Suspension upgrade??

[TxGearhead]

I have a suspension conundrum. I would like to minimize sway with the Bigfoot. No big issue on 2 trips...Maryland to Houston and Houston to Broken Bow, OK. But getting into some high winds out west could get interesting. I also have a 5th wheel. Both are loading the truck about the same..3200-3400#. Both sag the rear of the truck 3".
I'm looking at Firestone Work Rite bags (not airbags). I think they would help with the sway. But...I'm already a bit nose high with the 5th. If the rear of the truck doesn't sag I will be even more nose high.
Anyone have a guess how much the truck will sag with the Firestones? I haven't tried their consumer help yet. I suppose I could call eTrailer and get their opinion.
Otherwise it's more than double the price for a Bigwig sway bar. Or get airbags. Or get the Work rite bags and take them off for the 5th. Or maybe TorkLift Stable loads? Or my default decision...do nothing.

[towpro]

2BLAZERS wrote:
How much do you run around totally unloaded?

I've had Super Springs on both my 2011 and my 2016 truck and have loved them for being 1/3rd the cost of airbags with controllers. And on my 2011 I went with airbags 1st and still added SuperSprings. my 2016 I'm just using Supersprings with no need for airbags. And I go from hauling a quad, to hauling a toyhauler to hauling a truck camper almost weekly.

Super springs? What are they? The sumo bags?

[smooth1]

To keep the truck from squatting too much and getting the nose high look try the Firestone Work-Rites as you originally suggested --- or Timbrens/Sumo Springs. If it still has too much sway get a sway bar.

[Bedlam]

Reddog1 wrote:

TxGearhead wrote:
I'm looking at Firestone Work Rite bags (not airbags). I think they would help with the sway. But...I'm already a bit nose high with the 5th. If the rear of the truck doesn't sag I will be even more nose high.

I question the Firestone Work Rite bags having any positive effect on sway. They would allow you to raise the rear after loading. As for the ride, you would have to play with air pressure in the bags when on your particular truck. Each truck suspension and load is different.

TxGearhead wrote:
Anyone have a guess how much the truck will sag with the Firestones? I haven't tried their consumer help yet. I suppose I could call eTrailer and get their opinion. .

The amount of sag will be exactly the same as it is now. The question is, will the air bags bring the height back to where you want it. In most cases they would. Being adjustable is one of the main advantages to air bags. Other suspension mods are typically fixed, and not easily adjusted if at all.

There are basically two types of air bags, with two different mounting options. On types, one type must have a minimum of either 5 or 10 psi, I don't remember which. Failure to maintain this may result in damaged air bags. The other type has built in bump stops. They have no minimum air requirement. Mounting options are on the side of the frame, or between the frame and axle. Outside the frame as more positive effect on reducing sway, but is marginal in my opinion. Each have their advantage.

Plumbing the air bags depends on your intended use. If you only want to raise or lower the rear of the truck for a trailer, then a single line between both bags does the job. If you also want the ability to use the bags for leveling side to side and raise the rear as you might want to do with a TC, then you would be best served with each bag separately.

The install, type and use of air bags is worthy of its own Thread. There are many considerations, options and preferences in using them, including the consequences of too much or too little air pressure.

TxGearhead wrote:
Otherwise it's more than double the price for a Bigwig sway bar. Or get airbags. Or get the Work rite bags and take them off for the 5th. Or maybe TorkLift Stable loads? Or my default decision...do nothing.

I am a little confused here, what is the difference between air bags and Work rite bags?

You are suggesting four products designed for different purposes to solve your area of concern. One or maybe all will be needed, but first you need to be clear as to what you dislike in terms of the handling of your truck with the TC and with the 5th wheel. An example is that I really doubt you have sway issues with your 5th wheel.

I think the advice you have been offered so far in this thread may be valid for a given situation, but it is a grab bag of solutions without know exactly what you are trying to correct for your preferences. I really doubt you need everything suggested.

During my years as Moderator, I find very few people really understand what the various suspension mods effect. Some may correct one thing, and cause other issues. Adding springs to a spring pack is one example, great for carrying a load, but probably a real rough ride. There are other examples.

Wayne

Firestone Work-Rites are like Timbrens or Sumo Springs - They are not air bags. Firestone calls their bags Ride-Rites.

[2BLAZERS]

You first mentioned sway. So I'd suggest a Sway bar.

[TxGearhead]

Correct, no issues with the 5th wheel. The Bigfoot isn't bad. I just know that it can get bad under the right conditions. I have little to no effect with 18 wheelers passing, moderate sidewinds, or any moderate side grades. I may be just whistling past the graveyard.
It's getting down to a sway bar or maybe StableLoads.

[Reddog1]

TxGearhead wrote:
I have a suspension conundrum. I would like to minimize sway with the Bigfoot. .

While other suspension mods may help reduce sway, that is not their intended purpose. An Anti-Sway bar is called an Anti-Sway bar simply because that is what it is designed to do. That is all it is designed to do. My experience is the bigger the diameter the bar, the better. It has no effect on the ride of the vehicle other than reduces sway. Simply stated, you minimize sway with an Anti-Sway Bar.

TxGearhead wrote:
No big issue on 2 trips...Maryland to Houston and Houston to Broken Bow, OK. But getting into some high winds out west could get interesting.

The Sway Bar is the single most beneficial suspension mod to reduce this.

TxGearhead wrote:
I also have a 5th wheel. Both are loading the truck about the same..3200-3400#. Both sag the rear of the truck 3"..

My observation and experience through the years is the 3-inch sag is typical of the big three trucks, if they are not overloaded. As manufactured the rear of the truck is typically is 3 to 4 inches higher than the front of the truck. This allows the truck to sit level when loaded to the trucks maximum capacity.

TxGearhead wrote:
I'm looking at Firestone Work Rite bags (not airbags). I think they would help with the sway. But...I'm already a bit nose high with the 5th. If the rear of the truck doesn't sag I will be even more nose high. .

I question the Firestone Work Rite bags having any positive effect on sway. They would allow you to raise the rear after loading. As for the ride, you would have to play with air pressure in the bags when on your particular truck. Each truck suspension and load is different.

I understand your comment "... nose high with the 5th." to mean the nose of the 5th wheel sits high. This may or may not be an issue. If the 5th wheel is excessively high in the front, it puts more weight on the rear axle of the 5th wheel axle. This is a subject the would warrant its own thread, probably in the 5th wheel Forum. I can say, adding anything to your suspension, other than an Anti-Sway Bar, will not help thin problem, and could make it worse.

TxGearhead wrote:
Anyone have a guess how much the truck will sag with the Firestones? I haven't tried their consumer help yet. I suppose I could call eTrailer and get their opinion. .

The amount of sag will be exactly the same as it is now. The question is, will the air bags bring the height back to where you want it. In most cases they would. Being adjustable is one of the main advantages to air bags. Other suspension mods are typically fixed, and not easily adjusted if at all.

There are basically two types of air bags, with two different mounting options. On types, one type must have a minimum of either 5 or 10 psi, I don't remember which. Failure to maintain this may result in damaged air bags. The other type has built in bump stops. They have no minimum air requirement. Mounting options are on the side of the frame, or between the frame and axle. Outside the frame as more positive effect on reducing sway, but is marginal in my opinion. Each have their advantage.

Plumbing the air bags depends on your intended use. If you only want to raise or lower the rear of the truck for a trailer, then a single line between both bags does the job. If you also want the ability to use the bags for leveling side to side and raise the rear as you might want to do with a TC, then you would be best served with each bag separately.

The install, type and use of air bags is worthy of its own Thread. There are many considerations, options and preferences in using them, including the consequences of too much or too little air pressure.

TxGearhead wrote:
Otherwise it's more than double the price for a Bigwig sway bar. Or get airbags. Or get the Work rite bags and take them off for the 5th. Or maybe TorkLift Stable loads? Or my default decision...do nothing.

I am a little confused here, what is the difference between air bags and Work rite bags?

You are suggesting four products designed for different purposes to solve your area of concern. One or maybe all will be needed, but first you need to be clear as to what you dislike in terms of the handling of your truck with the TC and with the 5th wheel. An example is that I really doubt you have sway issues with your 5th wheel.

I think the advice you have been offered so far in this thread may be valid for a given situation, but it is a grab bag of solutions without know exactly what you are trying to correct for your preferences. I really doubt you need everything suggested.

During my years as Moderator, I find very few people really understand what the various suspension mods effect. Some may correct one thing, and cause other issues. Adding springs to a spring pack is one example, great for carrying a load, but probably a real rough ride. There are other examples.

Wayne

[Oregun]

My truck has air bags with a single fill, I wondered about that but it hasn't been a problem. I guess my truck/camper is well balanced. I just add a little air to level out the rear of the truck.

[2BLAZERS]

How much do you run around totally unloaded?

I've had Super Springs on both my 2011 and my 2016 truck and have loved them for being 1/3rd the cost of airbags with controllers. And on my 2011 I went with airbags 1st and still added SuperSprings. my 2016 I'm just using Supersprings with no need for airbags. And I go from hauling a quad, to hauling a toyhauler to hauling a truck camper almost weekly.

[54suds]

TxGearhead wrote:

54suds wrote:
to install lowers I jacked the pressure off rear tires using the the hitch as the lifting point this opened a gap between the spring pack and the lower over load

Good thinking. Do you do this every time you load the camper, or leave them in all the time? I don't think it would take 10 minutes to jack it up and swing the stable load in. Hmmm...

once installed I have never changed them ( they Do HAVE a quick disconnect feature ) on this particular truck I added several up grades that were not needed but MAY help in a panic situation. I only added air bags to correct headlight alignment in loaded /unloaded night situations.

[TxGearhead]

All good info. I don't think I would want to drive around town unloaded with the StableLoads engaged. Probably a rough ride.
A machinery set-up wedge of the correct size would accomplish the same thing, with correct spring width and with a counter drilled relief for the bolt head.
Redneck StableLoads. lol

[theoldwizard1]

Over 40 years ago, my Dad had Air-Lift bags on an old full sized Ford (giant trunk that he would fill with lots of VERY heavy things !). He ran each air hose out to the side and through the pinch weld of the body. They worked GREAT ! You needed to check the vehicle ride height with no load and the bags almost empty. Then fill the bags to their rated max pressure. Finally, load the vehicle and release the air until you were back at the proper ride height. (Filling the bags AFTER loading the vehicle might have allowed the bag to get pinched because they were actually INSIDE of the rear coil spring.)

[996Pilot]

pirlbeck wrote:

996Pilot wrote:
On my 2006 Dodge RAM 2500 CTD I had too much sway loaded. First I tried Firestone Ride Rite airbags - big mistake (should have read the forum first). Then I installed a Big Wig Sway Bar (1-5/16" diameter) which helped but still was bad due to the "added" sway caused by the airbags (should have read the forum first). Then I installed lower Stableloads and fixed all of it. Wish I would have read the forums first. BTW they were the easiest (and cheapest) install out of all three.

996,

Where the airbags plumbed separate or tee'd together?

Thanks!

Mine were separate as the left side of my camper is a bit heavier than the right and I would apply different pressure to get it a bit more level from side to side. What I noticed (as others have verified) was that with the airbags inflated it took about 3 inches (of squat) to engage the overloads. When the overloads engaged, that's when things got really solid (not before). So the airbags were just allowing non-engagement of the overload and the sway/rocking was evident until it got down to the overload.

For the person that mentioned the jarring ride with Stableloads and the truck unloaded, the Stableload design takes care of that by allowing a simple 90 degree swing to disengage. Takes about 30 seconds a side to engage/disengage. With them disengaged, the ride is identical to stock.

This was just my experience on my Dodge RAM loaded with my camper. Your experience may differ for your rig. I chimed in on the thread ONLY because I have an identical truck as the OP and I thought I'd relay my experience with a similar truck that had similar issues.

[egarant]

54suds wrote:
to install lowers I jacked the pressure off rear tires using the the hitch as the lifting point this opened a gap between the spring pack and the lower over load

That is exactly how you install them, you HAVE to jack the truck up to get the space to install them. Torklift will tell you the same.

Good luck!

[pirlbeck]

SugarHillCTD wrote:
Does ANYONE have their airbags plumbed to a single fill point? That wouldn't make sense.

Also for the OP, the less air I put into my airbags the better- less sway. Plus the BigWig antisway bar workes great for me.

I agree a single fill does not make any sense, especially for carrying a top heavy load like a TC, but some have been done that way.

[SugarHillCTD]

Does ANYONE have their airbags plumbed to a single fill point? That wouldn't make sense.

Also for the OP, the less air I put into my airbags the better- less sway. Plus the BigWig antisway bar workes great for me.