Update: On my RV Building Plans....

[myrvplans1]

UPDATE: On my RV building plans

Well, you spoke..... and I listened.

Thank you to all those that provided feedback to me on my RV building plans. Your ideas and suggestions have been very helpful. Some of the things pointed out to me were;

- My trailer was too high. (This was a rendering error and I corrected it) The actual trailer should come in at no more than 11' now.

- I didn't have enough storage. Now I added a storage cabinet over the desk and an access door to storage below the trailer in the back.

- Someone even pointed out that my tongue was not in the right spot and I corrected that.

If you haven't seen my plans to build an RV or you want to see the rendering revisions I made please go to: MY RV PLANS If you have any more suggestions, ideas or feedback I would greatly appreciate it.

Fondly, -Darla

[Shavano]

Thread has degenerated into name calling and flaming.

[myrvplans1]

06Fargo wrote:
There is some great information being put forward.

I think I'm in the spray foam insulation camp as well. #1 issue with every rv we've owned is lack of control of the interior climate. Every tank and system enclosed in the insulated envelope.

A V-nose might be worth taking a look at - we have towed both flat and v-nose cargo/car trailers and there is a difference in power required. The V nose could be used for storage, higher part accessible from inside behind a bulkhead, and the lower for gas bottles, batteries etc with ventilation.

Fargo... I've been told that spray foam works real well for climate control and sound reduction. It also adds to the integrity of the structure. I would consider a V-nose if in fact there was a way to adequately ventilate the batteries I would put in there. Thanks. -Darla

[myrvplans1]

Dennis Smith wrote:
Darla, can you tell us what kind of camping you want to do. Are you planning on not using camp grounds at all? Just don't understand why your spending so much money where it doesn't look like a camper. But steps going up to the door lights coming out around the curtains, really does make it look like a camper. And I for one don't want someone knocking on my door at 2AM telling me this is a no parking zone, or worse yet, having someone hook up to my TV and start towing my rig away. I have read your post and just don't understand why your doing what your doing?

Dennis, I'm hoping to avoid campgrounds as much as I can. I bought a number of campground memberships years back and found that once you start that circuit you travel tethered to them. This time around I am hoping for an RV experience where I can travel anywhere without having to schedule campground stops. I'm not up for the 2am knock either, but I traveled all over the west coast for 3 years and did dozens of stay-overs in all sorts of places and didn't really get hassled by anyone. The key is to always asking permission. And as long as you don't drag out the carpet and lawn chairs most won't challenge you. I once parked in a California police departments parking lot for a night and they said fine. With an electric awning, 2 windows, a roof mounted ac, and propane tanks it's gonna be hard to pretend the vehicle is anything but an RV. I'm not really going for "stealth", just an appearance that doesn't invite unwanted attention. Thanks for the feedback. -Darla

[noteven]

There is some great information being put forward.

I think I'm in the spray foam insulation camp as well. #1 issue with every rv we've owned is lack of control of the interior climate. Every tank and system enclosed in the insulated envelope.

A V-nose might be worth taking a look at - we have towed both flat and v-nose cargo/car trailers and there is a difference in power required. The V nose could be used for storage, higher part accessible from inside behind a bulkhead, and the lower for gas bottles, batteries etc with ventilation.

[Gdetrailer]

Dennis Smith wrote:
Darla, can you tell us what kind of camping you want to do. Are you planning on not using camp grounds at all? Just don't understand why your spending so much money where it doesn't look like a camper. But steps going up to the door lights coming out around the curtains, really does make it look like a camper. And I for one don't want someone knocking on my door at 2AM telling me this is a no parking zone, or worse yet, having someone hook up to my TV and start towing my rig away. I have read your post and just don't understand why your doing what your doing?

Darla is a troll.

Basically getting "free" advertisement for her "website".

No one is going to simply start building a website for the sole and single purpose of posting a "plan" of rather preposterous "ideas" (I suspect perhaps attempting to "market" or "sell" her "idea" in a way of getting around forum rules)..

Comes here, posts some outlandish bs about spending $100K on HER "idea" of what RVs SHOULD look like and function like USING a cargo trailer..

Says silly things like "the customers don't know what they want"..

It is nothing more than a ploy to gain attention and it isn't just this website, she has been making rounds on other RV websites..

This thread just needs to be left alone and be buried into the abyss of neglect..

I am done with her silliness and adding her to my ignore list..

[Dennis_Smith]

Darla, can you tell us what kind of camping you want to do. Are you planning on not using camp grounds at all? Just don't understand why your spending so much money where it doesn't look like a camper. But steps going up to the door lights coming out around the curtains, really does make it look like a camper. And I for one don't want someone knocking on my door at 2AM telling me this is a no parking zone, or worse yet, having someone hook up to my TV and start towing my rig away. I have read your post and just don't understand why your doing what your doing?

[sacmarata]

Just joined the forum and was reading this thread and trying to glean some good ideas out of the mess that it's become. My father has a 28' Kodiak TT he has customized for cold weather camping and stays comfy in 30* weather with just a single space heater. As he indicates, it's the mouse holes that get you. You can use the most efficient insulation on the market but one cable hole with an 1/8" gap around it will suck in cold air if there is even the smallest opening somewhere else.
An experiment he showed me in my home that worked wonders for me was to take a balloon and counter weight it to be sationary so it has no lift or drop. Release the balloon and watch it follow your draft.

I agree with the spray foam insulation for mobile applications. It will stay put and what it lacks in R factor is made up for in the little nooks and crannies it fills that would be left with standard insulation.

The camper you are making sounds like a bug out vehicle to me. I've considered the same but on a much more basic level. I can't understand those that would assume such basic amenities would be bad or wrong for you. If you told me it needed a peacock cage on the roof I would begin thinking, "Well, how is she gonna do that? Theres gotta be a way" ...not..."well that's ridiculous."

I grew up surrounded by engineers who looked at everything practically and am very intigued by your idea. Please keep us informed and try not to return hurt for hurt when someone gets under your skin or makes a remark that challenges your pride. It's hard to do, but remember, usually, that's all the other person is doing as well.

Y'all keep at. theres still lots of good info in this thread, even with the mess 🙂

[OhhWell]

myrvplans1 wrote:

OhhWell wrote:
http://www.coolrunninghs.com/ls090hxv.html

What is that? Does it need venting?

It is an insanely efficient AC / heat pump unit that uses an inverter powered variable speed compressor. It only pulls about 900W at max output. It's unfortunate that they don't make these things completely DC yet but well, there aren't any 12V dc AC units at all and the 24V models I believe are too big. Also, since it is an inverter powered DC motor, there is no High amp hard starting draw.

Anyway, if after trading blows you still want to believe you are open to suggestions, here are my thoughts:

Number one, do stick with the small residential fridge. It looks like you can avoid having a propane system altogether and that is a good things these days (with proper planning of course). Instead of having the batteries on the A frame, make some use of the raised floor and build a large vented compartment for a huge battery bank under the couch. Access could be from under the couch or a door and sliding tray on the outside. I would say under the couch if possible to avoid having to run longer wires.

You should be able to fit about 12 GC6s in there. that should give you about 650-700 Amp Hours to draw from before hitting the 50% depletion limit. With 6 effective 12V cells, the amp draw can be 120 amps constant and stay within the 20amp ratings for each battery. That means you can pull 1440 Watts out of the bank constantly and get the full 650 amps.

Instead of the battery box on the trailer A frame, you then mount the condenser portion of that AC system I linked and maybe build a box around it with proper ventilation to protect it from rocks and such when traveling. The indoor portion could simply be placed above the couch. I linked to the LG unit but I have heard there are or were Sanyo band units similar that could be set to run only at lower wattage, as low as 300 Watts running. Obviously your cooling BTUs are reduced as well but how efficient is that to be able to dynamically size your AC unit as camping conditions change?

Spend a few bucks on a quality Pure Sine wave Inverter/ Converter with a high inverter capacity. I am not familiar with what is out in the market these days but something like this:

http://www.campingworld.com/shopping/item/nature-power-sine-wave-inverter-chargers-3000-watt-with-150-amp-battery-charger-and-remote-control-panel/67193

So, with a 650 Ah battery bank to pull from, the AC at about 850 Watts (7.3 amps x 115 volts) could run non stop for about 8 hours taking inverter overhead into account. Obviously it is not going to run that much in a small well insulated trailer but that would be the capacity. Unless you open it a lot, the small residential fridge is not going to pull much power overnight either.

Of course, the draw and capacity are only part of the equation. You have to recharge the huge battery bank after running it down. The obvious thing to look to first is solar. Since the AC wouldn't be on the roof, you have a lot more of the limited real estate available. I know you said no skylight in your plans but I don't know if you are putting a roof vent up there? If not, all you would need is a vent for the grey tank since you will be pooping in little bags.

Personally, I would have a lightweight aluminum frame built to sit above the roof for the solar panels to be mounted on. This eliminates all the mounting screws in the roof as well as providing a single structure to remove if the roof ever needed repair. Also, it will soak up the heat from the sun and keep the roof of the trailer nice and shaded. I pulled up a simple mono crystal 100 Watt solar panel on amazon and it was rougly 4' long by 2' wide. On a box that is 16' x 8', you could possibly get 16 panels up there for a max of 1600 Watts or 133 max amps of charging to the battery bank not accounting for overhead on the charger. At full sun in bulk mode dumping say 100 amps into the batteries with the charger in bulk mode, it would bring the battery bank up to 80% in about 5 ½ hours. That would be assuming nothing else in the trailer is pulling power at the same time. Unfortunately, getting the battery bank to 100% takes a LONG since the charger will drop down the voltage so as not to boil the batteries.

All in all, I think it is very doable especially since you understand that you will have to bring along a quiet generator to supplement the solar. Also, getting a second alternator installed in your tow vehicle dedicated to feeding the camper through the 7 pin connector would be nice.

Get rid of the propane tanks. In the scenario I outlined you will have more than enough tongue weight to begin with. You have looked at how weight is distributed in this thing right?

GDE's awesome rebuild of an older camper and his concerns about the long term weather resistance of a cargo trailer brings up a thought: Since you are going to have to remove the walls anyhow to raise the roof height, what if you did something like he did with fiberglass composite panels for all the sides with the fiberglass wrap on all the seams then glue the cargo trailer like edge covering metal back over the seams to retain the stealth look? There may be a few reasons why that wouldn't work and cost being one of them but who knows.

[Huntindog]

myrvplans1 wrote:

Huntindog wrote:
A couple of thoughts. Are you stuck on 15'?
It occurred to me that since most building materials are 4x8 standardized, that making the TT box 16' would likely yield some savings in labor, and not add any to the cost of materials. Most of the materials cut off over 15' will just be thrown away, and you would be paying someone to do it!. An extra foot would not be noticed at all when towing, but could make a substantial impact on the interior, at basically zero cost.
It may not work out to exactly 1 foot of extra room, and you would have to have the cargo trailer selected in order to plan it that close.
You would hate to be a inch short in the materials.
But some detailed construction planning couild pay some dividends.

In another post, we talked about how to handle the rear door. IIRCC, you said that the trailer builder could just wall it off.
I think that keeping the doors, if they are the swing open type could have some advantages.
First off it would keep the stealth mode consistent with your desire to not look like a camper.

Next is it would make the construction a LOT easier. If the rear is walled off, then everything will need to be brought in thru the small entry door. This will slow things down considerably and drive up the labor cost.
You could make a sort of false wall back there for when the doors were open, or have a screen wall like some toy haulers have. Might be nice sometimes to have some extra ventilation
Another thought: If you got a ramp rear door, you could use it as a patio. I have even seen pics of a toy hauler with this setup with the ramp hanging out over a lake, so that they could fish off of their own "dock" It looked pretty cool

Finally with the raised floor plan, if the rear doors were still there, you could access the area under the floor just by opening the doors. The possibilities here are endless. You could install some of those long slide out drawers like some camper shell kits have. One could even store one of those fold up canoes in there. Obviously, some of this space will be occupied by tanks etc. so thinking this out in advance would be necessary.

THANK YOU HUNTINDOG! I've been waiting all day to respond to your post. I really appreciate your feedback. Good stuff.

1) I think you're absolutely right about having to go to 16'. They seem to make the base cargo trailers in even lengths. The extra 12" could help out in a few areas. (When they say something like an 16x8 cargo trailer are they referring to a 16' box length or 16' from the rear bumper to the tongue hitch?)In the TT world, they generally measure from tongue to rear bumper, though sometimes the model number may be the box size.(really can't depend on that though as their is no consistency).
I am pretty sure that in the cargo world, they go by box size, though it may vary by manufacturer.
Best to make this a inquiry as it is a big difference likely 3-4'.

2) I like your idea about keeping the ramp door as a patio or to appear more "stealth-like." But, I ask the question... with an awning a/c and vent on roof, 2 windows and propane tanks haven't I overplayed my stealth hand? There are a bunch of guys online that built stealth cargo conversions with no windows (People want my head on a pike cause I only have 2 and they think I should have more), so I'm not sure I'm gonna fly under the radar even omitting the RV swirl graphics. How far you want to fly under the radar is totally up to you. I just mentioned it as a side benefit to your already mentioned desire. The further you stray from this, the faster it will be recognized for what it really is.
Though you just mentioned that as far as resale goes (I am not advocating that as a primary goal) that even though this TT may have a very limited market as a TT, that it could always be sold as a cargo trailer. This wouldn't be true if there was no cargo door. It may well be cost prohibitive to retrofit a cargo door, as some of the support structure for one may not have been installed at the factory.

3) While initially I was describing it as a "raised floor plan", it's not exactly that. There was an artist rendering error in my first set of drawings which showed it as a skyscraper on wheels.... it's since been corrected) I told the artist to "draw the vehicle so the floor plan laid out over the wheel wells creating sort of a basement".... he took that to mean add a basement area in addition to the area above the wheel wells. The trailer now comes in at around 11'-11.5' in height.... about 4" higher than my previous 31' TT.I wasn't thinking of overall height at all.
I was figuring that you were designing a flat floor from front to rear just to eliminate the wheel wells from intruding into the living quarters. Is this not the case?

If my thinking was correct, then there will be a basement of sorts. This area could be utilized many ways. Accessing it from the rear cargo doors is one way to do it.

As I mentioned before, in a typical RV build the walls are one of the last things to go up.
I toured the Sabre plant and saw this first hand. I even have pics of it. It looks really weird to see a almost compete TT with no walls. The plant manager explained that the walls would just get in the way in such small units.
Think about how restricted the access will be in your build with only a small side door.
I think that the increase in labor hours due to this will be pretty substantial.

Thank you again! Regards, -Darla

As you have garnered by now, I do a lot of modifications to my TTs just to suit myself. So far I have just modified TTs that I bought with the major features that I like, as a base from which build on.
Doing as you are proposing would be a lot of fun, though I would likely do the labor myself. Maybe some day I will have the time to do it.

[myrvplans1]

tonyandkaren wrote:

Gdetrailer wrote:


The following document is my second and current rebuild, it took me 2 1/2 years to do, worked on it nearly every night and weekends.

KOMFORT REBUILD

Nice job on the trailer rebuild Gdetrailer! Your experiences with factory built trailers shows why some people such as Darla chose to build using a cargo trailer. No doubt her trailer will weigh more and be expensive but she's getting a very solid, practically leak proof base to finish out exactly as she wants it. It's not something the majority of RVs would want but from reading her blog and the posts on this thread, I'm believe that she's going to be living in the trailer fulltime for years with no intention of selling it. I certainly don't agree with all of her ideas but I'm very interested in seeing the finished product and how she likes it after a few months or years of living in it.


Obviously we all have different wants and needs-just look at how many different types of RVs are manufactured. But what Darla wants isn't being made so custom is a good way to get it. I'm not sure where all of the animosity on this thread is coming from. It doesn't make sense to me to get angry about something that doesn't affect you. 🙂

Hi Tony & Karen, I got your message. Sorry I didn't write back. I've been trying to hold the fort down over here. :B I appreciate your sentiments. As for the animosity?... (haha from reading this thread you'd think I owned the LA Clipers) Here's my thoughts on that; I posted a thread trying to get some ideas, suggestions and feedback on my custom RV building plans. After receiving some initial suggestions on my design I responded in some cases explaining (or defending) why I chose to do what I did in my design. What I was hoping for is that the suggester would support that their point was valid by overcoming my design theories and objections. If someones idea can hold up after that it's most likely a good idea. And some did! In a sense what I was asking for was for them to even be more critical of my design while backing up factually their position. (That's more beneficial to me that even someone saying "Great design...Enjoy the trip." Apparently, some with vast and greater RV experience than me felt I had no basis to question their position or further mine and as a result I was described as acting in disregard of "good" advice, or that I wasn't listening or that I was trolling (whatever that is) or that I was building a fantasy vehicle. Then you know how it goes ..once a crowd forms, others join, the pushing starts, a few cars get turned over and then someone starts a fire. But, I gave as good as I got and I don't think anyone stepped over the line.

I have come away with a few really helpful tips. For instance I don't even remember who it was, but somebody asked about why I was going with an AC powered refrigerator if I intended to boondock a majority of the time. It was a real good point even though I had initially thought an inverter made such a refrigerator DC functional. My flag still stands. Best regards, -Darla

[myrvplans1]

Huntindog wrote:
A couple of thoughts. Are you stuck on 15'?
It occurred to me that since most building materials are 4x8 standardized, that making the TT box 16' would likely yield some savings in labor, and not add any to the cost of materials. Most of the materials cut off over 15' will just be thrown away, and you would be paying someone to do it!. An extra foot would not be noticed at all when towing, but could make a substantial impact on the interior, at basically zero cost.
It may not work out to exactly 1 foot of extra room, and you would have to have the cargo trailer selected in order to plan it that close.
You would hate to be a inch short in the materials.
But some detailed construction planning couild pay some dividends.

In another post, we talked about how to handle the rear door. IIRCC, you said that the trailer builder could just wall it off.
I think that keeping the doors, if they are the swing open type could have some advantages.
First off it would keep the stealth mode consistent with your desire to not look like a camper.

Next is it would make the construction a LOT easier. If the rear is walled off, then everything will need to be brought in thru the small entry door. This will slow things down considerably and drive up the labor cost.
You could make a sort of false wall back there for when the doors were open, or have a screen wall like some toy haulers have. Might be nice sometimes to have some extra ventilation
Another thought: If you got a ramp rear door, you could use it as a patio. I have even seen pics of a toy hauler with this setup with the ramp hanging out over a lake, so that they could fish off of their own "dock" It looked pretty cool

Finally with the raised floor plan, if the rear doors were still there, you could access the area under the floor just by opening the doors. The possibilities here are endless. You could install some of those long slide out drawers like some camper shell kits have. One could even store one of those fold up canoes in there. Obviously, some of this space will be occupied by tanks etc. so thinking this out in advance would be necessary.

THANK YOU HUNTINDOG! I've been waiting all day to respond to your post. I really appreciate your feedback. Good stuff.

1) I think you're absolutely right about having to go to 16'. They seem to make the base cargo trailers in even lengths. The extra 12" could help out in a few areas. (When they say something like an 16x8 cargo trailer are they referring to a 16' box length or 16' from the rear bumper to the tongue hitch?)

2) I like your idea about keeping the ramp door as a patio or to appear more "stealth-like." But, I ask the question... with an awning a/c and vent on roof, 2 windows and propane tanks haven't I overplayed my stealth hand? There are a bunch of guys online that built stealth cargo conversions with no windows (People want my head on a pike cause I only have 2 and they think I should have more), so I'm not sure I'm gonna fly under the radar even omitting the RV swirl graphics.

3) While initially I was describing it as a "raised floor plan", it's not exactly that. There was an artist rendering error in my first set of drawings which showed it as a skyscraper on wheels.... it's since been corrected) I told the artist to "draw the vehicle so the floor plan laid out over the wheel wells creating sort of a basement".... he took that to mean add a basement area in addition to the area above the wheel wells. The trailer now comes in at around 11'-11.5' in height.... about 4" higher than my previous 31' TT.

Thank you again! Regards, -Darla

[myrvplans1]

Gdetrailer wrote:
Thought I would dig up a few "resources" which may help to explain some of the pitfalls of Darla's design.. Hopefully you will find some of this info enlightening..

Although the plans are “dated looking” they will give you some insight to typical RV construction and I would recommend the following website for a real good look at actual home built RV plans..

Nothing says you have to follow the plans to the "T" but you will gain some inside knowledge on how a typical RV is constructed.

There are even photos posted by folks who bought and built the plans.

GLEN-L RV PLANS

“GLEN-L is the name of proven quality in the do-it-yourself field, and we gained this reputation simply by offering the best R-V plans available. There may be other so-called "bargain" plans available, however, we doubt that you will find ALL of what we provide in our various Plans & Pattern packages regardless of the price. Remember, the value of a good set of plans will be repaid many times over by preventing mistakes and wasted time, not to mention shoddy construction and possible safety hazards to your family.
Only GLEN-L offers all of these features...

Plans: With our Plans you receive a unique "package" that is complete and intended just for the R-V you have selected. All our plans are intended for amateurs who may have little or no experience reading blueprints. They are based on decades of experience providing plans to the amateur builder and cover all phases of the construction. The quality of our plans is so highly respected that you have no doubt seen them featured many times in national magazine articles.
Instructions: Our voluminous GLEN-L Construction Manuals are furnished with all Campers and Travel Trailers. These manuals are the finest available and include numerous photos of the construction taken during the prototype development. Our Husky & Outback include step-by-step instructions as a part of the PLANS. In short, we leave nothing to chance.

Material Listings & Layouts: All campers, travel trailers, and pick-up covers have material listings of wood and fastenings for the basic structure so you can determine costs before construction begins. Camper plans come with material layouts so you can cut the plywood with a minimum of waste. Travel Trailers have listings which tell you what plywood panels to use and where.
Patterns: Only GLEN-L provides a real full size patterns system to simplify and speed construction of the sidewalls of your camper, travel trailer, or pick-up cover. No additional layouts are required. You assemble directly over the pattern sheets we provide thereby assuring the size, shape and symmetry of your recreational vehicle.
With this system you receive a full-length pattern for campers giving all contours and positions of sidewall members. With travel trailers you receive full height patterns giving the contours and positions of sidewall members at front and rear ends to perfectly "key-in" the simple GLEN-L sidewall construction. You also get full size patterns for the wheel well cutouts and for the cambered roof beams of the trailer. We know that the value of our pattern system will exceed many times the price of the package.”


The sidewall typically used in RVs actually works a lot like a trussed beam when the inside paneling is attached to the 1x2s in the side walls and therefore the side wall panel BECOMES PART of the strength of the RV trailer.. This allows the RV manufacturer to use lighter steel beams under the trailer box since the walls strengthen the RV.

The following is discussions on truss beams

HERE

HERE

“Why trusses?
A truss provides depth with less material than a
beam
It can use small pieces
Light open appearance (if seen)
Many shapes possible”


Another very good resource is from a fellow who built a 5th wheel trailer from scratch

Original thread

CHAD'S 5TH WHEEL THREAD #1

Second thread

HERE

A very good read on “composite sandwiches” although the article focuses on the marine applications the principle is the same when used for any lightweight yet strong panels.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND READING THE ENTIRE ARTICLE IN THE FOLLOWING LINK.

FOAM CORE COMPOSITE

Here is a snip of the link.. but in the link they give some diagrams which should help understanding of the principles.

“Sandwich Principle
The sandwich concept is based on two main ideas: increasing the stiffness in bending of a beam or panel and doing so without adding excessive weight.”


Something else that I have noticed missing in your design is a secondary “emergency egress”, in other words you have only ONE way out of the trailer in case of fire.

If the door gets jammed or the fire is in front of the door you have no other way to get out.. This is critical that you have a secondary egress, typically in RVs you have one door and ONE EMERGENCY EXIT WINDOW. In the case of my TT I have two doors and STILL have a emergency egress window..

Not to harp further on the door thing, it IS easier to make a hasty exit if the door swings outward.. Having a exit door which swings inward will cost you precious seconds of time which may be the difference getting out alive or not..

Inward doors also wastes your usable floor space, a three foot wide door will require a min of a 3’ x 3’ area inside the door which NOTHING can be there.. Not even a shoe. And if you want the inward door to be able to swing more than 90 degrees open then it will take an additional 3 ft of wall space (you need 3’ for door opening plus 3’ for the door to swing against the wall eating up 6' of wall space)..

Okay GDE.... You're a strange bunny hon. I can't tell if you're trying to help me or trying to waterboard me? Your posts are kind of extensive and I am really trying to understand your point. Are you suggesting that a cargo trailer conversion is inferior to a typical fiberglass production trailer? I got it that you don't like the floor plan or that you think I am going to spend too much to do the conversion. But, get back to the cargo trailer for just a sec... are you suggesting that a high quality vehicle can not be produced from a cargo trailer? Are you telling me a company like this (see link) that builds $500,000 conversions can't figure out a way to put a shower enclosure, bed and 48" kitchen counter in a 15' cargo trailer??? Are you telling me that a company like this that builds high tech mobile command centers for Homeland Security hasn't figured out a way to properly insulate or is going to do "shoddy construction?" (and there's dozen others like this company)

http://www.beckercustomtrailers.com/trailers/custom

Addressing you point about reselling in the future; First, all trailers, motor homes, Class B, C or whatever depreciate the minute you drive off the dealers lot. So in building this trailer I am not giving any thought to it's value years later...only to the value it is to me now. For example I'd rather have no oven and more space now than put one in so I can get an extra $400 selling 6 years from now. (And incidentally my internet research reveals many consumers are also opting to omit an oven/stove from their new RV purchases so it's not quite the radical idea that's implied.)

Now I can tell you that even with my limited knowledge of RV building construction I did employ what I think are smart design decisions which might add to resale value if I ever did decide to sell it;

1) There are no slideouts, no steps, no odd shaped areas... it's a simple open rectangle design with 4 straight walls. Meaning, once a solid structure is built and the key components are installed (tanks, vents, a/c, etc.) the rest is just cabinetry and so it can be gutted easily an remodeled. So if in the year 2021 it was mandated by law that all trailers have ovens I could have one installed in an afternoon. If someone wanted to add another bunk that could be done. If someone wanted to add a flush toilet, a door to the shower, a door to the bathroom or change the vinyl flooring it could all be done easily.

2) Okay, here's the biggie. Ready? No matter what I do this cargo trailer (even if I put the entry door on the roof) it will always be worth at least something as a cargo trailer or hauler of something. (Whereas an an old gutted fiberglass RV isn't really worth anything except to someone that wants to do a complete rebuild such as you did (how big is that demographic?)

You noted that my floor plan did not have another point of egress. Please look again. It has a small rear emergency hatch type door (not unlike the door you would see on the back of a school bus) that only opens outward. I didn't want to put it in, but I just didn't want to have that regret. Also, both windows are egress windows that push out.

While I was waiting at the airport today I was looking at trailer rebuild you posted. You are quite a talented carpenter. I'm not sure I like things like an air conditioner on the floor, but it looks as if you put some time into it. I understand that you did this as a hobby project, but what do you think your 2-3 years of labor time were worth? Thank you for all your comments. Regards, -Darla

[myrvplans1]

OhhWell wrote:
http://www.coolrunninghs.com/ls090hxv.html

What is that? Does it need venting?

[Gdetrailer]

Thought I would dig up a few "resources" which may help to explain some of the pitfalls of Darla's design.. Hopefully you will find some of this info enlightening..

Although the plans are “dated looking” they will give you some insight to typical RV construction and I would recommend the following website for a real good look at actual home built RV plans..

Nothing says you have to follow the plans to the "T" but you will gain some inside knowledge on how a typical RV is constructed.

There are even photos posted by folks who bought and built the plans.

GLEN-L RV PLANS

“GLEN-L is the name of proven quality in the do-it-yourself field, and we gained this reputation simply by offering the best R-V plans available. There may be other so-called "bargain" plans available, however, we doubt that you will find ALL of what we provide in our various Plans & Pattern packages regardless of the price. Remember, the value of a good set of plans will be repaid many times over by preventing mistakes and wasted time, not to mention shoddy construction and possible safety hazards to your family.
Only GLEN-L offers all of these features...

Plans: With our Plans you receive a unique "package" that is complete and intended just for the R-V you have selected. All our plans are intended for amateurs who may have little or no experience reading blueprints. They are based on decades of experience providing plans to the amateur builder and cover all phases of the construction. The quality of our plans is so highly respected that you have no doubt seen them featured many times in national magazine articles.
Instructions: Our voluminous GLEN-L Construction Manuals are furnished with all Campers and Travel Trailers. These manuals are the finest available and include numerous photos of the construction taken during the prototype development. Our Husky & Outback include step-by-step instructions as a part of the PLANS. In short, we leave nothing to chance.

Material Listings & Layouts: All campers, travel trailers, and pick-up covers have material listings of wood and fastenings for the basic structure so you can determine costs before construction begins. Camper plans come with material layouts so you can cut the plywood with a minimum of waste. Travel Trailers have listings which tell you what plywood panels to use and where.
Patterns: Only GLEN-L provides a real full size patterns system to simplify and speed construction of the sidewalls of your camper, travel trailer, or pick-up cover. No additional layouts are required. You assemble directly over the pattern sheets we provide thereby assuring the size, shape and symmetry of your recreational vehicle.
With this system you receive a full-length pattern for campers giving all contours and positions of sidewall members. With travel trailers you receive full height patterns giving the contours and positions of sidewall members at front and rear ends to perfectly "key-in" the simple GLEN-L sidewall construction. You also get full size patterns for the wheel well cutouts and for the cambered roof beams of the trailer. We know that the value of our pattern system will exceed many times the price of the package.”


The sidewall typically used in RVs actually works a lot like a trussed beam when the inside paneling is attached to the 1x2s in the side walls and therefore the side wall panel BECOMES PART of the strength of the RV trailer.. This allows the RV manufacturer to use lighter steel beams under the trailer box since the walls strengthen the RV.

The following is discussions on truss beams

HERE

HERE

“Why trusses?
A truss provides depth with less material than a
beam
It can use small pieces
Light open appearance (if seen)
Many shapes possible”


Another very good resource is from a fellow who built a 5th wheel trailer from scratch

Original thread

CHAD'S 5TH WHEEL THREAD #1

Second thread

HERE

A very good read on “composite sandwiches” although the article focuses on the marine applications the principle is the same when used for any lightweight yet strong panels.

I HIGHLY RECOMMEND READING THE ENTIRE ARTICLE IN THE FOLLOWING LINK.

FOAM CORE COMPOSITE

Here is a snip of the link.. but in the link they give some diagrams which should help understanding of the principles.

“Sandwich Principle
The sandwich concept is based on two main ideas: increasing the stiffness in bending of a beam or panel and doing so without adding excessive weight.”


Something else that I have noticed missing in your design is a secondary “emergency egress”, in other words you have only ONE way out of the trailer in case of fire.

If the door gets jammed or the fire is in front of the door you have no other way to get out.. This is critical that you have a secondary egress, typically in RVs you have one door and ONE EMERGENCY EXIT WINDOW. In the case of my TT I have two doors and STILL have a emergency egress window..

Not to harp further on the door thing, it IS easier to make a hasty exit if the door swings outward.. Having a exit door which swings inward will cost you precious seconds of time which may be the difference getting out alive or not..

Inward doors also wastes your usable floor space, a three foot wide door will require a min of a 3’ x 3’ area inside the door which NOTHING can be there.. Not even a shoe. And if you want the inward door to be able to swing more than 90 degrees open then it will take an additional 3 ft of wall space (you need 3’ for door opening plus 3’ for the door to swing against the wall eating up 6' of wall space)..