Newbie Q: Truck Tow Capabilities.

[ELCO5280]

My wife and I are interested in a '14 Keystone Passport 2650HB Grand Touring for our family of four. We will use this for 4-season camping traversing the Rockies frequently.

TT SPECS:
Specification Description
Length 29'4"
Width 8'0"
Height 10'7"
Hitch Weight 540 lbs
Dry Weight 4,876 lbs
Cargo Weight 2,324 lbs

TV: '02 Ram 1500 Quad 4X4 w/ Sport Tow Package SPECS:
Curb Weight: 5,260
GVWR: 6,650
Payload: 1,380
GCWR: 11,500
Max Trailer: 6,100
Axle: 3,900 Front/Rear Each

With truck fully loaded with 2 small kids, wife and I along with bikes, food and day gear we're around 6,000lbs GVWR and 640 lbs left of payload. I'm thinking if we added an additional 2klbs to the trailer making it 6900 lbs we'll have exceeded the GCWR 11,500 (Truck: 6000 + Trailer: 6900= 12,900) by 1,400lbs, as well as the payload (even at 10% GVWR 690 lbs) with the hitch weight.

Am I right on my understanding of tow capabilities? Do we need to be closer to a 4,000lbs TT?

This is pretty confusing and don't want to make the wrong choice for our TV.

[cjs2000]

What about the Livin' Lite 21BHS?

Box Length 21'-0" Dry Weight *3,499 lbs
Overall Length: 24'-0" Load Capacity: *1,501 lbs.
Overall Width: 7'-0" Hitch Weight: 250 lbs.
Height w/AC: 9'-8" Grey Water: 32 gal.
Tire Size: 14" Black Water: 28 gal.
GVWR: 5,000 lbs. Fresh Water: 30.5 gal.

[WoodGlue]

I'll second the vote for a Lance Travel Trailer. They're extremely well made trailers!! Now they also have a 2 year warranty which is rare for RV's. Lance also offers a 4 Season Package that is second to none!!

Lightweight yet manufactured for durability! Check out the Lance Factory Tour video in my signature. For a quicker overview, watch the #2 video.

WoodGlue

[ELCO5280]

APT wrote:

ELCO5280 wrote:
Thinking a full plan reassessment is in order.

That is a good idea. And it reinforces my idea to spend the money on capable/reliable TV over the TT. When then TV breaks, life sucks more than when something fails on a TT.

Full timing for 2-3 years means a few things. First, a lot more towing miles than the average weekender, like a 10k+ per year. A diesel will cost less in fuel while providing a more comfortable towing experience during that time. While not everyone needs a diesel including you, it seems to fit your use case better than most. Figure 12-13mpg towing a TT vs. 8-10mpg.

The average weekender RVing adds about 1000 pounds to dry RV weight based on a survey done here a couple years ago. Full timers take a lot more, like 2500-3000 pounds of extra gear. More stuff for longer durations of doing laundry, food, etc and more spare parts/tools. The TV has to be up to the task to handle the weight and storage space and the RV as well. A lightweight TT with 1500 pounds of payload is probably not going to handle that journey.

Take a look at motorhomes. They might serve your family better. Find one that can tow 5000 pounds and you can take a car with you for daily excursions.

Total truth never considered a motorhome but that could be an option too. We have a '98 Volvo S70 GLT that we love that we could pull behind.

[ELCO5280]

All good points. Our kids are small, but with their few favorite toys, books, clothes, etc I may be way off on the total weight of the truck and trailer.

I can see too much truck being an issue too. I don't want to pay $30k for a 2500HD diesel and not ever come close to maxing the thing out when I could have saved a bundle with a better suited vehicle.

We've looked at the 5th wheels and feel they're just too big for us. We really like the TT with the double slide (1 for seating/dinning and 1 for the bunk house) so if I could locate a proper TV for this type TT for $20k or less would be best for us I think.

I haven't purchased a vehicle since '02 so I have a lot of research to do. I'll look into the Ecoboost (do all F-150s come equipped with that?). Anyone else have an TV recommendations I should look in too?

[APT]

ELCO5280 wrote:
Thinking a full plan reassessment is in order.

That is a good idea. And it reinforces my idea to spend the money on capable/reliable TV over the TT. When then TV breaks, life sucks more than when something fails on a TT.

Full timing for 2-3 years means a few things. First, a lot more towing miles than the average weekender, like a 10k+ per year. A diesel will cost less in fuel while providing a more comfortable towing experience during that time. While not everyone needs a diesel including you, it seems to fit your use case better than most. Figure 12-13mpg towing a TT vs. 8-10mpg.

The average weekender RVing adds about 1000 pounds to dry RV weight based on a survey done here a couple years ago. Full timers take a lot more, like 2500-3000 pounds of extra gear. More stuff for longer durations of doing laundry, food, etc and more spare parts/tools. The TV has to be up to the task to handle the weight and storage space and the RV as well. A lightweight TT with 1500 pounds of payload is probably not going to handle that journey.

Take a look at motorhomes. They might serve your family better. Find one that can tow 5000 pounds and you can take a car with you for daily excursions.

[westend]

Full-timing with two kids will add 500+ lbs. in clothing, alone. You need to rethink your plan, I believe. You may find that a 5th wheel and a bigger tow vehicle aligns better with your living/traveling plans.

[brulaz]

If we were traveling full-time in a trailer with a couple of kids, we would get a truck with the biggest payload possible, so you can fill the bed with junk you'll need. AND get a trailer with a huge payload.

Full-timing, you are bound to carry more stuff than week-enders, and you do want to be reasonably comfortable. We only go to Florida for 2 months a year, and there's only two of us, but we're hauling around 2000# of stuff.

Somebody mentioned a 2011+ F150 Ecoboost. If you can find one with the HD Payload option, a 4x2 can have over 2600# payload if you leave off the fancy stuff. And you get the Ecoboost turbos for high elevation towing. A lot cheaper than a diesel both initially and ongoing.

[eddeeeee]

Even with just you and your family and an empty trailer with no gear in the truck, that will be taxing the truck because of age and altitude, but a thought about the math:

If you already loaded food, bikes and day gear in the truck, are you really going to add 2000# to the trailer? Are you sure that your body weight and the food, bikes and day gear all combine to only weigh 740#? We have 4 kids and we put around 1500# in our trailer and that includes our water, clothing,food and bikes. We weigh nearly 700# for the 6 of us, so with the tongue weight of the trailer, we can't put any gear in the truck. People often over or under estimate the weight of their gear which is why scales are important. If you are bumping up against your limits, you want to be very sure you know the actual weights. Of course, you don't want to have to buy too much truck ( there really is such a thing ) because you think you are taking 3000# of people and gear if you are only really taking #1500 because that costs money. You also don't want to think you are taking 3000# of people and gear if it is really 4000# ( coolers of beer on ice, a generator, firewood, water in the the tank, and extra water can add up fast ) Some people travel light while others accumulate tools, chairs, tables, mini appliances, and décor over the years. IF you are planning to FT it, you may bring a lot of creature comforts with you. Only you know how you travel. Make sure you know the actual weights of what you will be taking before buying a new truck, or too small a trailer.

[ELCO5280]

Thanks everyone for the input. Our TV is definitely a concern of mine since she already has 130k miles on the transmission. Since I bought her new I've towed a friends 6,500lbs boat about 4x but that was on flat hwy, so not sure how long she'll last towing FT over passes, etc..

Our intended use of the TT is to live in it FT and travel the country while our kids are still young. With that we didn't want to skimp on the TT since it would be our home. But, with the limited capabilities of our current TV being realized, it has greatly reduced our TT options.

Thinking a full plan reassessment is in order. Not sure I could find a 3/4 ton turbo diesel truck newer than '08 that would fit our budget without breaking the bank, but the search begins!

[APT]

Your 12 year old half ton will struggle. With only 6100 pound tow rating, I assume you have the 5.2L or 4.7L or 5.9L with poor axle ratio. You have 3 usable towing gears, two to accelerate and one to cruise. My 2003 F-150 was similar and it performed okay with 6500-ish pounds of TT - on the flat land of Michigan. You want to climb the Rockies?

Towing a high walled RV is hard work. It uses so much of the power to maintain 65mph due to aerodynamics, there is little left to handle hills. And then there is the power loss at higher altitudes of naturally aspirated engines.

I would switch the age of the TV/TT. Upgrade to a newer more capable truck. If it's a 3/4 ton, then you can tow nearly any TT you want. Example your truck is worth $10k and you are budgeting $20k for new TT. Spend $15k on a newer/more capable truck. The remaining $15k gives you a lot of options for a used TT without weight limits. Forced induction is preferred. That means 2011+ Ecoboost F150 or turbo diesel 3/4+ tons.

[Goldstalker]

Check out the Funfinder and Shadow Cruiser lines they are very lite.

[anaro]

honestly with a family of 4 and 640 lbs available payload that truck is going to struggle in the mountains towing any TT big enough for what you want. You need to be under 4000 lbs loaded to stay within your numbers and even then the truck will be taxed and struggling in the mountains. I think you need to be looking into pop ups or a beefier TV. Sorry but better to now in advance then after purchasing.

[brulaz]

You might look for a Lance 2185. But they're a California manufacturer and don't have dealers everywhere. They also tend to be pricey but are generally considered to be good quality.

But be careful with the dry weights. Last time I looked, Lance didn't include many standard options in the dry weight, so the stickered, out-of-the-factory weight could be 300-500# higher. The 2185 has a GVWR of 6000#, and you might get close to that once loaded up, even the though the published dry weight is only 3825#.

[ELCO5280]

Thanks for the welcome and reply downtheroad, much appreciated.

We're looking at the Keystone Passport 2300BH @ 4,300 dry weight and the Apex 238BH@ 4,100 DW.

Any other BH TT models we should check out that weigh around 4k lbs?

Thanks in advanced for all the help!