Purchasing Warped Roof 1997 Bigfoot 2500 9’6”?

[stupendous_man]

Looking to purchase this 1997 Bigfoot 2500 9’6”, and everything looks good except for the front section of the roof. It appears to be sagging in front and to the side of the bedroom skylight. Rainwater is pooling in front of the skylight as well.

Is this evidence of water damage? I’ve heard on other forums that pooling rainwater is a bad sign. The rubber siding on the windows looks like it’s starting to pull away as well.
I tried to highlight the areas of concern in the attached photos.

The asking price is $10,200. Thank you for any advice.

[notsobigjoe]

StirCrazy wrote:

Geo*Boy wrote:
On page 5 the OP inspected the camper and found extensive water damage and moved on. Why is this still being discussed?:h

because some questions got asked and I saw somthing different at the factroy than what people were telling me and its pretty informative and interesting to some people.

I think any info passed on is worth talking about. many times I have looked up mods and projects that I've been doing on this sight. they are always informative and do help. even trivial and not on subject could be very helpful to one and not the other.

[StirCrazy]

Geo*Boy wrote:
On page 5 the OP inspected the camper and found extensive water damage and moved on. Why is this still being discussed?:h

because some questions got asked and I saw somthing different at the factroy than what people were telling me and its pretty informative and interesting to some people.

[StirCrazy]

HMS Beagle wrote:
I'll stick to my story: they are a sandwich, not just fiberglass structure, and the interior paneling is put in in the mold. Take a look at this recent article in Truck Camper Magazine, in particular scroll down to the photo of the interior paneling being installed in the mold. Also several photos of top and bottom halves being pulled from the mold, with paneling already installed. When I ordered mine from the factory in 1996 I was specifically told this is how it was done and it appears still is. They use a contact adhesive and pound it with rubber mallets to ensure contact. You cannot do that out of the mold. There are other pictures showing them assembling top and bottom with paneling in place.

If you think the fiberglass is the only structure, pull the paneling, foam, and wood stiffening out of the roof of one and walk across it. I guarantee you will think again.


From TC Magazine:

now thats real weird, they were doing that but out of the mold but different. they placed all the foam in first then sprayed it and placed the interior wall surface in. they do have a big press that can make full lamanated panels but the guy said it hasn't been used since before they reopened and if I remember right it has somthing to do with them using cnc cut foam kits. what I saw was them placing foam jigsaw puzzel pieces in then like I said it was sprayed with adhesive and the wood placed in. I'll definatly have to ask them about it when I go in next month, maybe they just needed the mold right away to start another? they are way behind.

Steve

[Bedlam]

Because there is much misunderstanding on fiberglass constructed campers, this thread will be a resource to others owning or wanting to buy one.

[Geo_Boy]

On page 5 the OP inspected the camper and found extensive water damage and moved on. Why is this still being discussed?:h

[HMS_Beagle]

One of my great complaints with Bigfoot and Northern is they build a watertight shell and then drill a million holes in it. The problem is they are constrained by the commercially available roof hatches, refer vents, plumbing vents, etc. But they do go the extra mile and drill a hundred more holes for ladders, racks, awnings, etc.

What I would like to see is a molded, slightly raised flat or plinth at the locations of the hatches, skylights, and refer vents. Just an inch rise would eliminate a huge amount of leaks due to the fact that water has run downhill from the beginning of time and is likely to continue. Having it flat would accommodate the flat flange of these hatches and vents without having to either distort them, or pile up a ridiculous thickness of sealant. This would be only a one time cost hit to the mold, and free after that.

For smaller penetrations like plumbing vents they should glue in a short fiberglass spigot that the cheap plastic vent cover goes over (I've described retrofitting this in another thread). These would not leak, ever, and would require no sealing or resealing. Racks and ladders could also have a small plinth.

Their reticence to do this may be the different floor plans offered (sharing the same roof mold) means the location of some of these things move around. However they could also be bonded on secondarily using a separate molding, slightly more costly but at the same time replacing the other necessary reinforcing.

It would not take that much to improve the watertightness of the roof to the point that resealing was rarely necessary (if ever), at very modest cost increase. If they offered a "leak proof" roof at an option price of $500 on a $50K camper, what do you think the uptake would be? At $500 they'd be making much more on that option than the rest of the camper.

[notsobigjoe]

HMS Beagle wrote:
I'll stick to my story: they are a sandwich, not just fiberglass structure, and the interior paneling is put in in the mold. Take a look at this recent article in Truck Camper Magazine, in particular scroll down to the photo of the interior paneling being installed in the mold. Also several photos of top and bottom halves being pulled from the mold, with paneling already installed. When I ordered mine from the factory in 1996 I was specifically told this is how it was done and it appears still is. They use a contact adhesive and pound it with rubber mallets to ensure contact. You cannot do that out of the mold. There are other pictures showing them assembling top and bottom with paneling in place.

If you think the fiberglass is the only structure, pull the paneling, foam, and wood stiffening out of the roof of one and walk across it. I guarantee you will think again.


From TC Magazine:

Very interesting and informative. I wonder if the designer just took everything from the roof and put them on the side if that would be a leak-less model? Guys I love threads like these, nothing but info, good info!
Joe

[HMS_Beagle]

One thing I did notice in that article is the use of aluminum honeycomb, apparently for some high stress areas. This must be a new innovation, there was none in any of my campers. That would be a much better core for the whole thing if you could get them to do it.

[HMS_Beagle]

I'll stick to my story: they are a sandwich, not just fiberglass structure, and the interior paneling is put in in the mold. Take a look at this recent article in Truck Camper Magazine, in particular scroll down to the photo of the interior paneling being installed in the mold. Also several photos of top and bottom halves being pulled from the mold, with paneling already installed. When I ordered mine from the factory in 1996 I was specifically told this is how it was done and it appears still is. They use a contact adhesive and pound it with rubber mallets to ensure contact. You cannot do that out of the mold. There are other pictures showing them assembling top and bottom with paneling in place.

If you think the fiberglass is the only structure, pull the paneling, foam, and wood stiffening out of the roof of one and walk across it. I guarantee you will think again.


From TC Magazine:

[StirCrazy]

notsobigjoe wrote:

StirCrazy wrote:

HMS Beagle wrote:
I have owned three Bigfeet: one built in 1986, one in 1996, and one in 2008. They were all built the same way*.

Yes, the interior walls are screwed to the sandwich shell, but the sandwich shell has the foam bonded in and paneling bonded to that before it is taken from the mold. The fiberglass by itself is too floppy to do that afterwards.

when I was there the only thing added to it while it was in the mold was the wood that got glassed in like at the jack mounting places, anchor points for interior finishings, and around the whole edge to enable the shels to be fastened togeather. it was a 4 pint lift out of the mold then onto a roaling bed which is where they used an adhesive glue to atach the cnc cut foam panels. I would imagin thluan is just atached to the wood mounting places and not nessasarly be part of any bonded system as it needs to be easy to replace and all the interior luan was installed before the top half was lowered into place so what you saw was a bottom shell with walls and a celing all built waiting for the top fiberglass and foam to be dropped down on top of it. struck me kinda funny, but made sence when I thought about it

maybe there building different now, might be the switch to a choped glass process much faster and easier then using glass cloth to build, who knows

Steve

Steve, I'm asking because I do not know. Is the shell molded at different thicknesses in the parts that secure everything both inside and outside, such as the corners for the jacks and where all the interior attachments are made or is it laid as one thickness through out? I ask because when I got out of the Navy in 85 I went to work at a Bayliner dealership in Endicott NY. This was Bayliner good years but with one outstanding problem. The floors and the stringers would literally rot very quickly because of the poor molding techniques. This was later fixed by pouring a thicker area around the flex joints to keep the water out. It worked. Curious if there are any similarities...
Joe

they were spraying a roof and a floor section while I was there. the gel coat is the same thikness throughout, and they they are using a chop gun and the way he explained it is it is all the same thickness for structural stength then after they get that done they place the wood around the seem and the rest of the anchor points and spray them in. when the one guy was spraying the shell, he kept using a poker to look at the thickness and he did that all over the place so it looks like ots all the same to me. and the cured one they pulled out of the mold from the 4 corners didn't flex at all. I the owner mentioned by using the fiberglass chop instead of the old matt and resin method as it is stronger, faster, and cheeper. I dodn't ask him if they used to tuse mat and resin, next time I go down there ill ask him. the wife wants to see the process before we decide which camper to buy. have it narrowed down to bigfoot, northern light, or adventurer.

Steve

[notsobigjoe]

StirCrazy wrote:

HMS Beagle wrote:
I have owned three Bigfeet: one built in 1986, one in 1996, and one in 2008. They were all built the same way*.

Yes, the interior walls are screwed to the sandwich shell, but the sandwich shell has the foam bonded in and paneling bonded to that before it is taken from the mold. The fiberglass by itself is too floppy to do that afterwards.

when I was there the only thing added to it while it was in the mold was the wood that got glassed in like at the jack mounting places, anchor points for interior finishings, and around the whole edge to enable the shels to be fastened togeather. it was a 4 pint lift out of the mold then onto a roaling bed which is where they used an adhesive glue to atach the cnc cut foam panels. I would imagin thluan is just atached to the wood mounting places and not nessasarly be part of any bonded system as it needs to be easy to replace and all the interior luan was installed before the top half was lowered into place so what you saw was a bottom shell with walls and a celing all built waiting for the top fiberglass and foam to be dropped down on top of it. struck me kinda funny, but made sence when I thought about it

maybe there building different now, might be the switch to a choped glass process much faster and easier then using glass cloth to build, who knows

Steve

Steve, I'm asking because I do not know. Is the shell molded at different thicknesses in the parts that secure everything both inside and outside, such as the corners for the jacks and where all the interior attachments are made or is it laid as one thickness through out? I ask because when I got out of the Navy in 85 I went to work at a Bayliner dealership in Endicott NY. This was Bayliner good years but with one outstanding problem. The floors and the stringers would literally rot very quickly because of the poor molding techniques. This was later fixed by pouring a thicker area around the flex joints to keep the water out. It worked. Curious if there are any similarities...
Joe

[StirCrazy]

HMS Beagle wrote:
I have owned three Bigfeet: one built in 1986, one in 1996, and one in 2008. They were all built the same way*.

Yes, the interior walls are screwed to the sandwich shell, but the sandwich shell has the foam bonded in and paneling bonded to that before it is taken from the mold. The fiberglass by itself is too floppy to do that afterwards.

when I was there the only thing added to it while it was in the mold was the wood that got glassed in like at the jack mounting places, anchor points for interior finishings, and around the whole edge to enable the shels to be fastened togeather. it was a 4 pint lift out of the mold then onto a roaling bed which is where they used an adhesive glue to atach the cnc cut foam panels. I would imagin thluan is just atached to the wood mounting places and not nessasarly be part of any bonded system as it needs to be easy to replace and all the interior luan was installed before the top half was lowered into place so what you saw was a bottom shell with walls and a celing all built waiting for the top fiberglass and foam to be dropped down on top of it. struck me kinda funny, but made sence when I thought about it

maybe there building different now, might be the switch to a choped glass process much faster and easier then using glass cloth to build, who knows

Steve

[covered_wagon]

Thank you HMS Beagle for helping to inform me on the core vs solid. I appreciate that.

[mbloof]

The 'structure' IS the glass+foam+luanne sandwinch.

While complete rebuilds are few and far between there are examples of both NL and BF being "gutted" of everything but the shell (glass+foam+luanne) and rebuilt/remodeled.

These examples did not self destruct or collapse upon themselves.


- Mark0.