Pacific Coachworks - Warning to those looking...

[troyman]

Good evening all, just wanted to drop in and give some feedback regarding the Pacific Coachworks Northland 24IKS model, sold by CampingWorld. For those who have looked at other Pacific Coachworks dealers, this is also referred to as a Panther Widelite 24IKS at other dealerships.

So to point out the obvious, I'm new here and haven't posted much, but wanted to warn other potential buyers about this trailer before you are also stuck with a brand new trailer sitting at the dealership for repairs for the 5th time....

Background on our purchase, we had purchased a second-hand travel trailer a couple of years ago wanting to try out the experience. We had some excellent experiences in the trailer, but unfortunately our trailer had some extensive water damage over the last winter season, making it unusable to us. After realizing the damage, we started looking around at different trailers and really liked the way that the Pacific Coachworks 24IKS Northland was setup. We went in, did the whole walk-thru, looked at some other models and decided we wanted to go ahead with this one.

On April 23rd, 2016, we went down to our local CampingWorld dealer in Roseville, California and negotiated terms on a brand new 2016 24IKS Northland trailer. We were really excited to get the trailer, and they worked out setting our pick-up date for the following Tuesday afternoon - April 26th, 2016 so that we could take it out that upcoming weekend for our first trip.

So our first trip out, we had some issues, we really hoped it would be all of them in the one shot, but boy were we wrong....

First trip out issues:
* Shower pan - Oops, completely forgot to seal it at the factory and it dumped water all over the floor
* Bathroom wall trim - Apparently they were busy and just left some of the trim off in the bathroom, leaving an exposed pathway behind the shower for that water to leak down
* Galley sink - Clogged up, right away with clear water
* Bathroom sink - Oops, forgot to tighten that down or seal it to the counter
* Counter tops - Cut the trim super short, and just left it that way
* Stove top - Misaligned the stove and rammed it in anyway, bending the front panel
* Fresh water tank sensor - Not working right, shows half-full when the tank is bone dry
* Duct Tape! - Yes, seriously there is black duct tape used to seal the bottom of our slide out on the passenger side. About the third time we opened the slide, that duct tape started to peel off and gum up the floor... great.
* Door catch on front door - Latch the door, screws pull right out of the door and it lands in the dirt with a TINY breeze (like a person walking by)

So we figure, that's gotta be the worse thing that can happen, and we'll have it fixed in no time, and back on the road... no chance.

Dropped off 5/1 for first set of repairs, got it back on 5/5 with some fresh shower sealant and an explanation that Pacific Coachworks isn't authorizing the claim yet.

For Trip #2, we were on shore power this time and discovered even more problems. (Oh, for this trip, they were only able to reseal the bathroom shower and found a "kink" in the sink vent stack in the two weeks they had it sitting on their lot because Pacific Coachworks wouldn't authorize the repair work)

* Refrigerator will only stay cool if we're on propane, awesome!
* Toilet fill line - Flush the toilet, and it sprays the floor - awesome!
* Bathroom sink - Wash your hands, and it washes the entire cabinet and floor - more awesome!

Got back from our trip, emptied our gear and dropped it off at our local Camping World where it sat for nearly two weeks.

While they had it, they managed to get the toilet to stop spraying water on the floor. I then went and finally took it back because they weren't doing anything to get it repaired and we had a trip planned in a few days. So trailer half-@ss working, we went on our next trip... more awesome!!!

This time by the way, I reached out to Pacific Coachworks and talked to a gentleman named Fred Placka, who authorized the claim right there on the spot and was a pretty big help - that changes around trip #4 back to the dealer for repairs by the way.

Those keeping track, dropped it off on evening of 5/8/16, took it back on 5/18/16

First payment goes out on the trailer, with tons of problems - not happy.

Trip #3 - Trip to Pismo Beach for our anniversary, woohoo! (6/2 - 6/5)

Before we even leave, I try for two days to get the refrigerator to cool down on 110v, no-go, propane it is... Hopefully that's the only problem - yeah, right!!!

* First day into our trip, we notice a wet spot in the floor below the slide. We're on city power/water, so I figure great another leak and switch to the tank and pump. Look back by the city water line, there's water dripping down the trailer.

* Second day into our trip, seems like that pump is cycling an awful lot for not even using the water.. great. Water spot is much bigger...great. Leave the pump off and only use water as needed, then depressurize lines. Look at the back of the trailer, that water dripping down the trailer is now dripping, heavily from the undercarriage... ARE YOU KIDDING ME!?!?!?!

* We get everything packed up that night, to pull out at first light on day 3 - we were supposed to be there until that night, btw.

Additional miscellaneous issues:
* Door guides for the bedroom keep popping off
* Can see actual daylight through a corner of where the slide pops out on the bottom (about a 3" gap)
* City water connection is cockeyed
* Sealant around sinks is peeling off
* That awesome duct tape is just flailing in the wind now
* Darco material underneath is already frayed and falling off where the plumbing comes out from the bottom of the trailer
* Shower frame isn't actually sealed to the wall, don't put any pressure on the wall or frame, or there's a 1/4" gap to wash down the bathroom...

Drop it off on 6/6/16, picked up on 6/15. They traced the water leak to a fitting failure near the pump, fixed it and had drying fans pumping through it for two days. Everything has come in and pretty much all repairs are completed, yeah!!!

BIG NOTE >>>> I also let Fred Placka what is going on, as he told me to reach out if I have ANY other issues. He assures me he's doing what he can to expedite things.

Trip #4 - Father's day weekend trip!

Trip goes pretty much without a problem, at least in terms of this trailer. Low water pressure, all of the tank sensors now don't read right, galley sink won't drain again, refrigerator still only works right on propane - as to be expected, but otherwise working or in Pacific Coachworks terms "Usable".

Tilt the trailer up to hitch up, and wait... is that water coming out of the undercarriage AGAIN!?!?!?

Sure enough, water is pouring out from where the water lines connect to the hot water heater... this is unreal.... Back to the dealer we go! Dropped it off on 6/20

Trip #5 for 4th of July! - Oh wait, no trip, trailer isn't returned as promised on July 1st. No refund on spot, no trailer, no trip...

So I stop in from time to time, checking on it. Usually hasn't been queued up yet, or they tested and can't reproduce the problem. I think somewhere around July 20th, after a trip down to talk to my service advisor and sales manager (Second or third time now, I forget - but they know me on a first name basis now, and even gave me $100 gift card for my problems). They tell me, refrigerator has no problems, can't reproduce the water issue, trailer is fine. Waiting on the final parts to arrive to give it back. I explained a very specific sequence of events to make the refrigerator fail, and get a call the next day - no problems! I ask the service advisor to test one more time doing specifically this:

Do not use propane at all, just plug in the refrigerator and wait. In fact, wait for it to get "cold" and stick a gallon of milk in there. If you are willing to drink that milk the next day, I'll give you $100.

Next day get a call, they plugged it in and by the following morning it was something like 48* in the refrigerator, but cooling. By mid-afternoon it hot gotten warmer, I think he said about 60* and wasn't willing to try my milk challenge. 🙂

On the good side, third time in there for the fridge, they reproduced the problem and are performing the required tests by the manufacturer to replace/repair the fridge. Checked on them last week (late July by the way) and the parts on the way for the fridge, they're REBUILDING the vent stack because of a poor design where they used 1/2" PEX line for the vent. Oh, PEX line is generally used for water FEED lines, not vent lines by the way.

Funny thing about the galley vent stack, old Fred Placka even told me they use 1 3/4" PVC for their vent stack, and they must have mistyped or something when they originally fixed the problem when this first happened and the picture they submitted must have been wrong too.

Oh Fred Placka is no longer responding to me, I'm assuming because when I mentioned the trailer being a LEMON due to something like four or five water issues, that I must just be complaining or something - thanks for the help buddy! Oh even better, I'm working with Parts & Service Director down at Camping World now due to the frequency of problems - guess who won't return his calls? Fred Placka! Oh, btw, Fred Placka is the guy who authorizes repairs and deals with problems like this.

Today is August 1st, guess where my trailer is? Camping World still! Been there since June 20th! Payment #2 and payment #3 while it sits at camping world collecting dust, awesome!!!! Just got word the refrigerator part is installed, and pending a final test so I can pick'er up.

So for those keeping track as of 8/1 here's the tally:

Days owned: 97
Days of possession: 28
Days of repair: 69 (42 alone on current stint)

With any luck, I'll have it back by Wednesday or Thursday for a trip to Tahoe, where it will hopefully be finally a working new trailer.

In any case, hope it wards off other potential buyers of Pacific Coachwork products and sets some realistic expectations of how you'll get handled with your new purchases at Camping World!

Being a Good Sam site, I'll likely get booted off of here now, but I saved the text so I can post elsewhere 🙂

Happy Trails all!

For what it's worth, these guys have been helping as much as they possibly can and have been helpful as much as they can:

Alex? (I forget if that's right now) - Assistant Sales Manager, he's been very pleasant, very reasonable and helped to get some movement on it.

Skip Bunker - Service Advisor, putting up with me.

Two guys that I will blast:
Fred Placka - Pacific Coachworks Service Manager, gone like a fart in the wind...
CampingWorld of Sacramento Sales Manager - Lost his information, but hey buddy still waiting for that callback to discuss the problems since... since June!

[lawduck]

We bought an Econ 20RLS made by Pacific Coachworks (2014, I think) and, knock on wood, it has been relatively trouble free. We've actually really enjoyed it a lot and it is an easy tow with our Jeep Grand Cherokee. I guess not all of their stuff is bad, although I feel bad for the rotten luck OP has had.

[4Kellys]

So sorry you're having all those problems, we looked at the Northland stuff at CW and weren't impressed. We bought a Wind River (Outdoors RV) at Pan Pacific and are happy so far. I have a great RV guy for your warranty work, Eric's Mobile RV repair in Citrus Heights. He used to build custom busses and can work on all types of RV's. He did all our extended warranty work when we had our 40' DP!

[hohenwald48]

2oldman wrote:

braindead0 wrote:
RV's are complicated, manufacturers seem to get away with poor quality because people keep buying them anyway.

Yep, and then complain like heck.

Most folks, especially in their early RV career, tend to buy floor plans and price with no regard for quality. I think they tend to think an RV is like a car but that couldn't be further from the truth. I've seen many on here say they would gladly pay a premium price for a quality trailer but I don't believe it. If that was the case all the cut-rate manufacturers and dealers would have been out of business years ago. Manufacturers build what sells.

Unfortunately, if you purchase an RV you will need to be fairly handy or you'll be dragging it back to the dealer for every little thing that needs attention. Of course when you get to the dealer your RV will go to the back of the line and have to sit around for days before anyone gets a chance to look at it.

RV warranties aren't really of much value. Connecting a trailer, dragging it to the dealer, leaving it for a week, going back and reconnecting and dragging it back home is a lot of work because of a simple plumbing leak or other minor repair. It's a lot easier to just crawl in there and fix the leak. 30 minutes and you're done.

[bigavery2005]

We also bought a 2015 pacific coachworks F305FS toy hauler on July 30,15 and noted upon taking possession of it needed warranty work for some small issues since it was from a RV show. Drawer rails broke and sink not sealed completely. Couldn't get it in to the Authorized dealer per there PCW web site which is where we bought it (Pual Everett's RV). First weekend out bedroom slide would not slide back all the way back in leaving a 3" gap and the black tank would not seal. So I didn't want to wait till September 12th,2015 so go Fred Placka to approve campers world to address the black tank issue, took Fred a month to approve the work so there it sat. Then took it over to Paul Everett's for slide and several other things now wrong. Generator wouldn't start just clicked ( we opted. for 160 watt solar panels) told the battery was only a 500CC amp REFURBISHED battery told me I needed 2 deep cycle batteries. When I reminded that they are the ones who installed the batteries in the PDI they replaced them free with new deep cycle ones. Now shower is leaking. the trailer has sat for a total of 6 months in warranty claims but every time I follow up we get told PCW hasn't sent the parts or sent the wrong ones. Fred Placka quit dealing with us and we now deal with Jeff Daily general manager. To this date slide out is still not fixed shower was finally replaced after 11 months, When you pay a payment every month you want to use what your paying for. Well we just made a 2200 mile round trip to Sturgis Biker rally caring my 2 custom bikes for the show. When we pulled into the RV park our fiberglass siding has a huge split from the unsealed slide out to the fifth wheal king pin hitch and the metal pan under that section also blew down onto the bed rail of my truck. I contacted PCW about my issues and this is what has happened the very next morning. I get a email back stating your warranty ended yesterday, I explained this is all the same warranty things that we have been waiting for YOUR authorized service provider to fix, we get told then it will fall under that warranty but they will not Authorize any work to be done endless it is being serviced by there manufacturing plant in southern California. They agreed to come get it from our house from outside of Seattle. GREAT!!! Oh yeah at our cost... Crappy. So I can't get it fixed at our Authorized dealer and get warranty pay for it but if I pay for it to go to California they will fix it. Then says he will pay for the trip there and we pay for it to go back. We emailed stating absolutely I will NOT spend 1 dime for this it is under the warranty. I Stated that the trailer may not even make it home in its current condition and he will be held liable if my bikes are damaged. Well we cut our trip short to get home for there transport company with alot of duct tape and stainless screws. They have now had our trailer for 2 weeks and we can't get a word from them about anything it is just silent. We did get a email stating he did receive it so we are safe there. We have now contacted a lawyer and are working out a plan to have them buy back this piece of **** plus give us our deposit back. Or give us a brand new on with a new warranty.
Would like to know if anyone has the manufacture buy their trailer back by the manufacture? Our attorney says it happens more than people know about and they always want things kept quite. Most people once they get things resolved they quit posting on these sites. I will keep everyone up to date but would like to know if anyone else has had to deal with them and their lawyer? Private message me if you want to keep it from being public

[troyman]

Just stopped by there to grab a few documents I left in the trailer. They've got the plumbing in the shower torn down and may have found a source of the grey water leakage. Damage is done though, and the floor and cabinets are already water damaged.

[troyman]

Just an update on the rolling turd. We took it up to Lake Tahoe last weekend after everything was "fixed". They built a wooden baffle to help with air flow over the cooling fins, worked for about the first half day then the fridge started getting warm again, back to propane again...

Water leaks again. The pump at some point during the first night started leaking at a fitting again. I walked into the bathroom to find water pooled up all over the floor, and pouring out of the cabinet. Unscrewed the access panel and the pump was spraying me with water. Cabinet is damaged, floor is damaged.

Stereo just stopped working altogether, checked fuses, breakers, nothing - just doesn't work anymore

Grey water leaks. Reported this last time, but when we went to hook up noticed some water leaking out of the trailer in the back where the hot water lines are coming through the undercoating. Looked closer and it was coming out of everywhere there was an opening in the bottom of the trailer. We tiled the trailer up to connect and it started POURING out from everywhere.

So trailer is back in for repairs. Current count - 114 days of ownership, 72 days of repair. Headed down to Camping World of Sacramento this morning to get my work order history, and talking to an attorney today.

[troyman]

Thanks for the heads up! The main frame is steel, but the enclosed portion is supposed to be all aluminum. I'll definitely pop the lights out when I get it back and check. That isn't just poor quality, that is flat out stupid dangerous... wow.

[braindead0]

troyman wrote:
....
Once it's all sorted out, it will be a great travel trailer, but knowing what we know now, we would have gone with another manufacturer AND dealer. This was actually advertised as one of their more premium packages in a travel trailer too

If your TT is one with an aluminum frame, I'd recommend pulling the clearance/brake/tail lights just to make sure that wires aren't being run through sharp/ragged holes. Top left rear clearance light on ours was the only point I could find where the wires were run through a hole drilled in the frame, and it was a mess.. Luckily I noticed the short/blown fuse before going on a trip. That was the only dangerous problem I found, I advised the QA manager at their plant of the problems I found.. maybe they paid attention.

[troyman]

braindead0 wrote:
Our TT is a PCW. It had its share of problems, the factory QA is not very good. They drilled through the aluminum framing to run wires and didn't clean up the hole at all. 'Specs subject to change' included a 12 gallon black tank that held 6 gallons (and that's including 3' of 3" pipe!). Side vent access doors for fridge were held in place by the bare minimum of acrylic caulk which proceeded to fall apart first year.. There were other issues that I fixed, mostly minor.

All that being said, not a bad trailer for the price. And now that I've fixed the problems (including upgrading to a 25gallon black tank 😉 it's a good solid trailer.

RV's are complicated, manufacturers seem to get away with poor quality because people keep buying them anyway.

Yeah, this is my biggest complaint - the complete and total lack of any kind of quality assurance checks or tests. I haven't even mentioned the small things that drive me nuts like the lights installed crooked over the bed and various trim pieces that look like they were aligned and installed by a drunk person, or that we spent an hour cleaning the ceiling of greasy hand prints upon delivery...

Once it's all sorted out, it will be a great travel trailer, but knowing what we know now, we would have gone with another manufacturer AND dealer. This was actually advertised as one of their more premium packages in a travel trailer too

[troyman]

2oldman wrote:
This probably belongs in Camping world forum. Did you choose this particular brand based on price?

No, we actually went with it because of the layout and size. It matched everything we were looking for within the size we were wanting to stay within. It's generally just myself, my wife and a dog or two that go on our trips, so the floor space was great and being able to close off the bedroom with actual doors, and a true Queen size bed in a 24' trailer was what we were looking for.

[2oldman]

braindead0 wrote:
RV's are complicated, manufacturers seem to get away with poor quality because people keep buying them anyway.

Yep, and then complain like heck.

[braindead0]

Our TT is a PCW. It had its share of problems, the factory QA is not very good. They drilled through the aluminum framing to run wires and didn't clean up the hole at all. 'Specs subject to change' included a 12 gallon black tank that held 6 gallons (and that's including 3' of 3" pipe!). Side vent access doors for fridge were held in place by the bare minimum of acrylic caulk which proceeded to fall apart first year.. There were other issues that I fixed, mostly minor.

All that being said, not a bad trailer for the price. And now that I've fixed the problems (including upgrading to a 25gallon black tank 😉 it's a good solid trailer.

RV's are complicated, manufacturers seem to get away with poor quality because people keep buying them anyway.

[jmtandem]

This certainly is not the first post on RV.net where Camping World did not do their due diligence in getting an RV ready for the customer by making sure everything works just right and then after the sale not being able to fix stuff in a timely manner. Incredible that they have any customers. Also, I think your warning is misplaced. It should be "Camping World-Warning to those looking..."
There are many happy PCW owners.

[dodge_guy]

Sorry to say, but it's time to dump the trailer and buy something else! Anyone that buys an RV should expect to have to fix a few things.

I would go with one of the more popular manuf. at least they will not question any repairs!