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Solar charging. Is this a good deal?

352
Explorer
Explorer
I am thinking about buying this. I have an older pop up slide in camper for primitive camping. The only electric there is are several led lights, water pump, converter and a very low wattage 12 volt TV. Gas stove does not need a 12 volt supply. I have two 6 volt 250 AH @ 20 HRS. batteries. I know there are a lot of variables in this. My real question is about how long will it take the above to fully charge the batteries from a low of around 12 volts
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Boatycall
Explorer
Explorer
If I may suggest....

We as TC'ers are not cheap, we have to be more efficient than our larger Class C/Class A/5'er brothern. We have an extremely limited amount of space, whether it's storage space, or in this case, roof space.

An MPPT controller is far more efficient than a PWM controller. On a panel that is rated @ 20v or more, an MPPT controller will give you roughly 50% or more charging amperage than a PWM. that's the same as buying a panel that takes up 50% more roof space.

I found this very good name brand on Amazon which includes an MPPT controller:
Renogy 100watt with MPPT Controller

I'm an electrical engineer by day, TC'er by weekend. I did this write up a while back as to the what's and why's of an MPPT vs. PWM controller on this thread.

------------------------------------------------

First, you have to understand what "Watts" actually is. It is a simple math equation, not a direct measurement -

Watts = Voltage x Amperage. or the age old P=IxE.
Also worth noting, this conversion can be used for running your microwave off a 12v inverter. (There's other formulas involving watts, but lets use this one for now). If you buy a watt-meter, like a Kill-O-Watt, it's measuring volts and amps, then displaying the two multiplied.

Let's do a real -world example--
You want 200 watts solar. You found a great deal on a 200w panel, it's voltage is 20 volts, it's output current is 10amps, hence 200 watts.

**Here's the problem**
Sure, it's 200 watts, but it's output current is 10 amps. A PWM controller will NEVER give you more than those 10 amps - and that's in a perfect lab-controlled world. Real world, probably 8.5-9amps, but for now, we'll say 10.
Pulse Width Modulation is nothing more than a fancy high speed on-off switch - that's how it regulates charge - on or off pulses, at a very high speed, varying in duty cycle. Dead battery - no pulses, full on duty cycle, 10 amps. Closer to full battery, the charge pulses become shorter in time, until finally you go into float mode with just very short pulses.

**Here's where MPPT comes in**
Your 200 watt panel puts out 10 amps @ 20v. MPPT does a voltage step down/amperage step up conversion. It drops 20v to 14.4, and by doing so, amperage gets converted UP to 13.8amps (in a mathematically perfect controller anyway.)
As the battery voltage comes up, the charge is of course regulated like your 12v converter until it finally goes into trickle charge mode.

**So - the moral of the story**

If you're going to go PWM - you need a LOW VOLTAGE panel.
Advantage to low-voltage panel--
* can use a much cheaper PWN controller
Disadvantages -
* Needs larger wire to handle full current of panel and minimize loss to due to wire resistance.
* Needs much more sunlight before it attains charge because you must get the panel voltage over 14 before it will actually charge.

**If you're going to go MPPT, you need high voltage panels, or panels wired in series.
Advantage to high voltage panels--
*Charging will start at a much lower light level - if you use 46volt panels in series, 92vmax, it takes very little light to make 92v of solar to cross over 14v and begin charging.
*Much smaller wire needed - high voltage panels are low in amperage, high in voltage, less loss due to wire resistance.

Disadvantage -
* needs a more expensive MPPT controller
* Be careful installing them, install them inside a garage, not outdoors. 46Vdc can bite you, ask me how I know.
'15 F450, 30k Superhitch, 48" Supertruss, 19.5's, Torklift Fast Guns
'12 Eagle Cap 1160, 800watts solar, Tristar MPPT, Magnum Hybrid 3k Inverter
'15 Wells Cargo 24' Race Trailer, 600 watts Solar, TriStar MPPT, Xantrex 2kw inverter
'17 Can Am X3 XDS Turbo

Oldtymeflyr
Explorer
Explorer
Our rig is not that much different from yours. We also have two 6v batteries.

For 7 years we used a GO Power 80 watt panel with a so so GO Power PWM controller. It it well. We used the camper all year off the grid and never got below 1/2 power.

Last year we added another 100 Watt panel and changed to controller to a Samlex PWM controller and we now have even more power.

I think the system you are looking at is a good buy because it includes most if not all of the bits and pieces including 40 feet of wire and free shipping. The Amazon product is essentially the same $10 less but does not appear to include all of the bits and pieces. Also Amazon requires Prime membership for free shipping.

As in most things you can pay more and get more but this is a good package.

Rick

HMS_Beagle
Explorer
Explorer
The 100W rating is (as always) under lab conditions, figure about 80 percent of that in good sun, for 6 hours in a day. That will give you around 35 AH charge on a best case sunny day. I notice they claim only 25 AH in a day which is refreshingly honest. If your 250 AH battery is half discharged, you would need 125 AH to bring it up again.

From your usage description, I doubt that you would be using 40 AH a day, and probably not even 25 AH. Also you are in Florida with lots of sun. My guess is that it would work for you. That controller will handle another panel, so as long as you leave room on your roof you could always add a second panel if you find it isn't enough.
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Boatycall
Explorer
Explorer
Not a great deal for $180. It includes a PWM controller rather than a MPPT, and that panel puts out O/C over 21 volts, and just barely over 5 amps under perfect conditions.

You can't really think of it as "If I'm at 12 volts, how long will it take to charge?". It's more along the lines of how many Amp-Hours did you draw vs at what rate of AH can you put it back. Without a MPPT controller, you'll only ever get a max of 5amps charge from that panel. With an MPPT controller that same panel would put out 8-ish amps of charge (again, under perfect conditions).
'15 F450, 30k Superhitch, 48" Supertruss, 19.5's, Torklift Fast Guns
'12 Eagle Cap 1160, 800watts solar, Tristar MPPT, Magnum Hybrid 3k Inverter
'15 Wells Cargo 24' Race Trailer, 600 watts Solar, TriStar MPPT, Xantrex 2kw inverter
'17 Can Am X3 XDS Turbo

towpro
Explorer
Explorer
several of us use these with good luck.
http://www.amazon.com/Renogy-Watts-Volts-Monocrystalline-Bundle/dp/B00B8L6EFA/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid...

I have 2 of renogy 100w panels, but I use a different solar controller.
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