Starting Generator with dead batteries

[RamblinAnne]

So I bought a TC that I'm currently remodeling. The generator seems to be in good condition (Onan 2500, propane). When I first got it, I tested it and it ran fine. But the battery that came with the camper (12V Group 31 AGM) is totally dead. Now, I can't get the generator to start. (I still find it ridiculous that I need charged batteries to start my generator to charge my batteries).

Anyway.. I will get new batteries eventually but I really just want to run my generator here and there to keep her in good shape. How am I supposed to start it up without working batteries?? Can I use my truck to jump start? I plug into my house's 110V once in awhile for power while I'm working in there but I guess this doesn't do anything to help it start up? Should it? Is something wrong?

Sorry so many questions.. I am clearly a newb.

[silversand]

Jim wrote:
I was referring to Flooded Wet Cells and did not reference them...

.....cheers Jim.

[bigfootford]

silversand wrote:

BigFoot Ford wrote:
Your camper can not sit over 1-2 months without shore power on it or have solar to maintain your batteries.. Other wise you will be replacing batteries yearly.

.....kind of...My AGMs have been over-wintering in storage 7 months a year since I bought them in 2007 (10 years ago) with no maintenance whatsoever. I make sure that the AGM is fully charged just before storing the camper (the camper is stored indoors in a heated facility), then I snap the master battery disconnect to the OFF position for the duration of storage.

The AGMs are still in very, good condition to this day. Just picked the camper up yesterday from storage, and am running on the batteries after 7 months as I type (the camper is my office for the next 6 months, when then it will be in Florida), no problem. I'll charge them back to 100% this weekend 😛

AGMs are very, very, VERY slow self discharge over time (compare: flooded lead acid cells discharge much to quickly for my liking when sitting in storage)...

Right! Thanks for clarifying. I was referring to Flooded Wet Cells and did not reference them.

Jim

[silversand]

BigFoot Ford wrote:
Your camper can not sit over 1-2 months without shore power on it or have solar to maintain your batteries.. Other wise you will be replacing batteries yearly.

.....kind of...My AGMs have been over-wintering in storage 7 months a year since I bought them in 2007 (10 years ago) with no maintenance whatsoever. I make sure that the AGM is fully charged just before storing the camper (the camper is stored indoors in a heated facility), then I snap the master battery disconnect to the OFF position for the duration of storage.

The AGMs are still in very, good condition to this day. Just picked the camper up yesterday from storage, and am running on the batteries after 7 months as I type (the camper is my office for the next 6 months, when then it will be in Florida), no problem. I'll charge them back to 100% this weekend 😛

AGMs are very, very, VERY slow self discharge over time (compare: flooded lead acid cells discharge much to quickly for my liking when sitting in storage)...

[mkirsch]

BTW, your mentor does not have to be a truck camper owner. ANY long-time RV owner should be able to identify the systems, and show you how to properly use/maintain them. The only difference is the form factor.

[mkirsch]

Normally you do not want to run a vehicle with a dead or missing battery. This is because the regulator on the charging system will run wild trying to charge the dead/nonexistent battery, and burn out the regulator.

That is a general rule of thumb. I don't know how an Onan generator works in this respect, if it has an alternator built in or if it depends on the camper's converter to charge the battery. You might want to make sure before you fire up the generator, disconnect the jumper cables, and damage something.

[Z-Peller]

Z-Peller wrote:

As earlier poster said, check for battery disconnect switch. On your Bigfoot it is electronic disconnect switch surface mounted on a cupboard near the back door. If it is off then converter will not charge battery when plugged into shore power. If red light comes on when you are plugged into shore power but goes out when you unplug, then switch is not on. Red light stays lit up when switch is on.


Wow I feel like a dummy. I think mine was off. Just to be clear here, I want it in "Use" mode when I want to charge my batteries, right? And I want it in "store" mode when I want to disconnect my batteries?

Yes, you've got it. No need to feel like a dummy at all. You don't know some of this stuff and are asking questions. That is called learning, and is what this forum is supposed to be all about, although there are some that come here to ridicule. Just keep asking the questions and you will soon be enjoying your camper.
Before you go out and buy 6V batteries be aware that they are taller than your existing 12V battery and are a tough fit in your Bigfoot.... 6V batteries would not fit in my 2002 9.6 Bigfoot battery box. I now have a 2017 10.4 Bigfoot and the battery box is larger but I still had to ditch the slideout tray to get enough height for 6V batteries. Very little room at top so installed a manual battery watering system to keep them topped up.

[pianotuna]

RamblinAnne,

If you have the wizard you are in good shape as far as the converter goes.

[bigfootford]

RamblinAnne wrote:

bigfootford wrote:
First, use absolute caution using jumper cables or even installing new batteries!
Even if someone helps you jump it... Watch like a HAWK! Know that + goes to + and - goes to -!!!!

Why?

There have been many disasters posted here on RV.net of folks hooking their batteries backwards and blowing all of the voltage sensitive appliances etc electronics... BIG $$$!

ABSOLUTE attention to polarity is necessary.

That said... There are many issues you will need to learn about.....A crawl before you walk thing.

Your camper can not sit over 1-2 months without shore power on it or have solar to maintain your batteries.. Other wise you will be replacing batteries yearly.

If you could disclose an approximate where you live there should be some RV.net TC'er nearby that could help and teach you....

Do not go out and purchase batteries without first determining what type of Converter/charger you have.

The box that sits under the step is where the converter is on the BF.
Open the little door and check the make and model...

If it a Magnetek you will need to upgrade that. I am not sure what year they upgraded.
I can not even imagine AGM batteries being maintained by a magnetek so maybe the previous owner upgraded or the factory did.

Hope there is someone nearby that can help you get started!

Congratulations on your combo truck and camper... We love our BF... had it 17 years now... nearly 200,000 miles on it... hahahaaaa 2 trucks.

Jim

This is super helpful, Jim.. Thank you! I am on the very East End of Long Island, NY (The North Fork). I don't see many fellow campers out here so I doubt there are any around. But it's a big boating area and I have a marine electrician friend who is going to help me with my solar/battery setup when that time comes. I've just been focusing on the remodel right now and want to wait on the electrical side of things until I'm ready to start moving in.

I just checked and I have a Parallax 32amp Power Converter. Series 6300. I just googled and I guess this technically is a Magnetek? So it's no good huh? There's also this little Intellipower 9200 Remote Pendant thing that is hooked up to it. Not sure if that makes any difference to the overall setup.

So do I need to buy a new converter charger? Any recommendations? I'll be upgrading my battery bank to two 6V (haven't yet decided if I'm going with T105s or Lifeline AGMs.. but definitely two 6V).

Haw, New Yorkkkkkk well that would be a long drive! I thought you were here in Cali.
We do have some folks that are around the New York area so a raised flag might help!

So here we go!

When storing you need to turn the cutoff switch to off....
Some folks will add on other things direct to the battery. Some investigation of the battery connections should reveal if that has been done. Usually there are only 2 leads from the battery (s)... Red and Black or white that go through the battery enclosure box to the cutoff switch and to the negative buss. So I would check that... Sometimes there are 2 wires on the Negative that go through the enclosure box... so do not be alarmed if you see that. The Positive lead is the important one...

I am not familiar with the way the BF folks wired up the ONAN so there might be leads going to it from the batteries. Discuss that later.

As for the Parallax..... You are in luck it seems :B... Someone has performed the modification to bypass the actual charge portion of the Parallax with a Progressive Dynamics converter. That little pendant says the mod has been performed, or should.. The capacity of that converter from you post is 60 amps... That is great for 2 batteries!

Here is a link to one of the very best vendors that provide converters for the rv industry. The link will be to show you the pendant and the chargers of different types.

http://www.bestconverter.com/9200-Series-Deck-Mount_c_84.html



Here is the write-ups that various folks have done to do the upgrade from Parallax to Progressive Dynamics....

http://www.bestconverter.com/MagnetekParallax-to-PDI-or-PM_ep_13-1.html

So now you have some reading to do and it seems to me you are on the right path!

Solar later and maybe a Trimetric meter to monitor your batter usage because full timing and battery status is a thing to behold!

Jim

[RamblinAnne]

bigfootford wrote:
First, use absolute caution using jumper cables or even installing new batteries!
Even if someone helps you jump it... Watch like a HAWK! Know that + goes to + and - goes to -!!!!

Why?

There have been many disasters posted here on RV.net of folks hooking their batteries backwards and blowing all of the voltage sensitive appliances etc electronics... BIG $$$!

ABSOLUTE attention to polarity is necessary.

That said... There are many issues you will need to learn about.....A crawl before you walk thing.

Your camper can not sit over 1-2 months without shore power on it or have solar to maintain your batteries.. Other wise you will be replacing batteries yearly.

If you could disclose an approximate where you live there should be some RV.net TC'er nearby that could help and teach you....

Do not go out and purchase batteries without first determining what type of Converter/charger you have.

The box that sits under the step is where the converter is on the BF.
Open the little door and check the make and model...

If it a Magnetek you will need to upgrade that. I am not sure what year they upgraded.
I can not even imagine AGM batteries being maintained by a magnetek so maybe the previous owner upgraded or the factory did.

Hope there is someone nearby that can help you get started!

Congratulations on your combo truck and camper... We love our BF... had it 17 years now... nearly 200,000 miles on it... hahahaaaa 2 trucks.

Jim

This is super helpful, Jim.. Thank you! I am on the very East End of Long Island, NY (The North Fork). I don't see many fellow campers out here so I doubt there are any around. But it's a big boating area and I have a marine electrician friend who is going to help me with my solar/battery setup when that time comes. I've just been focusing on the remodel right now and want to wait on the electrical side of things until I'm ready to start moving in.

I just checked and it looks like the previous owners did replace the original Magnetek. I'm having a hard time telling for sure (as I have to take the whole thing apart to see the model #) but there's some paperwork saying they replaced it with a Progressive Dynamics PD9160A Charger/Converter with the little charge wizard thing.

So do I need to buy a new converter charger? Any idea if this one is any good? If not, any recommendations? I'll be upgrading my battery bank to two 6V (haven't yet decided if I'm going with T105s or Lifeline AGMs.. but definitely two 6V).

[RamblinAnne]

Z-Peller wrote:
As earlier poster said, check for battery disconnect switch. On your Bigfoot it is electronic disconnect switch surface mounted on a cupboard near the back door. If it is off then converter will not charge battery when plugged into shore power. If red light comes on when you are plugged into shore power but goes out when you unplug, then switch is not on. Red light stays lit up when switch is on.

Wow I feel like a dummy. I think mine was off. Just to be clear here, I want it in "Use" mode when I want to charge my batteries, right? And I want it in "store" mode when I want to disconnect my batteries?

[wyocowboy00]

Like Jim says, find a tech who you trust completely. It could be several things causing the trouble - a bad connection/cable, the battery kill switch, or a bad converter/charger. A real tech will find the problem and the cause of the problem.

[bigfootford]

First, use absolute caution using jumper cables or even installing new batteries!
Even if someone helps you jump it... Watch like a HAWK! Know that + goes to + and - goes to -!!!!

Why?

There have been many disasters posted here on RV.net of folks hooking their batteries backwards and blowing all of the voltage sensitive appliances etc electronics... BIG $$$!

ABSOLUTE attention to polarity is necessary.

That said... There are many issues you will need to learn about.....A crawl before you walk thing.

Your camper can not sit over 1-2 months without shore power on it or have solar to maintain your batteries.. Other wise you will be replacing batteries yearly.

If you could disclose an approximate where you live there should be some RV.net TC'er nearby that could help and teach you....

Do not go out and purchase batteries without first determining what type of Converter/charger you have.

The box that sits under the step is where the converter is on the BF.
Open the little door and check the make and model...

If it a Magnetek you will need to upgrade that. I am not sure what year they upgraded.
I can not even imagine AGM batteries being maintained by a magnetek so maybe the previous owner upgraded or the factory did.

Hope there is someone nearby that can help you get started!

Congratulations on your combo truck and camper... We love our BF... had it 17 years now... nearly 200,000 miles on it... hahahaaaa 2 trucks.

Jim

[time2roll]

Need to prevent the new battery from getting below 12.2 volts on a regular basis. Battery is not a fuel tank that you can leave empty and fill when needed.

Consider 100+ watts of solar as part of the remodeling.

[Z-Peller]

As earlier poster said, check for battery disconnect switch. On your Bigfoot it is electronic disconnect switch surface mounted on a cupboard near the back door. If it is off then converter will not charge battery when plugged into shore power. If red light comes on when you are plugged into shore power but goes out when you unplug, then switch is not on. Red light stays lit up when switch is on.