Specific Question on F350's

[smcrea]

Hi,

I've been asking questions on this forum for maybe 2 years about selection of a tow vehicle. Thanks in no small part to the expertise of you good people I have made my selection choice.

It is an F350 Diesel Crew Cab with short bed, SRW 4WD. I am factory ordering this truck and have a specific question of package details. Can we please keep this thread focused on this question?

The question is regarding the 'Camper Package'. We would really like to have the 20" chrome wheels rather than the 18". However when selecting the 20" wheels it forces you to delete the 'camper package'.

The camper package is defined as:
The Camper Package includes extra heavy service front springs on 4x2 (2 up upgrade above the spring, computer selected as a consequence of options chosen. Not included if maximum springs have been computer selected as standard equipment), heavy service front springs on 4x4 (1 up upgrade above the spring computer selected as a consequence of options chosen. Not included if maximum springs have been computer selected as standard equipment), rear auxiliary springs (F-250 only), rear stabilizer bar (SRW only), and slide-in camper certification. Not available with 20" wheels and tires, 3.31 axle ratio or Heavy Service Suspension Package.

I'm not even sure what this all means. I'm guessing that the camper they are referring to is the camper that sits in the bed.

We tow a travel trailer and may upgrade to a 5th in the future. Maybe way way down the road we could possibly get a camper that sits on top of the bed?

If we delta the camper package in favor of the 20" wheels then what does it mean to us?

From what I can see is the camper package gives you two things:
- Slightly heavier from springs
- A different stabilizer bar

As this is an F350 then is this really a big deal?

Thanks!

Steve

[Passin_Thru]

Dual alternators mean twice the chance for failure.I'd buy a 1 ton with 20 inch tires and no bed and buy an aluminum flatbed with short side racks. Lot's of Ranchers have them.

[4x4ord]

GoPackGo wrote:
I have a couple suggestions for you, based on the options I ordered or didn't order on my 2013 F350 diesel dually 4x4 crewcab longbed. I fulltime so your mileage may vary.

1. If you have any thoughts of getting a 5er at some point, then I suggest that you get the Ford 5er prep package. In addition to the predrilled holes in the bed, it includes an additional umbilical electrical plugin in the bed - now you will have a total of two to choose from. You will get a set of plastic pucks to cover the holes if there is no hitch installed.

2. I got the Ford spray in bed liner. It seems to be a quality product and has held up well. Part of my thinking was that Ford would do all the prep work and would make sure the spray would coat all the edges of the holes that were cut as part of the 5er prep package. I have never run any kind of bed mat in my trucks. What happens when you get water trapped under it ???? RUST !

3. I did not get the dual alternator package and have not missed it. I have the Platinum model with diesel glow plugs, heated seats, running lights, etc and no problems. I believe the diesel option gets you a larger alternator then comes standard on a gas truck.

4. I agree that the Fx4 package is a joke. Check out what's really included in the package. I didn't want the crappy shocks from the package so I just ordered the skid plates separately (cheap)and put Bilstein 5100s on the truck right after I took delivery. Guess I'll have to live without the big decal that tells the world I drive a 4x4 truck.

5. I have the 3.73 rear end but that was the only one offered with my setup. I tow 14,000 pounds (gross) and all I can say is that towing is a dream. I would never want a lower (numerically) gear ratio. The gear selector never moves out of 'D'. This thing is a beast and doesn't seem to care how high the mountains are. I'm turning about 1600-1700 RPMs (maximum torque) at about 58-60 mph. And I can still get over 20 mpg on the highway when not towing.

6. I also got the optional upfitter switches. It's a cheap option ($125 ??) and will be handy if you want to wire up additional lighting, or maybe a fuel transfer pump when you get that auxiliary fuel tank in the bed (see my note below).

* Something to remember is that you get a significantly larger diesel fuel tank with an F350 longbed truck. I believe the tank is 26 gallons on a short bed truck and 37.5 on a longbed.

Tim

Something many people don't realize is that the new trucks with overdrive gears are designed such that when they are pulling the load they are designed to pull they should shift down. My truck is designed to tow a 15,500 lb trailer. When towing a trailer that size I often lock out 6th gear to keep the rpms up a little. When I hit a bit of a hill or go into a wind it might drop another gear and run in direct. This is ideal. The truck has enough power to easily maintain 70 mph but it needs some rpm to make that power. So now when there is a high power demand the power is being delivered to the rear wheels most efficiently. If I had a lower speed rear end the engine could be running the same rpm going through 5th gear where it speeds the drive up only to run through the higher ratio rear end to be slowed way down. When I am pulling 24000 - 30,000 lb trailers I run in 3rd gear at times and could be slightly better off with a 3.73 rear end so I would basically have 1 more ussuable gear.

[GoPackGo]

I have a couple suggestions for you, based on the options I ordered or didn't order on my 2013 F350 diesel dually 4x4 crewcab longbed. I fulltime so your mileage may vary.

1. If you have any thoughts of getting a 5er at some point, then I suggest that you get the Ford 5er prep package. In addition to the predrilled holes in the bed, it includes an additional umbilical electrical plugin in the bed - now you will have a total of two to choose from. You will get a set of plastic pucks to cover the holes if there is no hitch installed.

2. I got the Ford spray in bed liner. It seems to be a quality product and has held up well. Part of my thinking was that Ford would do all the prep work and would make sure the spray would coat all the edges of the holes that were cut as part of the 5er prep package. I have never run any kind of bed mat in my trucks. What happens when you get water trapped under it ???? RUST !

3. I did not get the dual alternator package and have not missed it. I have the Platinum model with diesel glow plugs, heated seats, running lights, etc and no problems. I believe the diesel option gets you a larger alternator then comes standard on a gas truck.

4. I agree that the Fx4 package is a joke. Check out what's really included in the package. I didn't want the crappy shocks from the package so I just ordered the skid plates separately (cheap)and put Bilstein 5100s on the truck right after I took delivery. Guess I'll have to live without the big decal that tells the world I drive a 4x4 truck.

5. I have the 3.73 rear end but that was the only one offered with my setup. I tow 14,000 pounds (gross) and all I can say is that towing is a dream. I would never want a lower (numerically) gear ratio. The gear selector never moves out of 'D'. This thing is a beast and doesn't seem to care how high the mountains are. I'm turning about 1600-1700 RPMs (maximum torque) at about 58-60 mph. And I can still get over 20 mpg on the highway when not towing.

6. I also got the optional upfitter switches. It's a cheap option ($125 ??) and will be handy if you want to wire up additional lighting, or maybe a fuel transfer pump when you get that auxiliary fuel tank in the bed (see my note below).

* Something to remember is that you get a significantly larger diesel fuel tank with an F350 longbed truck. I believe the tank is 26 gallons on a short bed truck and 37.5 on a longbed.

Tim

[cummins2014]

4x4ord wrote:

Lynnmor wrote:
I got the plow package with the 3.55 gears and heavy alternator. Don't want the 20" wheels as they are just for show; no go. The larger wheels would make the gearing about the same as the 3.31.

Both those reasons are why I like the 20 inch wheels. I have absolutely no desire for a different final gear ratio. Why would anyone need a lower speed gear ratio than 3.31 in a srw pick up truck with a first gear ratio of 3.97 and 800 or more lb ft of torque engine?

Many THINK they need those lower gears towing fifth wheels, and of course those many have never towed with anything less then 3.73 ,and a lot of them with no less then 4.10.

I towed with 3.73 with a less powered diesel, switched to a new truck with 3.42, and can't imagine needing any lower gears, of course I am only towing 13K .

[4x4ord]

Lynnmor wrote:
I got the plow package with the 3.55 gears and heavy alternator. Don't want the 20" wheels as they are just for show; no go. The larger wheels would make the gearing about the same as the 3.31.

Both those reasons are why I like the 20 inch wheels. I have absolutely no desire for a different final gear ratio. Why would anyone need a lower speed gear ratio than 3.31 in a srw pick up truck with a first gear ratio of 3.97 and 800 or more lb ft of torque engine?

[Lynnmor]

I got the plow package with the 3.55 gears and heavy alternator. Don't want the 20" wheels as they are just for show; no go. The larger wheels would make the gearing about the same as the 3.31.

[4x4ord]

skyhammer wrote:
When I bought my 2011 DRW, there were 3 ways to get the heavier front springs.
The camper package, snow plow package and the FX4 off road package.
All Ford diesels from 2011 up have an exhaust brake, the 2015 has a better one, along with a new turbo and you have more control over the exhaust brake.
I have dual alternators and would not like to be without them. Depending on your options you may have to get the heavy duty dingle alternator.
If you get the supplemental heat option(worth the money), you will need at least the heavy duty alternator.
At start up(especially on a cold morning) I have a heavy electrical load.
You may have to wait for the glow plug light to go off before starting,which sucks juice, both seat heaters going, headlights, plus the over 30 lights the DRW has,supplemental heat, which is about 1200 watts, you have no control over when it goes on or off.My air compressor for air bags etc., usually starts.
So on start up, I can be drawing over 200 amps easily.There are many other electrical draws that I haven't mentioned.

FX4 is kind of a joke. The most valuable thing in the FX 4 package to my way of thinking is the sticker. You get different cheap shocks, some skid plates and a useless hill descent button on the dash as well as that nice sticker. The Fx4 F350 4x4 diesel crew cab still only gets the 5600 lb front springs, which I believe are heavy enough. Anyway I wouldn't want to sacrifice ride to get heavier front springs.

[smcrea]

skyhammer wrote:
When I bought my 2011 DRW, there were 3 ways to get the heavier front springs.
The camper package, snow plow package and the FX4 off road package.
All Ford diesels from 2011 up have an exhaust brake, the 2015 has a better one, along with a new turbo and you have more control over the exhaust brake.
I have dual alternators and would not like to be without them. Depending on your options you may have to get the heavy duty dingle alternator.
If you get the supplemental heat option(worth the money), you will need at least the heavy duty alternator.
At start up(especially on a cold morning) I have a heavy electrical load.
You may have to wait for the glow plug light to go off before starting,which sucks juice, both seat heaters going, headlights, plus the over 30 lights the DRW has,supplemental heat, which is about 1200 watts, you have no control over when it goes on or off.My air compressor for air bags etc., usually starts.
So on start up, I can be drawing over 200 amps easily.There are many other electrical draws that I haven't mentioned.

I can't get the camper package because I want the 20" wheels.. so I'm going with the Snow Plough Prep package. I heard that this gives you one step higher on the front springs than the standard F350.I heard that without it then the front can droop after a while.

I'm getting the dual alternators and the fast heat

[skyhammer]

When I bought my 2011 DRW, there were 3 ways to get the heavier front springs.
The camper package, snow plow package and the FX4 off road package.
All Ford diesels from 2011 up have an exhaust brake, the 2015 has a better one, along with a new turbo and you have more control over the exhaust brake.
I have dual alternators and would not like to be without them. Depending on your options you may have to get the heavy duty dingle alternator.
If you get the supplemental heat option(worth the money), you will need at least the heavy duty alternator.
At start up(especially on a cold morning) I have a heavy electrical load.
You may have to wait for the glow plug light to go off before starting,which sucks juice, both seat heaters going, headlights, plus the over 30 lights the DRW has,supplemental heat, which is about 1200 watts, you have no control over when it goes on or off.My air compressor for air bags etc., usually starts.
So on start up, I can be drawing over 200 amps easily.There are many other electrical draws that I haven't mentioned.

[smcrea]

After doing great research it seems that the camper package is just one level of front springs higher plus a sway bar.

It looks like if you install the snow plough prep package that you get those same from springs that you would get with the camper package.

You can then fit the 20" wheels which incidentally according to the spec have a higher rating than the 18"

Totally different subject but what is the feeling about roof clearance lights? DO you guys like them?

[Bedlam]

We either tow a small flat bed with toy or two (usually around 2000 lbs) or have a large enclosed trailer that can handle more toys plus has 84 gallons of fresh water, 18 gallons of gasoline and 25 gallons of LPG for extended boon docking (up to 8000 lbs so far when filled).

In most states you are allowed to travel in a truck camper, but you will hear most of these forum members discouraging it since most campers do not have restraints and none have a roll over protection rating.

We do know one truck camper owner that tows a "Mother in law" trailer behind them when the family travels together. They can use one vehicle to get to their destination, but have private space when they want it.

[smcrea]

Bedlam wrote:
I remember when my extended cab short bed 4wd diesel with camper package was going to be all I needed. Ten years later and I'm in a class 5 chassis cab crew that could haul my previous truck as payload. We're looking at the triple slide truck campers with side entries and dry baths now...

You will find some nice short bed truck campers with a slide that can be handled by a SRW (about 7000 lbs on the rear axle). If you decide to do this and tow heavy behind you at the same time, I can even point you to the upgrades that will work on this truck.

Thanks.. good advise..
I'd like to add that if and should the camper option become a reality it will be for the sole reason that we want to 'go light' Just the wife and myself going to visit the kids at college or something!. To be honest I never thought of a camper and trailer? It does have attractions.

BTW are you allowed to ride in a camper while on the road?

Thanks!

[Bedlam]

I remember when my extended cab short bed 4wd diesel with camper package was going to be all I needed. Ten years later and I'm in a class 5 chassis cab crew that could haul my previous truck as payload. We're looking at the triple slide truck campers with side entries and dry baths now...

You will find some nice short bed truck campers with a slide that can be handled by a SRW (about 7000 lbs on the rear axle). If you decide to do this and tow heavy behind you at the same time, I can even point you to the upgrades that will work on this truck.

[smcrea]

4x4ord wrote:

smcrea wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

smcrea wrote:

4x4ord wrote:

4x4ord wrote:
The camper package is of no significance on the diesel F350 because it already has the heavy front axle and rear stabalizer. The 20" tires are rated for more weight than are the 18" tires. (3750 lbs per tire for the 20" and 3640 for the 18" tires) The 20" rims will give you a little more "stability" due to their lower profile. 20 wheels also provide for a little lower rpm at highway speed if you are getting the 3:55 rear end. This lower rpm will equate to a little better fuel economy. If you want the best fuel economy you need to go to the 3:31 rear axle ratio which will require you get 18" wheels.

I made a mistake here. The 4x4 F350's front axle weight rating range from 4400 lbs to 6000 lbs depending on wheel base cab configuration and engine. The F350 diesel 4x4 crew cab has a normal computer selected front axle weight rating of 5600 lbs regardless of tire size. Selecting camper package should up grade the front axle rating 1 level higher than the normal computer selected axle which would be 6000 lbs which is the same springs as the snow plow option.

Thanks for checking up!

Listening to you experts it really does look like going with the camper package is the safest option. Especially as we are buying this type of truck specifically because it's a towing beast!

Bottom line is that no matter what type of RV we get in the future... towing now with our 28' Travel trailer or upgrading to a a 5th wheel as the kids get bigger or downgrading later on to a camper shell after the kids have left home. I want this new truck to be able to do anything I throw at it!

Some folks have said that for my 27' TT then this is over kill. Which is absolutely true!.. but I NEVER want to be limited by my truck when selecting an RV.

A little additional information for you: my F350 4x4 crew cab has an empty (driver in but no passengers or camper) front axle weight of 4900 lbs. To stay within my gvwr I could only carry 3100 lbs of camper and passengers. This number would be the same regardless of whether I have the camper package or not. The question that needs answering is ..... How much weight would a 3100 lb camper put on my front axle? Very likely 700 lbs would be close. So what I am getting at is that, if you see yourself carrying a camper heavier than 3100 lbs maybe a dually is something you might want to consider buying rather than being concerned about the camper package.

I certainly considered a DRW but after much thought I considered that the 'bang for the buck' isn't worth it. I'm sure that others will disagree but my feeling is that when 'on site' the Tow Vehicle becomes your family car for sight seeing. So physical size is an issue. This same reason is why I got the shorter bed.

I feel the same way. I tow very heavy loads with my short box SRW (30,000 lb trailers at times) but when I am empty I don't want a dually. The thing for you to consider is that if you want a truck to tow your fifth wheel around the SRW short box is perfect and you don't need or even want any stiffer springs on the front than the standard 5600 lb springs. If you decide to get a slide in camper some time down the road you will be quite limited in what kind of camper you get if you only have a SRW short box so again I wouldn't put much priority on the camper package. I think by the time you load up a high quality, nice size camper with all your gear you could be pushing 5000 lbs and that is a load for a dually.

It's all about compromises isn't it! 🙂
IF and its aBIG IF we go for a camper package then it would probably be for my wife and I only. After the kids have left home.

So I'm thinking that the short bed with the camper package will leave options open. That we would be able to fit a camper.. all be it a small one. But it will have the certificate. It's also possible that we may hang a ten set on a front mounted hitch so an extra spring maybe useful.

Again.. compromise compromise compromise!.

If I wanted a towing beast and nothing else then a F350 DRW with the heaviest springs I can get. But try sight seeing and using it as a family vacation car would be a nightmare! 🙂