Suggestion for small 4 season TT please

[stevennlv]

I know what I need, just not sure where to start looking (brands / models). This is what I need. I'm a little flexible in some areas, like a smaller bed if I really have to.

1) **Truly 4 season**, at least PNW 4 season. I won't be doing any Dakota's Rockies' wintering.
2) Fully enclosed
3) As small as possible while being fully closed (R-Pod or smaller without having to go outdoors to cook or shower.)
4) Single axle
5) Stove, preferably no oven
6) Fridge
7) AC
😎 Furnace
9) toilet
10) microwave
11) shower, preferably no tub
12) Queen sized bed
13) table / seating for at least one

Basically something as small as possible while being enclosed, just big enough for one who does not have much "stuff" and in which I can get through a couple of 25 degree nights and 100 degree days without being completely miserable.

Something like an Arctic Fox / R-Pod hybrid on the size of an R-Pod or smaller.

Does anybody make any such an animal?

[normal_dave]

With your list of must haves, 4 seasons, shorter length, and budget, the field narrows dramatically...Why not look in another field? (or pond for that matter):B

Ice Castle Fish House 17RV mfr site.

Ice Castle Fish House 17RV at dealer

They advertise heavy duty cargo trailer-style construction, spray foam insulation, They show 2 x 3 wall studs, lots of room for insulation.
Maybe you could custom order one without the "fishing holes" in the floor? Seems like a well built unit, certainly designed to withstand the elements. If you stay put for awhile, you could "drop-it" just about anywhere?

Edit: look at their standard features and options, seems they could build you whatever you wanted, and insulate it far beyond the typical RV options.
Ice Castle features/options

Hey, you have to get creative these days, and with your list...

[JWeaverCMA]

I've got a Jayco Whitehawk 25BHS that's a "4 season" rig with additional insulation in what they call the Glaicer Package.

The way they explained it to me at the dealership was that unless you're getting a bespoke, custom made TT specifically for extreme weather adventures, the 4 season rating should be taken with a grain of salt. A 4 season camper should have a sealed underside with winterized pipes and be able to keep the pipes from freezing in average winter temps. Insulation varies but mine is rated to efficiently heat down to 0 degrees and efficiently cool up to 100 degrees with the heat running though the floor to help keep the pipes from freezing.

I doubt there exists such a thing as a mass produced TT or motorhome that can withstand say the coldest months of a North Dakota winter and the hottest campgrounds in Death Valley.

I'm new to towing and I've learned so far that there's always a trade-off between weight, performance features and expense. You can only pick 2. So if you want a lightweight rig with awesome features, be prepared to pay and so forth.

Anyways, I'd recommend Jayco. They have a super teardrop called the Hummingbird which is similar to an RPOD.

[theoldwizard1]

stevennlv wrote:
Well city "camping" may be the wrong term? To me I'm permanently camping all the time now b/c I don't have a fixed structure to call home any more. I'll spend almost all of my time at some park somewhere with a *full* hook up.

I took "city camping" to mean Walmart parking lot or "stealth" camping on a quiet residential street.

Still finding a 3 burner stove AND a larger refrigerator/freezer will be very difficult in a smaller TT.

[stevennlv]

RandomAbstract wrote:
My choice would be an Outdoors RV Creekside 21RBS. Visited their factory last year. Very impressed.

I would already have one but it is pushing the limit for my Grand Cherokee.

I've done a lot of research on the whole ORV line. Most of the stuff I have read has been positive. That unit is out of my price range. And it is 25' long.

They have other units a little shorter, but not by much. And with my neck being the way it is I'm worried about having to pilot something in the 18'+ range with no assist.

I'm still working my way through the list compiled earlier. I've eliminated about half so far as either completely unsuitable, too expensive and / or too long. I still have to look at the lances, escapes, bigfeet, olivers, casitas, scamps and camplites.

Although at first glance that 13' scamp may be just the thing.

The search continues...

[RandomAbstract]

My choice would be an Outdoors RV Creekside 21RBS. Visited their factory last year. Very impressed.

I would already have one but it is pushing the limit for my Grand Cherokee.

[stevennlv]

RedRocket204 wrote:
If you've not read through the first post on the thread linked below, do it. Although the information is primarily derived from RVing in the snow with much lower temps than you'll most likely see, there may be some valuable information gleaned from it. Portland experiences freezing temps, possibly snow, at least a couple times per season. It may not happen every season but freezing temps at least a couple times per season was my experience living on the north west coast of Oregon for 9 years.

Winter RV camping

Thanks, lots of good info in there. Some new, some I figured out the hard way this past winter (my first winter in a TT). I bookmarked it for future reference.

Some nights last winter in Vegas in January were borderline crappy at best. When it hit 28 degrees with winds @35mph sustained, gusting to 70 the heat would run non-stop. The propane bottles were sucked dry quickly. And with the air in Vegas already being so dry the heater running all night would make the air in the TT so dry that my sinuses would bleed at night as I slept. That makes for a fun morning.

I've learned a lot about winterization, moisture control, ventilation and the "terrarium" by trial and error. If I had been staying in this TT I had been planning to add a skirt before winter hit again. As it was I was sucking bottles so quickly that my best solution at the time was to get the park management to agree to allow me to drop a 120 gallon tank that is on a remote monitor / auto-refill schedule.

I don't want to get stuck again needing to resort to that. Unlike most parks this place actually prefers long-term work campers. There are folks that have been here 7-8 years. But most places are not going to let me drop a big tank. And I don't really want to get tied down again like that at the moment. It required a 3 year contract and I'd have to schedule their truck 10-14 days in advance to come get their tank out of my way before I could hook up to the unit to pull out if I wasn't leaving it here for her. That kind of delay could cause big problems at most parks.

[RedRocket204]

If you've not read through the first post on the thread linked below, do it. Although the information is primarily derived from RVing in the snow with much lower temps than you'll most likely see, there may be some valuable information gleaned from it. Portland experiences freezing temps, possibly snow, at least a couple times per season. It may not happen every season but freezing temps at least a couple times per season was my experience living on the north west coast of Oregon for 9 years.

Winter RV camping

[stevennlv]

Well city "camping" may be the wrong term? To me I'm permanently camping all the time now b/c I don't have a fixed structure to call home any more. I'll spend almost all of my time at some park somewhere with a *full* hook up. Part of the plan to survive on my own is to get camp host / work camper jobs to help offset rent and utilities.

Thanks everybody for the input.

[theoldwizard1]

stevennlv wrote:

With the bigfeet, olivers and lances pulling ahead on low maintenace and weatherability.

"Eggshell" TT (full fiberglass like Oliver, Scamp, Casita) will likely last longer.

stevennlv wrote:
I plan on mostly city camping. The ex was more in to the roughing thing.

Whoa ! This changes a lot of things !! With no electric hookup you are going to have to be more "creative". No way to heat under the camper and battery power is not going to last more than 1 or 2 days when running a furnace.

Don't forget, you need fresh water and a place to dump waste.

[theoldwizard1]

stevennlv wrote:
I just started this search. I've found recommendations on line about wintering in these smaller units by doing things like using a skirt and putting a ceramic heater underneath on an ext cord run from the podium.

No experience, but it sounds like a very good idea and probably the only way to prevent pipes from freezing ! I would rest the heater on a couple of bricks so that it is up off the ground. Make sure you have a good HD cord (12 gauge). I would not worry about fire.

If you really are paranoid about fire, rig up a sheet metal shield so that the heater is not directly pointing at anything. You could even temporarily put a smoke detector underneath when you are running this heater.

stevennlv wrote:
Something I noticed in the brochures I've seen so far is that the ones in this size range (~14'?) do not have a "full" fridge, I.E. no freezer and only have a two burner stove.

You are not likely going to find either of those in a small TT ! Good luck.

[Durb]

The Bigfoot and Oliver trailers both would fit your needs. I owned the largest Bigfoot and it was a wonderful trailer that would heat up and cool down quickly with minimum energy use. The problem is I would not recommend them for full timing and neither does Bigfoot in their owner's manual. They are too tight and do not breathe well. Your body creates moisture and you would have to manage your air circulation within the trailer to prevent moisture problems from within. The way they are built does mean no water intrusion from outside. Bigfoot and Oliver and most likely Escape probably top the list of highest quality, low maintenance trailers you can buy by nature of their designs. They eliminate the largest bugaboo of travel trailers - membrane roof and seams. If you can find one used they represent a low cost of ownership as their resale value will remain high down the road.

Portland has a mild climate. We will hit over 100 this week but that is seldom. There will be days below freezing but nothing that a more porous trailer couldn't handle. Good luck.

[valhalla360]

15 deg does not need a 4 season trailer. Just about any 17-20' trailer will work.

[FrankShore]

The Lance 1475 and Lance 1575 are not 4 Season Trailers. You'd need to jump up to the Lance 1685 to get the dual pane windows, etc!

[stevennlv]

Well *supposedly* Portland only sees a couple of 25 degree nights a year.

I think a 2017 Black Rock 20RD would be perfect for me, if it was about 10 feet shorter! Other than length it has everything I want and is in my price range.

And I'm not going to Minnesota. I specified "PNW 4 seasons". I don't need a washer / dryer. The laundromat will do.

I'm compiling a list to start looking from your suggestions and my own research.

This is what I have so far:

jayco humingbird
wennebago drop
2017 Black Rock 20RD (weight / feature / price OK / not short)
Camplite casita or scamp
Starcraft comet or satellite
Lance 1475 or 1575
Pretty much any escape trailer?
Northwood trailers
pretty much any bigfoot trailer?
2018 KEYSTONE HIDEOUT 178LHS (weight / feature / price OK / not short)
R-Pod 171
Pretty much any Oliver

With the bigfeet, olivers and lances pulling ahead on low maintenace and weatherability. Anything I should drop from the list as junk?

I plan on mostly city camping. The ex was more in to the roughing thing. If I ever did decide to go out to the Q I'd probably find a hook up some where *before* I went. The option to rough it would be nice. Especially if money ever gets tight. But if I'm careful it won't. And in all honesty, no matter how much it may bruise my ego, I'm can no longer cut the snuff roughing it.

And thanks for all the input. I truly appreciate it.