Surge Guard - Questions

[aluminum_flyer]

Hi,

Looking at a Surge Guard (TRC brand) for our TT. I need a 30A model... What I need to figure out is:

1) Is it noisy (any high pitch sounds, etc.) to install under dinette seat area?

2) Does it work well with a generator (I use a Champion 3000/4000W generator). It is not an inverter model but does seem to put out stable power. Has run our A/C, fridge etc for 2 years now.

3) Better to get portable for the easy of removal (if needed)? or permanent installed model for easy of securing it from thieves?

Any other suggestions or comments?

Thanks in advance.

[aluminum_flyer]

I tested mine after some more research. My generator shows continuity between the NEUTRAL terminal (wide/left blade in the receptacle) and the GROUND terminal.

Correct me if I am wrong... N-G tied together is OK without modification. N-G not tied together needs a adapter plug made the sits in a empty receptacle socket that has a short pigtail to connect the N to G.

Sound correct?

Thank you.

[aluminum_flyer]

I found this:

http://www.noshockzone.org/generator-ground-neutral-bonding/

Down a ways it says...

"Contractor-type generators such as your Coleman 5000 are generally G-N bonded internally, which is why it runs your RV just fine. However, many portable inverter generators from companies such as Yamaha and Honda (your EU3000 specifically) have floated Neutrals (no internal Ground-Neutral Bond) since they expect an external G-N bond to happen somewhere else."


I have a contractor type generator vs your inverter type. Is that why your generator caused trouble vs the others that says it works fine?

[aluminum_flyer]

EDIT: Please ignore this post... I wasn't thinking straight went posted.



Don't generators have a earth terminal? I know mine does. Just that no one chooses to use them...

Yes or no?

[clubhouse]

Problem with generators, and mine is a honda eu2000i, is there is no earth ground and the EMS detects this and shuts down current to the TT. There is way you trick the EMS by tying the ground and neutral together with a easily made pigtail -- however I don't do this. I simply chose not to use my portable SurgeGuard EMS with my generator. A buddy who has a hard wired EMS simply uses the bypass function with his EU3000.

So basically no they aren't compatible with generators, but there are work arounds. Personally I trust the voltage coming from my Honda and small not worried...but I also don't let it run till the fuel tank is empty while powering my TT. Doing this I believe can cause voltage spikes.

[aluminum_flyer]

I was thinking that if ever it failed... it would be easy enough to just temporarily wire it back together bypassing the unit if the bypass jumper didn't work or the unit needs send back service.

[myredracer]

Bumpyroad wrote:
does it have a bypass feature? I wouldn't want a hard wired one without it.
bumpy

From PI's website:

Bypass:
This switch is located on the remote panel, and allows the user to bypass the computer circuit in the EMS in the event of computer failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV. This does not disable the surge protection portion of the EMS; however, all other features are disabled.

On the version without remote display, they say:

Enclosed blue jumper wire allows the user to bypass the computer circuit in the EMS in the event of computer failure, thus allowing AC power into the RV.

Some have installed a 30 amp cord and connector so that you can remove the complete unit if it fails and to send for service, but I couldn't see doing the extra work. If it got really fried while camping, I'd just reconnect the shore power cable back into the panel.

[thomasmnile]

Marauderer wrote:
Just bought a TT and have read multiple horror stories on the different forums. Do I really need to get a SP? How many CG have problems with the shore power they supply?

Yes, money well spent. Better to have than not need it than need it and not have it.

[Winged_One]

aluminum.flyer wrote:

On shore power I would not be worried, but a bad interaction with the generator would be bad news. Can anyone elaborate as to why/how that generator (which I think was a Honda or Yamaha inverter) reacted to the power protection and what you did to resolve it? Was it that the generator did not have a ground wire from the frame terminal to earth? Was it because there were parallel generators?

Thanks.

Cannot speak for any other systems, but my Yamaha EF3000ISEB has no problems plugging directly into my coach (which is hardwired with a a PI EMS-HW50C). No adaptations necessary.

[Bumpyroad]

does it have a bypass feature? I wouldn't want a hard wired one without it.
bumpy

[myredracer]

aluminum.flyer wrote:
OK, you convinced me that the Progressive Industries is the way to go.

Yay!

If I could add one small comment. That is on the grounding inside the hardwire EMS, they provide a small terminal to connect the line and load ground wires using the provided crimp-on connectors. Seems a bit on the flimsy side and like it could loosen over time. I connected the line and load wires using a red twist-on marrette connector and ran a 3rd wire the same size over to the terminal and then used the provided crimp-on connector to connect to the terminal. But that may just be me being an EE and wanting to do it a better way. You'll see what I mean when you have it in hand.

[aluminum_flyer]

OK, you convinced me that the Progressive Industries is the way to go.

I should say that I am not just looking for surge protection... but all the power protection (low/high/mis-wire/surge/etc.)

I think the hardwired version is best. I don't need the remote LCD display. I have a dinette seat and below that is the cord storage area and junction box. Easy access and should be an easy swap out (junction box). I am not worried about the install. That is easy straight forward.

On shore power I would not be worried, but a bad interaction with the generator would be bad news. Can anyone elaborate as to why/how that generator (which I think was a Honda or Yamaha inverter) reacted to the power protection and what you did to resolve it? Was it that the generator did not have a ground wire from the frame terminal to earth? Was it because there were parallel generators?

Thanks.

[myredracer]

One of the most commonly used features on these things has to be the automatic low voltage protection. In the summer time with many running AC units, it's easy for the voltage to get dragged down below the AC's damage threshold level. Nice to know you can go out for the day and not come back to a damaged AC unit(s).

If you look closely at the specs and features between the Surgeguard and PI EMS, the PI has the edge. Plus with the PI, you not only get the lifetime warranty, you get to support domestic workers.

I just installed the 30A hardwired PI EMS.

[jaycocreek]

why do you see the need for in house surge protector strips? I am more worried about under/over voltage, etc. than pure surges myself.
bumpy

Mostly because of the lack of plugins and I run generators quite a bit and have been known to fall a sleep with it on, then it runs out of gas surging up and down until it finally dies.

The surge strips add extra outlets for low power items like cell chargers/drill chargers/walkie talkie chargers etc etc and don't forget the fan only my wife uses to blow her cigarette smoke out the window.:B

[Dog_Folks]

FrankShore wrote:
I just bought the Progressive Industries one because it has a lifetime warranty. That other brand doesn't. have a lifetime warranty

Frank

I have a Surge Guard but will go to Progressive if I need a new one.

I called Surge Guard to arrange for a repair to change the plugs as they were worn. I was told they do not do repairs as it was not "cost effective" for them. I would have to buy a new one!!

$25.00 later and hour worth of labor, I replaced the plugs myself. It sure was "cost effective" for me, as I was willing to spend up to $100.00 to have the factory do it before they forced me to do it myself.