Weight question

[Mi2bugz]

I have a:

2012 Dodge Ram 1500 4.7L V8 65RFE trans quad cab 4x2 Rambox 6'4" bed
GVWR 6700
GAWR 3700 front / 3900 rear
GCWR 11,250
3.55 axle
Bumper says: 5000 lbs max gross trailer weight / 500 lbs max tongue weight

RV dealer says trailer life towing guide says can tow 7300 (I see that also) BUT ram trucks.com says max trailer 5950. They recommend the husky weight distribution hitch.

We were looking at a 2018 Avenger ATI 27DBS based on the towing guides limits. Actual weight is 6450 tongue weight 742 (tongue weight not actually weighed on scale...yet).Only 3 occupants on average 250 lbs per person (per dealer) in TT. RV dealer says we do NOT need to include weight of passengers and TV cargo in weight factor (GCWR). Unless I read it wrong...I read you DO need to factor in passengers, gas and TV cargo. So since reading ram trucks.com limits I am second guessing choice.

My questions are:

1) what weights do I go by (I am guessing manufacturer for safety/insurance/NHTSA/DOT regulations)?

2) after telling dealer about my concerns the dealer says (in writing...text message) "GM said you should be able to pull that camper still", "I can't see your truck only being able to pull 5900 lbs and being a V8". Being a V8 I was surprised to see the weight listed by manufacturer as 5950. Does that sound low for a V8?

3) does weight distribution hitch allow hitch to hold more weight then bumper states (500 max tongue)

4) at 6450 TT weight I need to be between 645 and 967 (10-15%) on the tongue correct?

5) I have ridden in a TV towing a TT before and felt extremely ill from my the push and pull (no up and down or side/side) motion. Is the forward/backward motion normal when pulling TT's? If it is normal...can anything help reduce it?

6) we only have 3 payments left on truck so we really don't want to have a truck and TT payment. Are my only options upgrading the TV if we really want the Avenger? Or are there modifications to the TV we can make to make it capable of towing 6450 and supplies...legally?

Sorry lots of questions but would like some insight from people with experience NOT making a commission. TYIA ~ Nicole

[Bobbo]

I have decided to answer twice in a row because there is so much here.

Mi2bugz wrote:
RV dealer says trailer life towing guide says can tow 7300 (I see that also) BUT ram trucks.com says max trailer 5950. They recommend the husky weight distribution hitch.

Trailer life is quoting max ratings for a truck configured just to tow. It has no bearing on YOUR truck. Ignore trailer life.

Mi2bugz wrote:
We were looking at a 2018 Avenger ATI 27DBS based on the towing guides limits. Actual weight is 6450

Is that dry weight or GVWR of the trailer. Massively different things. If it is dry weight, ignore that number completely and look up GVWR.

Mi2bugz wrote:
tongue weight 742 (tongue weight not actually weighed on scale...yet).Only 3 occupants on average 250 lbs per person (per dealer) in TT. RV dealer says we do NOT need to include weight of passengers and TV cargo in weight factor

This is true because those items are in the truck, not the trailer. The tongue weight is only based on the weight of the trailer as it is being towed. However, all of those weights DO need to be factored into the truck's payload rating.

Mi2bugz wrote:
(GCWR). Unless I read it wrong...I read you DO need to factor in passengers, gas and TV cargo. So since reading ram trucks.com limits I am second guessing choice.

You need to factor them into the truck's payload, but not into the trailer's tongue weight because they are not riding in the trailer.

Mi2bugz wrote:
My questions are:

1) what weights do I go by (I am guessing manufacturer for safety/insurance/NHTSA/DOT regulations)?

The truck manual.

Mi2bugz wrote:
2) after telling dealer about my concerns the dealer says (in writing...text message) "GM said you should be able to pull that camper still", "I can't see your truck only being able to pull 5900 lbs and being a V8". Being a V8 I was surprised to see the weight listed by manufacturer as 5950. Does that sound low for a V8?

The dealer will say whatever will sell a trailer. The weight the truck will tow is affected by the way the truck is configured. The only reliable answers are the door sticker and the manual.

Mi2bugz wrote:
3) does weight distribution hitch allow hitch to hold more weight then bumper states (500 max tongue)

See my answer in my previous post.

Mi2bugz wrote:
4) at 6450 TT weight I need to be between 645 and 967 (10-15%) on the tongue correct?

Yes

Mi2bugz wrote:
5) I have ridden in a TV towing a TT before and felt extremely ill from my the push and pull (no up and down or side/side) motion. Is the forward/backward motion normal when pulling TT's? If it is normal...can anything help reduce it?

There are definitely different motions, but I don't know how to avoid them.

Mi2bugz wrote:
6) we only have 3 payments left on truck so we really don't want to have a truck and TT payment. Are my only options upgrading the TV if we really want the Avenger? Or are there modifications to the TV we can make to make it capable of towing 6450 and supplies...legally?

If the manufacturer says the truck's tow rating is less than 6450, you can't change that. There are things you can do that will increase the truck's capabilities, but they won't change the truck's "rating." However, you are getting into some money for that.

Mi2bugz wrote:
Sorry lots of questions but would like some insight from people with experience NOT making a commission. TYIA ~ Nicole

Sorry about two posts in a row, but I thought I needed to address more than I did in the first post.

[Mi2bugz]

Thank you both!

The WD hitch they were showing us is the husky WD hitch because I didn't want the frame of the truck drilled into creating frame damage. They said it goes around the frame but looking at photo online it looks like it is just another ball slide into where our current generic hitch is.

So if I calculated correctly our payload per manufacturer is 1548 - passenger weight = payload of 1138 at 13% = 8753. So my limiting factor is my max trailer weight of 5950.

So the trailer I wanted is a no go due to engine size. Can't upgrade that lol...so guess it is find another TT or get a new truck!

Is the push/pull normal with all TT's? Not sure I can handle that long distances if it is.

What max weight TT should I stay under to ensure I have weight for supplies etc?

[MitchF150]

Ha... Never even thought of that... I wonder if he is just thinking of plopping that BA trailer on the bumper??

Does that truck even have a tow package?

Mitch

[Bobbo]

Write down all of the ratings and limits on a sheet of paper. The smallest one is your limit.

My F-150 has a hitch tow rating of 12,000#, truck towing rating of 11,800#, a payload rating of 1,895#, a hitch tongue weight rating (w/WD hitch) of 1,200#. My limiting factor is the payload of 1,895#.

1,895# minus 400# for the two of us minus 200# for the topper minus 100# for the WD hitch, leaves us 1,195# for tongue weight and "stuff." At a 13% tongue weight to trailer weight ratio, I can tow 9,200# if I don't carry other "stuff" in the truck. THAT is my tow limit.

On Edit: I want to address your bumper pull. If it truly is a bumper pull (and a lot of pickup trucks DO have a ball on the actual bumper), you can not put a WD hitch on it. It must be a frame mounted receiver for that. So, if it truly is a bumper mounted ball, you are limited to what it says on the bumper unless you go to a hitch shop and get a frame mounted hitch.

[MitchF150]

With the 4.7l engine... I would not want to tow that trailer you have in mind with that engine..

You have to include the passengers when you consider your truck weights.. Not the trailer weights.

That #500/#5000 on the hitch is just the weight carrying limit for that hitch. If you use a WD hitch, it will have a higher trailer weight rating, but you will still be limited by your truck, no matter how much the hitch can handle.

Lots of numbers and weights get thrown around here... It does not all just equal what the paper work says.. So, just gotta do what you gotta do..

Good luck!

Mitch