Water pressure regulator -- Fail?

[mleekamp]

We just got back from a great trip to Cheyenne Mtn State Park. But here's the thing....

At all our stops we had water hook up. I used a water regulator with a gauge...hoping to get a read on the pressure. It read from 70 to 80 psi depending on the campground we were at. Laugh if you wish, but "just in case" I added my non-gauged regulator before the gauged regulator...both supposed to regulate to 45-50 psi. Again, gauge reads 7-80 psi. So, I ended up filling the tank and using the pump.

Question is, why would something set to regulate to 45-50 psi still show high pressure? Even with water running, it was too high. I worried about it to the point I did not just hook it up but filled the tank.

[gmw_photos]

hddecker wrote:


Looks like it had some kind of mechanical pressure regulation in there.

Question, did you ever see the dial gauge move into the yellow or red?

Yes, the gauge worked normal when it was new. Then it stopped working so I didn't trust the regulator so I just tossed it aside and bought a new one. Could be this this was still working ok ( pretty sure, it ain't no more ! 🙂 ).
I went ahead and bought a more expensive one ( different brand ) and it seemed to work ok for about six months, then it's dial too malfunctioned. Took it back to camping world and they gave me a new one just like it, and so far it seems fine. Seems like at least on the ones I have had, the dial gauge is perhaps the cheapskate part of the device.
And yes you are right, this one had a spring and plunger assembly. What it lacked was any sort of external adjustment.
The new, more expensive one I bought has an adjustment screw on it.

Edit: ..and yes, Westend, I'll keep the idea of the refrigerator in mind ! :B So far, my fridge is working a-ok though !

[westend]

gmw photos wrote:
...all right you guys ! You pushed me over to the bandsaw. I had this old Camco $20 regulator that I had tossed aside because the gauge no longer registered and I was not sure if it worked to reg pressure or not. I grabbed a pic of what it looked like new from their website, and here is what's inside :B

Edit: needless to say the spring kinda got mangled as the saw ripped and shredded through there, but I trust you can imagine it's place in there.

Good stuff!
Hey, I was always wondering what the inside of the fridge coils looked like. As long as you have the saw warmed up........:B

BTW, good hand on that cut, I bet it wasn't too easy to get a straight cut.

[hddecker]

gmw photos wrote:
...all right you guys ! You pushed me over to the bandsaw. I had this old Camco $20 regulator that I had tossed aside because the gauge no longer registered and I was not sure if it worked to reg pressure or not. I grabbed a pic of what it looked like new from their website, and here is what's inside :B

Edit: needless to say the spring kinda got mangled as the saw ripped and shredded through there, but I trust you can imagine it's place in there.

Looks like it had some kind of mechanical pressure regulation in there.

Question, did you ever see the dial gauge move into the yellow or red?

[gmw_photos]

...all right you guys ! You pushed me over to the bandsaw. I had this old Camco $20 regulator that I had tossed aside because the gauge no longer registered and I was not sure if it worked to reg pressure or not. I grabbed a pic of what it looked like new from their website, and here is what's inside :B

Edit: needless to say the spring kinda got mangled as the saw ripped and shredded through there, but I trust you can imagine it's place in there.

[Bumpyroad]

incidently if one wanted to use the small flow restricter pressure regulator he could use two in parallel to double the flow rate. I used two filters in parallel to get an adequate flow myself.
bumpy

[myredracer]

I would love to see a flow/pressure chart to prove what the performance characteristics are, but I have been unable to find anything for these cheapie "regulators". I'd also be interested in seeing a cross-sectional diagram if someone thinks there is something other than a hole inside these things. I would say there is a reason why they don't publish this info.

I have an Aqua Pro regulator in front of me and it has a small hole in it and it's only visible from one end. You can't see daylight through it because it has a sort of diverter "plate" at one end which is fixed in place and behind the filter screen if you remove it. The hole appears to be less than 1/16". If you look down the barrel, the internal part from where the hole is to the opposite side where the plate is, is only about 1/4" long - no room for a regulating mechanism.

These are all basically identical with a hole in them. There is definitely no diaphragm and no spring that together control pressure.

The diagram in this link shows how a typical fixed orifice "regulator" works. They don't even call it a regulator, they call it a restrictor. Note that the outlet pressure depends entirely on what the flow is and that the lower the flow is, the closer the outlet pressure is to the inlet pressure and to the point with zero flow, the pressure is the same on both sides of the "regulator". fixed orifice flow/pressure diagram

[ScottG]

Not seeing the hole:



In fact I can see the mechanism in there:


If it just had a hole then the pressure would creep up to the full input pressure within a few seconds when there was no flow.

[Bumpyroad]

ScottG wrote:

This just isn't true at all. The common regulators most of us use don't have fixed hole in them, they have a spring and diaphragm.

the $9.00 special that lots of folks here use and are included in the RV starter pack sure look like they just have a fixed hole with no springs/diaphragms etc.
bumpy

[ScottG]

myredracer wrote:
The cheapie inline exterior regulators simply have a small fixed orifice (hole) in them of around 1/16" or so. Look inside it and you will see the hole. They are not true regulators and the pressure will equalize on both sides after it sits there with no flow. At zero flow, there is zero differential pressure across it. There is simply no way a fixed diameter hole can control and maintain pressure. Also, the flow rate on these is low at around 1 gpm due to the small orifice size. I put these things in the category of snake oil.

A proper regulator has a diaphragm and spring in it. As the incoming pressure varies, the diaphragm acts against the spring pressure which controls the output pressure. With any diaphragm regulator, you can find a flow/pressure chart from the manufacturer.

With the inline "regulators", they do not publish a flow/pressure chart. If they did, you would find that they do a poor job of regulating. They get away with it because there are no regulations they have to comply with. The average consumer does not understand how regulators work or perhaps even care and they buy it because of what it says on the package and because of the low price. If you use one of these regulators, you are at risk of damage to your water system from excessive pressure.

If you want a REAL regulator, get a Watts 560 or 263A, or equivalent. As good a price here as anywhere else on the internet: RVwaterfilterstore.com

A similar thing happens with water filters. There are no industry regulations. Manufacturers can though, voluntarily certify their filters to NSF standards. I've seen some pretty outlandish claims on filter performance that are not NSF certified. They get away with it on filters too because of no mandatory regulations.

This just isn't true at all. The common regulators most of us use don't have fixed hole in them, they genuinely regulate pressure, otherwise you would see a creep. I routinely connect to to a CG water source that's well in excess of 80 psi but my reg. keeps it to 45~50. And you can look down the insides and see there isn't just a hole in it. Anyone that has one or is contemplating buying one can see this for themselves.

For some reason some people get all riled up when it's suggested they could have bought a $12 part that will work for an RV just as well as an expensive whole house reg.
For RV use a fixed high flow regulator will work perfectly fine and you will not notice any difference in flow between it and and a whole house regulator because our rigs just don't demand that much volume.

[Farm_Camp]

My elcheapo regulator must do something to regulate pressure. I was recently at Fort Wilderness and the thing started making a really weird tapping/clicking noise and completely shut off the flow of water whenever it was doing so. This only happened at certain times of the day and only has happened at this one campground. I spent less than $10 bucks on it. I figure a more expensive one prolly would done a better job - more than just shut the flow down completely(?)

[Bumpyroad]

is that gauge reading incoming or outgoing water pressure?
bumpy

[myredracer]

The cheapie inline exterior regulators simply have a small fixed orifice (hole) in them of around 1/16" or so. Look inside it and you will see the hole. They are not true regulators and the pressure will equalize on both sides after it sits there with no flow. At zero flow, there is zero differential pressure across it. There is simply no way a fixed diameter hole can control and maintain pressure. Also, the flow rate on these is low at around 1 gpm due to the small orifice size. I put these things in the category of snake oil.

A proper regulator has a diaphragm and spring in it. As the incoming pressure varies, the diaphragm acts against the spring pressure which controls the output pressure. With any diaphragm regulator, you can find a flow/pressure chart from the manufacturer.

With the inline "regulators", they do not publish a flow/pressure chart. If they did, you would find that they do a poor job of regulating. They get away with it because there are no regulations they have to comply with. The average consumer does not understand how regulators work or perhaps even care and they buy it because of what it says on the package and because of the low price. If you use one of these regulators, you are at risk of damage to your water system from excessive pressure.

If you want a REAL regulator, get a Watts 560 or 263A, or equivalent. As good a price here as anywhere else on the internet: RVwaterfilterstore.com

A similar thing happens with water filters. There are no industry regulations. Manufacturers can though, voluntarily certify their filters to NSF standards. I've seen some pretty outlandish claims on filter performance that are not NSF certified. They get away with it on filters too because of no mandatory regulations.

[downtheroad]

I sprung for one of these...excellent. Adjustable, 4.5 gal per minute flow, Stainless Steel parts.

LINK

[ScottG]

The "cheap" regulators are not just flow restrictors. I've been using them for 25 years with a gauge and they all restricted pressure to around 45 psi - regardless of flow rate.
It sounds like yours has failed. Replace it with a Valtera "High flow" regulator and you'll have ample volume regulated to a safe level. Expect to pay around $12.