May-13-2014 04:25 AM
May-20-2014 06:49 PM
'15 Chevy Silverado 2500 HD
'18 Forest River Avenger :C "Dolci"
Kipor KGE3500Ti
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May-20-2014 06:48 PM
06Fargo wrote:
There is some great information being put forward.
I think I'm in the spray foam insulation camp as well. #1 issue with every rv we've owned is lack of control of the interior climate. Every tank and system enclosed in the insulated envelope.
A V-nose might be worth taking a look at - we have towed both flat and v-nose cargo/car trailers and there is a difference in power required. The V nose could be used for storage, higher part accessible from inside behind a bulkhead, and the lower for gas bottles, batteries etc with ventilation.
May-20-2014 06:42 PM
Dennis Smith wrote:
Darla, can you tell us what kind of camping you want to do. Are you planning on not using camp grounds at all? Just don't understand why your spending so much money where it doesn't look like a camper. But steps going up to the door lights coming out around the curtains, really does make it look like a camper. And I for one don't want someone knocking on my door at 2AM telling me this is a no parking zone, or worse yet, having someone hook up to my TV and start towing my rig away. I have read your post and just don't understand why your doing what your doing?
May-20-2014 04:38 PM
May-20-2014 03:59 PM
Dennis Smith wrote:
Darla, can you tell us what kind of camping you want to do. Are you planning on not using camp grounds at all? Just don't understand why your spending so much money where it doesn't look like a camper. But steps going up to the door lights coming out around the curtains, really does make it look like a camper. And I for one don't want someone knocking on my door at 2AM telling me this is a no parking zone, or worse yet, having someone hook up to my TV and start towing my rig away. I have read your post and just don't understand why your doing what your doing?
May-20-2014 02:17 PM
May-20-2014 07:17 AM
May-20-2014 05:56 AM
myrvplans1 wrote:OhhWell wrote:
http://www.coolrunninghs.com/ls090hxv.html
What is that? Does it need venting?
May-19-2014 11:08 PM
myrvplans1 wrote:Huntindog wrote:
A couple of thoughts. Are you stuck on 15'?
It occurred to me that since most building materials are 4x8 standardized, that making the TT box 16' would likely yield some savings in labor, and not add any to the cost of materials. Most of the materials cut off over 15' will just be thrown away, and you would be paying someone to do it!. An extra foot would not be noticed at all when towing, but could make a substantial impact on the interior, at basically zero cost.
It may not work out to exactly 1 foot of extra room, and you would have to have the cargo trailer selected in order to plan it that close.
You would hate to be a inch short in the materials.
But some detailed construction planning couild pay some dividends.
In another post, we talked about how to handle the rear door. IIRCC, you said that the trailer builder could just wall it off.
I think that keeping the doors, if they are the swing open type could have some advantages.
First off it would keep the stealth mode consistent with your desire to not look like a camper.
Next is it would make the construction a LOT easier. If the rear is walled off, then everything will need to be brought in thru the small entry door. This will slow things down considerably and drive up the labor cost.
You could make a sort of false wall back there for when the doors were open, or have a screen wall like some toy haulers have. Might be nice sometimes to have some extra ventilation
Another thought: If you got a ramp rear door, you could use it as a patio. I have even seen pics of a toy hauler with this setup with the ramp hanging out over a lake, so that they could fish off of their own "dock" It looked pretty cool
Finally with the raised floor plan, if the rear doors were still there, you could access the area under the floor just by opening the doors. The possibilities here are endless. You could install some of those long slide out drawers like some camper shell kits have. One could even store one of those fold up canoes in there. Obviously, some of this space will be occupied by tanks etc. so thinking this out in advance would be necessary.
THANK YOU HUNTINDOG! I've been waiting all day to respond to your post. I really appreciate your feedback. Good stuff.
1) I think you're absolutely right about having to go to 16'. They seem to make the base cargo trailers in even lengths. The extra 12" could help out in a few areas. (When they say something like an 16x8 cargo trailer are they referring to a 16' box length or 16' from the rear bumper to the tongue hitch?)In the TT world, they generally measure from tongue to rear bumper, though sometimes the model number may be the box size.(really can't depend on that though as their is no consistency).
I am pretty sure that in the cargo world, they go by box size, though it may vary by manufacturer.
Best to make this a inquiry as it is a big difference likely 3-4'.
2) I like your idea about keeping the ramp door as a patio or to appear more "stealth-like." But, I ask the question... with an awning a/c and vent on roof, 2 windows and propane tanks haven't I overplayed my stealth hand? There are a bunch of guys online that built stealth cargo conversions with no windows (People want my head on a pike cause I only have 2 and they think I should have more), so I'm not sure I'm gonna fly under the radar even omitting the RV swirl graphics. How far you want to fly under the radar is totally up to you. I just mentioned it as a side benefit to your already mentioned desire. The further you stray from this, the faster it will be recognized for what it really is.
Though you just mentioned that as far as resale goes (I am not advocating that as a primary goal) that even though this TT may have a very limited market as a TT, that it could always be sold as a cargo trailer. This wouldn't be true if there was no cargo door. It may well be cost prohibitive to retrofit a cargo door, as some of the support structure for one may not have been installed at the factory.
3) While initially I was describing it as a "raised floor plan", it's not exactly that. There was an artist rendering error in my first set of drawings which showed it as a skyscraper on wheels.... it's since been corrected) I told the artist to "draw the vehicle so the floor plan laid out over the wheel wells creating sort of a basement".... he took that to mean add a basement area in addition to the area above the wheel wells. The trailer now comes in at around 11'-11.5' in height.... about 4" higher than my previous 31' TT.I wasn't thinking of overall height at all.
I was figuring that you were designing a flat floor from front to rear just to eliminate the wheel wells from intruding into the living quarters. Is this not the case?
If my thinking was correct, then there will be a basement of sorts. This area could be utilized many ways. Accessing it from the rear cargo doors is one way to do it.
As I mentioned before, in a typical RV build the walls are one of the last things to go up.
I toured the Sabre plant and saw this first hand. I even have pics of it. It looks really weird to see a almost compete TT with no walls. The plant manager explained that the walls would just get in the way in such small units.
Think about how restricted the access will be in your build with only a small side door.
I think that the increase in labor hours due to this will be pretty substantial.
Thank you again! Regards, -Darla
May-19-2014 09:46 PM
tonyandkaren wrote:Gdetrailer wrote:
The following document is my second and current rebuild, it took me 2 1/2 years to do, worked on it nearly every night and weekends.
KOMFORT REBUILD
Nice job on the trailer rebuild Gdetrailer! Your experiences with factory built trailers shows why some people such as Darla chose to build using a cargo trailer. No doubt her trailer will weigh more and be expensive but she's getting a very solid, practically leak proof base to finish out exactly as she wants it. It's not something the majority of RVs would want but from reading her blog and the posts on this thread, I'm believe that she's going to be living in the trailer fulltime for years with no intention of selling it. I certainly don't agree with all of her ideas but I'm very interested in seeing the finished product and how she likes it after a few months or years of living in it.
Obviously we all have different wants and needs-just look at how many different types of RVs are manufactured. But what Darla wants isn't being made so custom is a good way to get it. I'm not sure where all of the animosity on this thread is coming from. It doesn't make sense to me to get angry about something that doesn't affect you. 🙂
May-19-2014 09:01 PM
Huntindog wrote:
A couple of thoughts. Are you stuck on 15'?
It occurred to me that since most building materials are 4x8 standardized, that making the TT box 16' would likely yield some savings in labor, and not add any to the cost of materials. Most of the materials cut off over 15' will just be thrown away, and you would be paying someone to do it!. An extra foot would not be noticed at all when towing, but could make a substantial impact on the interior, at basically zero cost.
It may not work out to exactly 1 foot of extra room, and you would have to have the cargo trailer selected in order to plan it that close.
You would hate to be a inch short in the materials.
But some detailed construction planning couild pay some dividends.
In another post, we talked about how to handle the rear door. IIRCC, you said that the trailer builder could just wall it off.
I think that keeping the doors, if they are the swing open type could have some advantages.
First off it would keep the stealth mode consistent with your desire to not look like a camper.
Next is it would make the construction a LOT easier. If the rear is walled off, then everything will need to be brought in thru the small entry door. This will slow things down considerably and drive up the labor cost.
You could make a sort of false wall back there for when the doors were open, or have a screen wall like some toy haulers have. Might be nice sometimes to have some extra ventilation
Another thought: If you got a ramp rear door, you could use it as a patio. I have even seen pics of a toy hauler with this setup with the ramp hanging out over a lake, so that they could fish off of their own "dock" It looked pretty cool
Finally with the raised floor plan, if the rear doors were still there, you could access the area under the floor just by opening the doors. The possibilities here are endless. You could install some of those long slide out drawers like some camper shell kits have. One could even store one of those fold up canoes in there. Obviously, some of this space will be occupied by tanks etc. so thinking this out in advance would be necessary.
May-19-2014 08:32 PM
Gdetrailer wrote:
Thought I would dig up a few "resources" which may help to explain some of the pitfalls of Darla's design.. Hopefully you will find some of this info enlightening..
Although the plans are “dated looking” they will give you some insight to typical RV construction and I would recommend the following website for a real good look at actual home built RV plans..
Nothing says you have to follow the plans to the "T" but you will gain some inside knowledge on how a typical RV is constructed.
There are even photos posted by folks who bought and built the plans.
GLEN-L RV PLANS
“GLEN-L is the name of proven quality in the do-it-yourself field, and we gained this reputation simply by offering the best R-V plans available. There may be other so-called "bargain" plans available, however, we doubt that you will find ALL of what we provide in our various Plans & Pattern packages regardless of the price. Remember, the value of a good set of plans will be repaid many times over by preventing mistakes and wasted time, not to mention shoddy construction and possible safety hazards to your family.
Only GLEN-L offers all of these features...
Plans: With our Plans you receive a unique "package" that is complete and intended just for the R-V you have selected. All our plans are intended for amateurs who may have little or no experience reading blueprints. They are based on decades of experience providing plans to the amateur builder and cover all phases of the construction. The quality of our plans is so highly respected that you have no doubt seen them featured many times in national magazine articles.
Instructions: Our voluminous GLEN-L Construction Manuals are furnished with all Campers and Travel Trailers. These manuals are the finest available and include numerous photos of the construction taken during the prototype development. Our Husky & Outback include step-by-step instructions as a part of the PLANS. In short, we leave nothing to chance.
Material Listings & Layouts: All campers, travel trailers, and pick-up covers have material listings of wood and fastenings for the basic structure so you can determine costs before construction begins. Camper plans come with material layouts so you can cut the plywood with a minimum of waste. Travel Trailers have listings which tell you what plywood panels to use and where.
Patterns: Only GLEN-L provides a real full size patterns system to simplify and speed construction of the sidewalls of your camper, travel trailer, or pick-up cover. No additional layouts are required. You assemble directly over the pattern sheets we provide thereby assuring the size, shape and symmetry of your recreational vehicle.
With this system you receive a full-length pattern for campers giving all contours and positions of sidewall members. With travel trailers you receive full height patterns giving the contours and positions of sidewall members at front and rear ends to perfectly "key-in" the simple GLEN-L sidewall construction. You also get full size patterns for the wheel well cutouts and for the cambered roof beams of the trailer. We know that the value of our pattern system will exceed many times the price of the package.”
The sidewall typically used in RVs actually works a lot like a trussed beam when the inside paneling is attached to the 1x2s in the side walls and therefore the side wall panel BECOMES PART of the strength of the RV trailer.. This allows the RV manufacturer to use lighter steel beams under the trailer box since the walls strengthen the RV.
The following is discussions on truss beams
HERE
HERE
“Why trusses?
A truss provides depth with less material than a
beam
It can use small pieces
Light open appearance (if seen)
Many shapes possible”
Another very good resource is from a fellow who built a 5th wheel trailer from scratch
Original thread
CHAD'S 5TH WHEEL THREAD #1
Second thread
HERE
A very good read on “composite sandwiches” although the article focuses on the marine applications the principle is the same when used for any lightweight yet strong panels.
I HIGHLY RECOMMEND READING THE ENTIRE ARTICLE IN THE FOLLOWING LINK.
FOAM CORE COMPOSITE
Here is a snip of the link.. but in the link they give some diagrams which should help understanding of the principles.
“Sandwich Principle
The sandwich concept is based on two main ideas: increasing the stiffness in bending of a beam or panel and doing so without adding excessive weight.”
Something else that I have noticed missing in your design is a secondary “emergency egress”, in other words you have only ONE way out of the trailer in case of fire.
If the door gets jammed or the fire is in front of the door you have no other way to get out.. This is critical that you have a secondary egress, typically in RVs you have one door and ONE EMERGENCY EXIT WINDOW. In the case of my TT I have two doors and STILL have a emergency egress window..
Not to harp further on the door thing, it IS easier to make a hasty exit if the door swings outward.. Having a exit door which swings inward will cost you precious seconds of time which may be the difference getting out alive or not..
Inward doors also wastes your usable floor space, a three foot wide door will require a min of a 3’ x 3’ area inside the door which NOTHING can be there.. Not even a shoe. And if you want the inward door to be able to swing more than 90 degrees open then it will take an additional 3 ft of wall space (you need 3’ for door opening plus 3’ for the door to swing against the wall eating up 6' of wall space)..
May-19-2014 07:21 PM
OhhWell wrote:
http://www.coolrunninghs.com/ls090hxv.html
May-19-2014 04:13 PM