Space Heater

[junmy3]

We use a small 1500W ceramic space heater that is not adequate. Today we looked a Lowes and saw a much larger heater, but is was also only 1500W. So my question is what kind of heater would be better. I know we could use the propane furnace, but prefer to not have to when we have electric hook-ups.

[pianotuna]

The campground sets the price. If it includes power, then I am not "stealing". That idea is ludicrous.

[pasusan]

Lantley wrote:

CFerguson wrote:
Wow, 5 pages in and only one person has pointed out that not using the furnace just may endanger your water tanks and lines. Sure on some RVs it wont matter, but on many others it certainly does.
Pennywise and pound foolish?

For starters it generally takes 24 hours of sub freezing temps to cause issues to a heated RV. Temps below freezing for a few hours overnight will not create problems for most RV's with an enclosed underbelly.
Most RV'ers are not in extreme cold, yes it may dip below freezing overnight but the temps warm to above freezing during the day. THose moderately cold conditions are ideal for space heaters.
The idea that your tanks will freeze if you use space heaters is overblown. Yes it may happen in extreme conditions But if the cabin is warm/heated heat will naturally radiate and protect the plumbing.
Leaving a cabinet door open or using a light bulb in the basement also helps.
Your plumbing does not automatically freeze in cold weather if space heaters are used.
Temps must be well below freezing or remain below freezing for 24 hours or longer before there is a high risk of freezing pipes.

Lantley is right. We've camped in our trailer when it's gotten down to 24* when I woke up and checked. During the day it got up into the 50s. We use electric heat - sometimes a space heater, sometimes the heater in the air conditioner. Nothing happens to the plumbing and we don't even have an enclosed underbelly. I will say that we never have water hooked up - always use the tank and pump.

What kind of space heater do we use? A Vornado. It circulates the air and keeps the temperatures even all throughout the camper.

[Huntindog]

dieseltruckdriver wrote:

Huntindog wrote:
Not at all.
I think that whatever your 30 amp service can provide is justified.
But some seem the think that running another cord from a seperate outlet is OK.... I do not. Some even have gone to the trouble of adding a seperate way to get the power into their 30 amp unit... That in my eyes is theft. Often the park operator will just overlook it, as they do not want a confrontation. It is kind of like shoplifting. Everyone pays for it in the form of higher prices.
50 amp service generally costs more, as the park understands the electricity use will be higher

Well I have a separate outlet just for a space heater that plugs in to the 15 amp outlet. I have never been to a place that charges different fees for 30 or 50 amp service.

So explain how having that outlet that makes me a thief. I do it to ease the load on the rv wiring.

Broad generalizations really shouldn't be made.

When you do such a mod to "ease" the load on your TTs 30 amp service,,,, It allows you to consume more than 30 amps...If and only IF the electric cost is the same at the park for 30 or 50 amp, then this would be OK.. It just means that the park has decided to make their 30 amp customers subsidize their 50 amp customers.
But don't pull out the generalization line.

We all know that electricity costs money. 50 amp service costs more than 30 amp service. Somebody will pay for it. The park is not in business to be a charity for those that try to cheat.

[Huntindog]

cougar28 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:

cougar28 wrote:
For the most part I don’t think the people doing that with a 30 amp service is stealing. I think what there try to do is keep from tripping there 30 amp breaker at times. I know on my old 5th wheel it was a 30 amp. If the a/c was on and say the coffee pot maybe the water heater then someone used the microwave it would trip the breaker unless one was turned off for the time the microwave was used. I think the majority is just trying to prevent that from happening.

When that happens, they are using more than the 30 amps they are paying for.:S

Lets do the math. So I can use 30 amps 24/7 that's 86.4 kwh per day
Ok now the RV is pulling 20 amps 24/7 (which it will not because things turning on and off) that's 57.6 kwh per day
A 1500 watt heater plug into the 120v pole outlet because that's over amps the RV 30 amp breaker by 2.5 amps. Let say it heating for 30 mins and off 30 mins that's heating for 12 hr. That's 18 kwh per day
Ok by that 57.6 kwh + 18 kwh = 75.6 kwh used. So 86.4 kwh - 75.6 kwh = 10.8 kwh that's not used.So calling them a thief is a little harsh when there not.I bet my figure is pretty dang close if not a little on the high side.

Your math works ONLY if your park is on the standard (usually most expensive KW rate)
There are rates in which there is a demand/peak charge as well. These are pretty popular as the cost per KW is quite a bit cheaper..... But those savings evaporate in a hurry if the demand/peak usage spikes.... And when ones breakers pop, that is exactly what is happening.

I am not going to get into math, as the rates vary wildly around the country. But this is a fact.
The power companies are concerned about peak/demand loads as they must have standby generation on hand to cover those loads whenever they occur. This costs money. So they have come up with these rate plans to encourage customers to manage their peak/demand loads.... And penalize those that do a bad job of it.

[OleManOleCan]

Lynnmor wrote:
1500 watts is about the maximum allowed in an electric heater, all of them will put out the same amount of heat. When choosing the brand or style, you just decide how you want to direct heat. If one is not enough, buy another if you have adequate wiring and power available.

I have a 1500W Ceramic heater. I run it on a separate line.
We have used it on some very cold nights. Part of the secret is to use it with
a couple of blankets on the beds.
The loudest camper heating system I ever tried to sleep thru was
In the Grey-wolf we had. Very Loud Kicking on and off...
That's when I decided to heat my camper on the campground's dime.

Since we downsized the 1500w is more than enough for cold weather.
I run it very low.

[pianotuna]

bemerphile1,

If the power goes off, does it "keep" the setting?

[beemerphile1]

For those that choose to use a portable electric heater here is a great thermostat control. Use the cheapest clearance aisle heater and get perfect temperature control. I also use one to control a window air conditioner in the stix/brix.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000E7NYY8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[beemerphile1]

bob2194 wrote:
Check out this heater a little pricey, but it is super great heater.
check out this heater

It doesn't matter if you spend $500 or $20 for a heater. A usage of 1,500 watts still puts out the exact same amount of heat.

[pianotuna]

bob2194 wrote:
Check out this heater a little pricey, but it is super great heater.
check out this heater

Want some shares of the new Atlantis? Very in expensive.

The person offers no testing. He has drunk the Koolaide.

[bob2194]

Check out this heater a little pricey, but it is super great heater.
check out this heater

[Lwiddis]

“Wow, 5 pages in and only one person has pointed out that not using the furnace just may endanger your water tanks and lines.L

Yup. Surprising”

[cougar28]

Huntindog wrote:

cougar28 wrote:
For the most part I don’t think the people doing that with a 30 amp service is stealing. I think what there try to do is keep from tripping there 30 amp breaker at times. I know on my old 5th wheel it was a 30 amp. If the a/c was on and say the coffee pot maybe the water heater then someone used the microwave it would trip the breaker unless one was turned off for the time the microwave was used. I think the majority is just trying to prevent that from happening.

When that happens, they are using more than the 30 amps they are paying for.:S

Lets do the math. So I can use 30 amps 24/7 that's 86.4 kwh per day
Ok now the RV is pulling 20 amps 24/7 (which it will not because things turning on and off) that's 57.6 kwh per day
A 1500 watt heater plug into the 120v pole outlet because that's over amps the RV 30 amp breaker by 2.5 amps. Let say it heating for 30 mins and off 30 mins that's heating for 12 hr. That's 18 kwh per day
Ok by that 57.6 kwh + 18 kwh = 75.6 kwh used. So 86.4 kwh - 75.6 kwh = 10.8 kwh that's not used.So calling them a thief is a little harsh when there not.I bet my figure is pretty dang close if not a little on the high side.

[Lantley]

CFerguson wrote:
Wow, 5 pages in and only one person has pointed out that not using the furnace just may endanger your water tanks and lines. Sure on some RVs it wont matter, but on many others it certainly does.
Pennywise and pound foolish?

For starters it generally takes 24 hours of sub freezing temps to cause issues to a heated RV. Temps below freezing for a few hours overnight will not create problems for most RV's with an enclosed underbelly.
Most RV'ers are not in extreme cold, yes it may dip below freezing overnight but the temps warm to above freezing during the day. THose moderately cold conditions are ideal for space heaters.
The idea that your tanks will freeze if you use space heaters is overblown. Yes it may happen in extreme conditions But if the cabin is warm/heated heat will naturally radiate and protect the plumbing.
Leaving a cabinet door open or using a light bulb in the basement also helps.
Your plumbing does not automatically freeze in cold weather if space heaters are used.
Temps must be well below freezing or remain below freezing for 24 hours or longer before there is a high risk of freezing pipes.

[Lantley]

Gdetrailer wrote:

Lantley wrote:
Gdetrailer wrote:
5,000 BTU of heat out of one heater is a LONG, LONG stretch for heating an entire RV when considering it is a fraction of the heat a RV furnace can put out
While I generally agree with your point. You have to consider the efficiency of the lp furnace when comparing to a space heater.
Space heaters are 100% efficient. The lp furnace is far from efficient. I believe they are about 70% efficient and maybe as bad as 505 efficient.
If you hold your hand in front of the exterior exhaust discharge you will feel a lot of wasted heat being discharged to the outdoors.
That heat translates to $$$.
Efficiency ratings are a big deal when it comes to residential furnaces. RV furnaces are very inefficient compared to residential models.

:R

18,000 BTU input at 70% efficiency = 12,600 BTU = approx 2.4 1500 W electric heaters or 3600W.

30,000 BTU input at 70% efficiency = 21,000 BTU = approx 4.04 1500W electric heaters or 6060W.

You ARE typically RVing as a HOBBY, spend tons of money on a completely unnecessary RV which also has a absorbtion fridge which is about 30% efficient, a RV water heater which is barely 20% efficient, spend tons of money moving it with hyper expensive over the top tow vehicle then have the gall to worry about efficiency of the RV furnace?

Now, IF you are going to pay for the electric it WILL cost you much more than propane.. Resistance heat is not and never will be 100% efficient when you take in the WHOLE picture of just how that electric is created, transported and delivered to your plug.

Anyone with a all electric resistance heat home or business can attest to the fact that it uses more energy and costs more to do so..

I was involved in a church congregation which had a building that was solely heated with your 100% efficient resistance heat.. Electric cost was $4K (FOUR THOUSAND A MONTH!) and that was the averaging plan for a yr.. $48000 for the year!!!

Building temp was set back to 58F during non use periods and 68 during use periods..

Eventually after 25 yrs the heating system started having issues and parts became non existent it was decided to retrofit with gas heating system.

Electric bill dropped to less than $1K a month and the new gas bill was only $1K a month..

That IS a considerable savings and the new gas fired heating system paid it's self off in only three yrs.

Personally to me, folks attempting to use only electric to heat a RV at a campground are abusing the campground owners good will and there are many places that recognize that abuse and charge more or may have meters..

Don't be so blasted cheap and ruin the goodwill for others by abusing the system.

This is not really a comparison between gas vs. electric heat.
You made the comment that a lp furnace produces a lot more heat than a 1500 watt space heater. However you did not mention efficiency which is all part of the story, since the lp furnace losses 1500 watts or 30% of the heat it produces. An lp furnace losses as much as the space heater produces.
I'm not sure how we got into being cheap and RV'ing is a hobby but let's not deny that electric is generally included in the rates for most hobby level RV'ers. Full timers may encounter metered electric but hobby style RV'ers generally do not.
I consider using my 3 space heaters no different than running my AC in the summer. Unless a CG has specific rules against it (which a few do) space heaters are OK.
I prefer space heaters over lp furnace because they quiet, they do not come on with a loud noise, I do not have to monitor my lp tanks,I do not have to change my LP tanks with space heaters.
Space heaters are not all bad. They are simply another option for heating.

[dieseltruckdriv]

Huntindog wrote:
Not at all.
I think that whatever your 30 amp service can provide is justified.
But some seem the think that running another cord from a seperate outlet is OK.... I do not. Some even have gone to the trouble of adding a seperate way to get the power into their 30 amp unit... That in my eyes is theft. Often the park operator will just overlook it, as they do not want a confrontation. It is kind of like shoplifting. Everyone pays for it in the form of higher prices.
50 amp service generally costs more, as the park understands the electricity use will be higher

Well I have a separate outlet just for a space heater that plugs in to the 15 amp outlet. I have never been to a place that charges different fees for 30 or 50 amp service.

So explain how having that outlet that makes me a thief. I do it to ease the load on the rv wiring.

Broad generalizations really shouldn't be made.