Roof Replacement

[jcarter1976]

I am gearing up to replace the roof on my 40’ Salem and I have been advised not to replace the roof vents. The logic being that the fewer penetrations one has in their roof, the fewer leaks one may encounter in the future.
I get the rationale but I’m dubious about not having any upward ventilation. Does anyone have any experience with an un-ventilated RV?

[Gdetrailer]

lane hog wrote:
Dunno... $2K for good skin and frame plus appliances doesn't sound too bad to me. A replacement door alone runs about $500...

The problem is you might have a "good skin" but all of the wood that the "good skin" is supposed to be attached to falls apart due to rot.

Understanding basic RV construction and the order they are put together can make a world of difference as to how you approach the repairs.

Conventional tin builds the interior paneling is attached to the wall studs on a flat table in the factory with glue and thousands of staples.

Walls are placed on the floor and roof is set on top of the walls, wiring is run then insulation and then the tin is applied last.

All cabinets and interior walls are put in place before the exterior siding is put on..

Because it is built in this fashion, repairing from inside will result in damaging cabinets and interior walls when removing..

If I ever do another RV, the plan is to remove all good stuff like doors, windows and appliances then cut the bolts holding the shell in place, lift and discard the shell and start from scratch.

As far as doors, yeah, the second TT both doors were completely shot, there was nothing left to salvage.. I ended up fabbing up completely new doors from scratch as there was no way I was putting $1000 in doors on a trailer worth scrap value of $700..

Even today, because of the age of the trailer per the title date, I would have difficult time getting much more than $1K.. Folks like buying old trailers to use for hunting camps and don't care if they are rotted out or rebuilt, they only want the cheapest shelter they can find.

Selling the first one took time as no one really wanted to pay more than $800 for a 20+ yr old trailer even if it was fixed up nicely..

I don't fix and flip, wasn't planning to sell the first one but as family grew, the old one was less than ideal for us.

[lane_hog]

Dunno... $2K for good skin and frame plus appliances doesn't sound too bad to me. A replacement door alone runs about $500...

[Gdetrailer]

lane hog wrote:
The renovation looks great. Looks like you kept the original motif and character with the paneling.

Not for nothing, but you bought a 20 year old trailer... what were you expecting?

I'd expect anything older than 15 years old that wasn't either an Airstream or an Avion i.e. all-aluminum to be a potential gut and rebuild...

First RV, dove in not expecting a grand hotel on wheels but also not expecting to find no wood left..

Once I smartened up and learned what signs of hidden rot look like my next purchase I paid considerably less for knowing that it was a total gut job up front.

First one cost $2K, put additional $2K in materials in it, used it for 6 yrs, sold it for $2K.. Much less loss of money than buying a $20K new RV then selling it in 6 yrs getting only $15K out of it.. Not to mention, paid cash, no interest paid..

Second and current trailer paid $700 for a 25 yr old unit, put $3500 in materials, all in cash and now going on 12yrs, it owes me nothing.. Much better than paying $20K plus interest..

Not for the faint of heart, but I don't like giving any more money to the banker than I have too.. As of yet, I have never met a poor broke bank manager..

[lane_hog]

The renovation looks great. Looks like you kept the original motif and character with the paneling.

Not for nothing, but you bought a 20 year old trailer... what were you expecting?

I'd expect anything older than 15 years old that wasn't either an Airstream or an Avion i.e. all-aluminum to be a potential gut and rebuild...

[Gdetrailer]

valhalla360 wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
Example of what I am talking about..



This damage was not caused by roof vents, it was caused by..



Which is the trim..

The caulking under that trim had gotten hard and cracked and the previous owner was too lazy to remove the trim and replace the caulking so they used everyones favorite fix in a tube..

Silicone..

The silicone didn't fix the issue and kept on leaking until I bought the trailer and when I stripped back the rotted paneling it was leaking like a sieve when it rained..

Looks like a 40yr old trailer...lots of newer ones rot out within 10-20yrs.

Trailer was only 20 yrs old when I bought it in that condition.

That was good looking compared to other well hidden rotten spots, had to destroy and remove all upper kitchen cabinets along with the upper bunk bed.

Replaced nearly every roof truss, remove and sister up quite a few wall studs, removed all the poor attempts to repair the damage by previous owner. Replaced most of the front wall studs as they were pretty well rotted out.

New ceiling panels, new paneling all around, new upper cabinets, new couch/bed..

Had to build all newer upper cabinets from scratch and the upper bunk didn't get put back in.

I was so mad and upset That I paid nearly $2K for a half rotted out shell. Once I discovered how major the damage was I didn't bother taking many pictures of the mess was just too upset and needed to make things right.

None of the damage was caused by roof vents, fridge vent or black and grey tank vents.. ALL the damage was cause by nearly 100 little tiny screws that held all the roof trim on.

Some inside pix after all repairs were done..

[valhalla360]

Gdetrailer wrote:
Example of what I am talking about..



This damage was not caused by roof vents, it was caused by..



Which is the trim..

The caulking under that trim had gotten hard and cracked and the previous owner was too lazy to remove the trim and replace the caulking so they used everyones favorite fix in a tube..

Silicone..

The silicone didn't fix the issue and kept on leaking until I bought the trailer and when I stripped back the rotted paneling it was leaking like a sieve when it rained..

Looks like a 40yr old trailer...lots of newer ones rot out within 10-20yrs.

[valhalla360]

Gdetrailer wrote:

:R

You do realize the part of my post you snipped was a joke?

Even with zero roof penetrations you have something like 100 holes in the roof membrane, right?

The roofing material folds down over the side wall, then the trim strip is applied over the roofing material on the side wall..

That is a potential leak that is real and that is where most of the water infiltration happens.. You have at least 40 holes on each side of the roof, not to mention all the holes from the end trim strips..

The cold hard reality with RVs you need to constantly check the caulking on a regular schedule, replace when caulking ages.

It is called "PMs" or Preventative Maintenance.

So in reality, removing all of the holes on top of the roof nets you zero reduction in potential leaks. In fact, I would rather have a leak show up at a roof vent instead of having a hidden leak on the sidewall trim.. That side wall trim can leak for yrs and you will never know it until it pools up and rots out the floor far, far away from the real source of the leak at the trim.

Seen considerable rot damage on both of the trailers I have rehabbed that came from leaks on the side wall trim. Just because that trim has a vinyl cover in place covering the screws, it doesn't mean that water can't leak through. That trim uses and depends on the same butyl rubber caulking and it fails after a couple of yrs.

Absolutely understood, you were joking....that was the point. You made a joke not realizing it would be a great idea.

Yes, you still have to maintain the edges but you can roll those over the exterior where they are more easily visible (think utility trailers). It's easy to claim, you do great maintenance, so it's not an issue but obviously, it is an issue.

[lane_hog]

Seems silly not to have some natural ventilation via convection, but to each their own. If you're worried about the leaks, just get a $25 Camco vent cover and caulk it along all four sides.

[Gdetrailer]

gbopp wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
Using that "logic" one would want to get rid of the fridge vent, the A/C unit(s) and the black and grey tank vents, then you have zero holes to deal with..

In the future when we have all electric, self driving RV's there will be no need for windshields. That will be even less to leak. :C

And with no windows it will contain your lifeless body when it comes to a sudden stop as the computer operated vehicle collides with an immovable object its sensors failed to see :E

[gbopp]

Gdetrailer wrote:
Using that "logic" one would want to get rid of the fridge vent, the A/C unit(s) and the black and grey tank vents, then you have zero holes to deal with..

In the future when we have all electric, self driving RV's there will be no need for windshields. That will be even less to leak. :C

[Gdetrailer]

Example of what I am talking about..



This damage was not caused by roof vents, it was caused by..



Which is the trim..

The caulking under that trim had gotten hard and cracked and the previous owner was too lazy to remove the trim and replace the caulking so they used everyones favorite fix in a tube..

Silicone..

The silicone didn't fix the issue and kept on leaking until I bought the trailer and when I stripped back the rotted paneling it was leaking like a sieve when it rained..

[Gdetrailer]

B-n-B wrote:
I would say it has less to do with the holes in the roof (unavoidable), and more to do with the proper maintenance and sealing of said holes.

Correct.

Proper maintenance is key, doing maintenance on a regular schedule by removing and replacing old dried out cracked caulking and replacing with new fresh caulking will go a long way in keeping your RV leak free..

Not eliminating holes from roof vent in the roof.

Either do the routine maintenance yourself or hire it out, should be looked over at a minimum of once per yr.

[B-n-B]

I would say it has less to do with the holes in the roof (unavoidable), and more to do with the proper maintenance and sealing of said holes.

[Gdetrailer]

valhalla360 wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:
Using that "logic" one would want to get rid of the fridge vent, the A/C unit(s) and the black and grey tank vents, then you have zero holes to deal with.

That would be awesome and would result in trailers that last much longer.

It's nice to say if you are scrupulous about sealing it's not an issue...but reality is a large percentage of RVs go to the junk yard due to leaks, so clearly it is a problem.

Retrofitting an existing RV would be difficult as you would need to figure alternatives out. But if you have good mood lighting already, skipping some or all of the roof vents would not be a bad option.

For new construction, it's not nearly as bad:
- Skip the vents and skylights and add LED strips around the ceiling. Actually a lot of RVs have already done the LED thing and with power consumption so low, it's really not an issue running them to compensate for the lost natural light.
- Fridge...they are already going there with 12v fridges that require no external ventilation becoming the new standard.
- Air/con units could do minisplit with the condenser on the rear bumper and no roof penetrations.
- Tank Vents could be done with small wall mounted outlets.
- A frosted side window in the bathroom, potentially with a fan would handle shower humidity.

None of this would be particularly expensive to implement on a new production unit.

Side benefits:
- Slightly lower profile to get under low bridges/tree limbs.
- Maybe a touch more aerodynamic for better fuel economy.
- It would make one piece fiberglass or aluminum roofs a cheaper option which would again increase long term water tightness.

:R

You do realize the part of my post you snipped was a joke?

Even with zero roof penetrations you have something like 100 holes in the roof membrane, right?

The roofing material folds down over the side wall, then the trim strip is applied over the roofing material on the side wall..

That is a potential leak that is real and that is where most of the water infiltration happens.. You have at least 40 holes on each side of the roof, not to mention all the holes from the end trim strips..

The cold hard reality with RVs you need to constantly check the caulking on a regular schedule, replace when caulking ages.

It is called "PMs" or Preventative Maintenance.

So in reality, removing all of the holes on top of the roof nets you zero reduction in potential leaks. In fact, I would rather have a leak show up at a roof vent instead of having a hidden leak on the sidewall trim.. That side wall trim can leak for yrs and you will never know it until it pools up and rots out the floor far, far away from the real source of the leak at the trim.

Seen considerable rot damage on both of the trailers I have rehabbed that came from leaks on the side wall trim. Just because that trim has a vinyl cover in place covering the screws, it doesn't mean that water can't leak through. That trim uses and depends on the same butyl rubber caulking and it fails after a couple of yrs.