Newbie need help with purchase decision

[95jersey]

I am brand new camper looking at my local dealers for 18-22ft travel trailers. There are quite a few options and floor plans to choose. Within my size and budget, the dealer has recommended KZ Sportsman Classics in multiple configurations. The prices are all within say a couple thousand of each other, so the decision is going to come down to floor plan and up or downsides to each. More specifically my questions is regarding fully enclosed vs. expandable fold outs.

Just for argument sake, let's keep the discussion down to these 3 options. Any brand I wind up with will probably have similar configurations. The 19BHS is fully enclosed and has a slide out to create more floor space. The other 2 have expandable fold outs to create more floor space.

19BHS


18RBT


20RBT


What are the pro/cons between the fully enclosed vs. going with the expandable fold outs? Is there more maintenance with one? Is one going to be colder/hotter than the other? Is sleeping in an fold out worse than sleeping in a fully enclosed? What are the gotcha's that I am missing?

The way I see it, the bunk version (enclosed) can sleep 4-5, the expandable about the same, but there is a little more arm/leg room in the expandable...but it may get cold/hot depending on outside weather??? I guess you would hear the rain more???

It seems to me that the fold out versions are the way to go for more living space, sleeping space, and a larger bathroom. Based on the price it seems you get a lot more value with the 20RBT. It also has a larger AC unit and full size fridge. Am I missing anything?

18RBT $13,250 +/-
19BHS $14,750 +/-
20RBT $16,280 +/-

[bid_time]

I will refute some of those claims based upon my experience with a Hybrid and a TT.
1. The mattress in my hybrid was thicker then the one I currently have in my TT. Neither one is a problem.
2. The mattress in my hybrid did not fold, it came in two sections.
3. The fold out beds in my hybrid did not leak (at least not in the 12 years I had it. Neither did the canvass.
4. We did not constantly move stuff around. Once it was set up on-site it was good to go. Just the same as my TT currently is.

I liked the fact that I had the space of a 30' in the weight and shape of a 25' package. But in the end when I got a new one I got a TT for several reasons like not wanting to sleep in a tent end anymore.

That's just me, your experience may vary.

[SoundGuy]

95jersey wrote:

HYBRID PRO

1) More sleeping space compared to bunks
2) More floor space not dedicated to bunks
3) Smaller overall storage space required.
4) Lighter than large TT of same sq. footage
5) Better ventilation

HYBRID CON

1) COLD/HOT in tent ends
2) Possible condensation/water issues
3) Longer set up/breakdown time
4) Increased maintenance concerns (canvas gets old or torn)
5) Need to dry out tents which takes 48 hours before storage
6) Noisy compared to TT
7) Security, someone could cut hole in canvas

Anything I may have missed?

A hybrid is more likely, some would say almost guaranteed, to eventually leak around the bunk end platforms, especially the front which is totally exposed while towing in the rain. :M

Without a walk around queen bed someone will always be climbing over someone else to get out of bed. :M

Hybrid mattresses are quite thin, uncomfortable, and usually fold for storage, meaning there's a "nice" crease into which either you or your bed partner will fall into. :M

Very little storage in a hybrid :M compared to a travel trailer with a front walk around queen bed that offers storage not only under the bed itself but in a large pass through storage compartment.

Believe it, in a hybrid you'll find yourselves constantly moving A to B so you can get to C, then moving A and B back to where they belong only to discover they're in the way of D. :M Been there, done that, won't do it again ... in our travel trailer everything we take along has a place of it's own to live. :B

I know, sounds really negative but hey, you did ask. :W

[95jersey]

I never posted how many people because I am not sure. My family is small, just my son and wife (3 total). But I will want to go on a weekend excursion with my riding buddies and it would be nice to fit 4-5 adults somewhat comfortably for a couple days. Again for just the 3 of us, the choice is easier, but I want to have room to fit a small group at times.

I don't want to store a 26-30 foot trailer. This is the only reason I am looking at the hybrid to get all the space of a larger unit, but with minimal long term storage requirements of a 21-22ft units. I can open the unit to dry it out without a problem

Also, I am on a budget, so only looking to spend $10-$16k. So far here are some of the pro's/cons I see, please add or correct any of my assumptions:

HYBRID PRO

1) More sleeping space compared to bunks
2) More floor space not dedicated to bunks
3) Smaller overall storage space required.
4) Lighter than large TT of same sq. footage
5) Better ventilation

HYBRID CON

1) COLD/HOT in tent ends
2) Possible condensation/water issues
3) Longer set up/breakdown time
4) Increased maintenance concerns (canvas gets old or torn)
5) Need to dry out tents which takes 48 hours before storage
6) Noisy compared to TT
7) Security, someone could cut hole in canvas

Anything I may have missed?

[Ranger431]

The bathroom is certainly a big plus, the storage and size of the central "room", better amenities, and the ability to "turtle" - using the TT portion of the HTC without setting up the bunks. For example at a rest area or even for a quick overnight stop (depending on # of people and sleeping arrangements).

[SoundGuy]

To the OP, thanks for the update as we now have a much clearer idea as to what you're looking for and why EXCEPT you haven't told us how many kids, which in turn means how many bunk beds? That's crucial information as that would then determine if a bunk bed trailer needs to have 2, 3, or 4. Since this is a trailer you say you want to keep for years and we now know you have a 3/4 ton for a TV I'd suggest you'd be far better off with a bunk bed travel trailer in the mid size 25' to 30' range as you'll definitely tire not only of especially small bunk beds in smaller models but also lack of interior space. We ourselves owned a triple bunk bed KZ Spree 240BH which these days is now a slide version 240BHS and in the Spree Connect line there's the double bunk bed 231BHS which also features especially large bunk beds. Since storage length at home seems to be a concern for you another option might be a rear glide trailer such as the Jayco X213 which offers a rear king slide bed for the adults and two bunk beds up front for kids ... except you haven't told us how many kids. :h As to camping at a race track I can't imagine any hybrid being suitable for this use as there's just no protection from outside noise penetrating into the camper as there is with a travel trailer.

[95jersey]

Jebby14 wrote:
Nothing wrong with a HTT if that's your thing I just don't get what makes them so much better than a pop up that sits down low and tows like its not even there. I would have a large high in pop up over my small tt any day if not for the wife

From my limited knowledge it looks like the private fully equip bathroom. I want to be able to take private showers after I come in muddy/dirty from riding.

[Jebby14]

Nothing wrong with a HTT if that's your thing I just don't get what makes them so much better than a pop up that sits down low and tows like its not even there. I would have a large high in pop up over my small tt any day if not for the wife

[Ranger431]

Our first RV was a HTT, a Jayco 232, which is very similar to the last floorplan you listed in the OP. To be honest, I loved my HTT. In the spring and fall months, when you open all of the tent side "windows" the airflow is incredible. I didn't have any issues with my AC keeping up in the summer either. It gets plenty warm in TN, and we've also taken trips to FL, GA and AL as well. The floor plan definitely gives you a more open feel than other TTs you posted. We moved to a bigger, more conventional bunkhouse when my wife got pregnant with our twins (went from 4 to 6 kids) and needed a lot more space and the carpeted area for the babies to crawl around was very nice. Forgot to add, if it does rain, there's nothing as relaxing as hearing it on canvas. Condensation was never a issue.

Some of the downsides mentioned on HTTs are real though. If you fold them up wet, you'll definitely want to set it up and dry it out when you get back - much the same that you would do on the awning on a regular TT. Set up takes a few minutes longer, but not more than 5 minutes per bunk. Someone mentioned that they aren't as secure, but neither are tents and people camp in those without issue. To be honest regular TTs aren't exactly bunkers either.

It may sound as if I gave HTTs more, and I wouldn't say that's true, they are just different. Regardless of which you choose, they key is that you'll be camping - and that's the fun part.

The only thing I haven't seen mentioned here is IF you end up spending time inside due to weather or whatever the only option that has any seating besides the dinette is the bottom one. But we all know the goal is to be outside, not in 😉

[95jersey]

Yeah tow vehicle is not an issue...RAM 2500. Let me be clear on space. I have the space to fit a larger trailer and/or extend the bunks as necessary, I just don't want something that large in my yard on a permanent basis. I have no need for a huge luxurious 30ft trailer anyway. I am trying to keep the square footage and cost down. Also regarding the tent ends, I have no preference as to camping style. I have no romantic notion about camping under the stars. This is purely about space/function/value.

Let me be clear on my intention of use...should have done this upfront. I am not an avid camper, I am an expert off road enduro motorcycle racer and travel the regional championship circuit and would rather stay at the track then in some dirty hotel room miles from the race site. Getting sick of that racket. For those that may be familiar, think GNCC (Grand National Cross Country Racing). There are hundreds of these things at the events. I would be traveling in the warmer months (April-Oct), never in winter. I would only stay at the event 1 or 2 days max.

Please don't recommend toy hauler, hate them...bike(s) will go in the back of the truck and I am fine with that. I will occasionally be bringing my family/friends so I'd rather have the sleeping/living amenities of a dedicated travel trailer vs. toy hauler. We will also plan weekend group rides in the mountains/forests.

I have not made up my mind on a hybrid contrary to what other posters think. The only thing that sways me in that direction is the extra sleeping space of the pop out vs. the very cramp bunk style sleeping. I tried those bunks and they are cramped at best (5'11"). Not a big deal to me, as I will be sleeping in the largest bed, but I would like to consider the comfort of the people I bring along (family/fellow racers).

I just don't want to buy a Hybrid and after a year be like...man this sucks...what a PITA. But being limited in size...is a 21' travel trailer with bunks going to be comfortable? You can kind of hang out in the pop out tents of the Hybrid and use them as living space, whereas the bunks are cramp and only usable for nighttime sleeping.

This will be the trailer I will use for many years, so I want to make the optimal decision out of the gate. Thanks to everyone, I appreciate your recommendations.

[SoundGuy]

scbwr wrote:
But....go with the 20RBT as long as you know you have the tow vehicle to handle it.

The tow vehicle is a question I notice the OP still doesn't want to talk about, saying only that considerations for a trailer in the 18' - 22' range (is that box or coupler to bumper? :h ) revolve around only "size and budget". Does that mean the TV in question is an F250 and therefore not a concern, or this very important issue is being ignored, or it's simply no one else's business even though he's asking for advice on a suitable trailer? Having been there I'm not a big fan of hybrids but if the OP is convinced that's what he wants I could recommend the triple bed Coachmen Freedom Express 21TQX as far superior to that KZ Sportsmen Classic 20RBT but there's not much point if it can't be towed. :R

[SoundGuy]

DutchmenSport wrote:
We were fortunate with our pop-up. I could push it into our garage, turn it slightly and then raise the top about 2 feet before the roof hit the garage door opener. I could then pull the bunk ends out, and let the tent material hang and dry. If it was still raining outside at home, sometimes it still took several days to completely dry. You don't want to close a camper up with wet fabric and keep it that way. Mold will form.

So at home, you really need the space to open the bunk ends all the way too. If you don't have the extra room, you are best to go with a hard sided trailer that fits your parking spot.

Couldn't agree more. Whenever we weren't camping I always kept our popup in my heated workshop and if I had to I could always raise the roof a couple of feet to dry out the tenting, 'though it did take a couple of days. Obviously once we "upgraded" to a hybrid it had to live outside on the driveway ... coupler to bumper it was only about 23' long and because it had only one hybrid bunk at the front (and none at the rear) it's overall length only extended by another foot or so when the bunk had to be deployed in order to dry out the tenting. However, if it had been a more conventional hybrid with beds at both ends I would have had to park it just that much further away from the garage to allow sufficient clearance for the rear bed to be lowered and at that point it wouldn't have been any different than parking a travel trailer measuring 27' coupler to bumper. Guess what? ... after 2 yrs of fooling around with the hybrid that's what we really upgraded to - our KZ Spree triple bunk bed travel trailer that measured 26' 9" coupler to bumper and had NO tenting. :B Couldn't pay me to ever own another hybrid. 😞

[scbwr]

We camped with our two boys in a popup for over 10 years and enjoyed a lot of camping trips. The biggest disadvantage to bunkends is having to dry them out if they get wet, but I just opened the camper up when I got home and let them dry!
Condensation is not really a problem...if you start to get some, just open a window or flap a little to allow some air exchange.

If you are trying to get a lot of sleeping space in a small trailer and also keep the weight down, I think the hybrid trailers are a great idea. I would have considered one if they had been around when we started camping in the popup trailer.

One advantage of a popup versus a hybrid is the lower profile for towing which means less resistance and better gas mileage.

But....go with the 20RBT as long as you know you have the tow vehicle to handle it.

[S_Bubba]

Your question may get a much different response in the Hybrid section of this forum. I had a Hybrid for 7 years and just now switched to a hard sided trailer. For me, it was great if you were going to be somewhere for several days, but it felt like a dread if it was only for a night or two It isn't just the expanding that I got tired of, it was the fact that your floor, couch, dinette all became holders for your bed rolls and what not. the trailer was packed full until it was expanded. What I did love was sleeping in the tent. It was cool and you could have all the cross breeze and fresh air you wanted. We used a matresspad heater and it kept us more than warm. Boon docking, I would go to bed first and warm up my wife's side of the bed for her.

[Bird_Freak]

I have done canvas and I'm done with it!

[APT]

Get a hybrid only if you want to sleep under canvas. Otherwise, see my comments on some of the compromises in this thread.