What do you tow with?

[MargaretB]

We have abandoned our plan to buy a small hybrid and are looking at a number of hard-sided TTs, in the 22'-26' range. We have to buy a new vehicle to tow it with and are thoroughly confused. We've decided that we want an SUV instead of a truck. We've been looking at used vehicles.

A dear friend who tows a 22' Airstream does so with an MB diesel and insists that diesels are the only way to go, because they develop full torque at 2000 rpms instead of 3500 rpms for non-diesel cars. We can't afford an MB, so he recommends a VW Touareg.

We love he idea of smaller "regular" SUV because whatever we buy will tow for maybe 5-10% of the time and b a town car the rest of the time. A local dealer says that the Touareg certainly has the torque to tow at 6000-7000 lb. trailer, but probably does't have the braking power to handle it on a downhill slope. Touareg diesels are incredibly hard to find - we've found three used ones in all of California and can't afford a new one.

We've been looking at Toyota Sequoias and Ford Expeditions, which aren't diesel. Our friend is pooh-poohing those options.

We're hoping not to add another vehicle to the mix, but we're hearing good things about the Tahoe and the Silverado.

So my question is - what do you drive to tow a TT in the range we're considering? How is it working for you? Is there anything else you wish you'd bought instead? What are your thoughts with regard to diesel vs. gas?

[Passin_Thru]

2006 Chevy 2500HD diesel, 6 spd Allison.

[fla-gypsy]

I tow with a F-250 CC 6.8L V-10 with a 4.10 rear gear and it is a towing machine. It is also my daily driver.

[scbwr]

MargaretB wrote:

scbwr wrote:


Decide on what trailer you want.....then pick a tow vehicle that can do the job.

That's what we started to do, but then decided to buy the tow vehicle first and find a TT to go with it. Since this will be one of our two every-day "cars," it seemed more important to us to get what we're comfortable with, and then buy the TT within the limits of what it can pull.

So I'm interested in seeing that you advise us to do the reverse. We're open to any ideas, but why do you suggest that?

I suggest that because it is important to pick a TT that will meet your needs AND won't result in you finding out that you really want something bigger, but your tow vehicle (that you just bought) isn't going to do the job. Secondly, trailer weights are deceptive...the dry weight of a trailer is usually lower than what you actually get because they don't usually include any options in the dry weight.

As an example, my trailer has a dry weight of 4,820 lbs. I also added a slide out topper. So, after getting it and transferring our gear, I had it weighed just before a short trip but without food or drink packed. My trailer ended up weighing around 6200 lbs. And, as I said, that is a really good weight to tow with a 1/2 ton truck. If you figure 15% for the tongue weight, I'm at 9,300 lbs. which is within the truck's payload rating.

So, IMHO, if you are going to buy a larger SUV or truck first, then you better really be certain that you can find a TT that can be towed by whatever you want. I think it far wiser to really look over as many travel trailers as you can see....in person and on line. To play it really safe, look at the trailer's GVW (the maximum it should weight when fully loaded with gear, water, etc.) and use that as a guide for what you should buy.

Finally, I subscribe to the philosophy that you should only pull up to about 80% of the weight for which a TV is rated. I wouldn't ever consider towing between 9-10K with my Tundra even though it is technically rated for 10K. And, you have to subtract the weight of any passengers and gear in the truck for the actual towing capacity, and check the payload. I pulled our old 29' Sunline with it a couple of times, and that trailer weighed around 8-8.5K, and although the Tundra could handle the weight, towing in the mountains would be a struggle.

One more point...we picked our trailer because of it's storage space for a smaller trailer. And, the cargo capacity was adequate to allow for the weight of options and personal gear. Although it's under 27', we are comfortable for taking longer trips and have a 6 week trip planned for next year. As you look at trailers, you really have to think about how you are going to use it, and how much stuff will you need for the things you want to do! Our trailer also has an outdoor kitchen with small bar fridge, and the tv wall is such that we can watch tv whether at the dinette or in bed....something that appealed to us.

Hope this helps....sorry for the long post.

[Mike_Up]

MargaretB wrote:
We have abandoned our plan to buy a small hybrid and are looking at a number of hard-sided TTs, in the 22'-26' range. We have to buy a new vehicle to tow it with and are thoroughly confused. We've decided that we want an SUV instead of a truck. We've been looking at used vehicles.

A dear friend who tows a 22' Airstream does so with an MB diesel and insists that diesels are the only way to go, because they develop full torque at 2000 rpms instead of 3500 rpms for non-diesel cars. We can't afford an MB, so he recommends a VW Touareg.

We love he idea of smaller "regular" SUV because whatever we buy will tow for maybe 5-10% of the time and b a town car the rest of the time. A local dealer says that the Touareg certainly has the torque to tow at 6000-7000 lb. trailer, but probably does't have the braking power to handle it on a downhill slope. Touareg diesels are incredibly hard to find - we've found three used ones in all of California and can't afford a new one.

We've been looking at Toyota Sequoias and Ford Expeditions, which aren't diesel. Our friend is pooh-poohing those options.

We're hoping not to add another vehicle to the mix, but we're hearing good things about the Tahoe and the Silverado.

So my question is - what do you drive to tow a TT in the range we're considering? How is it working for you? Is there anything else you wish you'd bought instead? What are your thoughts with regard to diesel vs. gas?

OK, to start, I don't think your friend really has a clue. I think he feels what he does is the only way, and the right way. I disagree with that.

Myself, I would never own a Volkswagen Touareg. They are foreign vehicles that aren't made in the USA for one (I support American labor). The next is that they are one of the most unreliable vehicles made. The Volkswagen Touareg is not recommended to use a weight distribution hitch which limits you to really light tongue weights of only 617 lbs even though the max tow rating is 7716 lbs!

Using an average formula to calculate your hitch weight (13%) will help find your max tow weight. Also most people load their vehicles 1500 lbs to 1700 lbs over the "BROCHURE" dry weight. Dry factory delivered weight is usually 200 - 300 lbs heavier than the Dry "BROCHURE" weight, when options are added.

So take that 617 lbs and divide by .13 to see what total loaded trailer weight you can have on the hitch. That is 4746 lbs. Now subtract 1500 lbs from that to give you a brochure weight of only 3246 lbs !!!!

Yes, I been there already with my weak 2005 Nissan Pathfinder (made in Tennessee 🙂 ) with it's low 600 lbs tongue rating.

You are pretty much stuck to a Pop Up camper or very VERY small travel trailer as the Forest River R-Pods.

Your buddy is most likely overloading his hitch.

Now thanks to the Touaregs incompatibility to use a weight distribution hitch, weight is likely overloading the rear axle while not enough weight is on the front axle especially during wet driving. The light weight on the front axle could lead to steering failure on wet slick roads.

The Touareg would be the last vehicle I would ever buy to tow a travel trailer. For a Pop Up, yes, not a travel trailer.

Obviously the toaregs tow rating is for "BOATS" .. The 617 lbs is right at the average 8% tongue weight of a boat/trailer and boat trailers don't usually use weight distribution hitches (although they should over 500 lbs).

Now you didn't specify the actual trailer size you wanted, 22' to 26' bumper to tongue (which is the correct way to size a trailer) or the guessing on the model number which is usually 3' to 5' shorter than the actual length of the trailer?

A true 22' bumper to hitch travel trailer will be extremely hard to find with such a light tongue weight. A 19' Ultralight, Ultra-small trailer as the R-Pod, 'could' work.

Also keep in mind that you'll likely need at least 1200 lbs of payload for a small family of 3 or 1400 lbs for a small family of 4. Most crossover SUVs in the touaregs size offer only 800 lbs.

I would suggest a large Expedition XL or Suburban to tow a 26' trailer with a very VERY good Anti-sway weight distribution device, as Pro-pride, Hensley, Reese Strait line or maybe even a Equ-ali-zer brand.

You need the best anti sway protection because of the short wheelbase of the Suburban or Expedition XL. The shorter versions of these are best left to shorter trailers. Also make sure you have at least 1500 lbs of payload for a small family and heavier tongue weight of a 26' trailer. The Suburban and Expedition XL may be less than that pushing you to a 3/4 ton Suburban.

Now back to that touaregs diesel. You need Horsepower just as much as torque, to keep you going and that diesel engine is anemic. Torque gets you going and horsepower keeps you going. With the new GM 5.3L and Ford's 5.0L and Ecoboost, you'll have plenty of torque to get the job done and with reserve. Plus you'll have better than 100 more horsepower than the little VW 3.0L Diesel's 240 Hp.

Your best bet for a 26' bumper to hitch trailer is a full size crew cab pickup (appropriately configured) if you want to pull a 26' trailer. But if you have the payload capacity and a very good anti-sway hitch, you may be able to get by with a Suburban or Expedition XL. I wouldn't suggest any other SUVs as they have very short wheelbases and lower payload.

[handye9]

When buying a TV/TT setup, you need to keep all the weights / capacities in mind. If you buy the truck first, you need to understand it's capacities, when shopping for the trailer. If you buy the trailer first, you need to understand it's needs (for towing) when shopping for a truck. Towing at, or near max capacity, is not where you want to be.

Personal experience - weekend trips, I (the driver) would arrive with leg cramps, back ache, neck pains, and sometimes, white knuckles. Windy days were the worst. The pain would subside in 24 - 48 hours, just in time to drive home. The longer the trip, longer the time to recouperate.

Things to watch for:

Buying travel trailer:

Advertised weights won't match actual sticker weight.

Weights, listed on the sticker, are what the trailer weighed when it left the factory. Actual weight will go up, before the trailer leaves a dealer lot. Average load for dishes, pots and pans, groceries, water, and camping gear is 800 - 1000 lbs. Ten to fifteen percent of this, will be added to the tongue weight. Average tongue weight is 12 -13% of loaded trailer weight. A 4000 lb trailer will be around 5000 lbs loaded.

Does the trailer meet all of your needs / wants?


Buying a tow vehicle:

Does it have sufficient room and payload to support all of your planned cargo, passengers, and tongue weight from the trailer?

Forget about advertised numbers for max tow capacity. You will run out of payload, long before you get to that number. Consider everything and everybody you plan to put in, or on, the tow vehicle. Every pound you add, subtracts a pound from that vehicles ratings / capacities. Give yourself some room for unplanned passengers or cargo.

Many manufacturers build a line of vehicles with the same model number and many variations in capacities. F150, for example, can be found with 750 lb payload and 5000 lb tow capacity, there are versions with 3100 lb payload and 11,000 lb tow capacity, and many in between. Not just any F150, could handle the trailers, you are considering. Ford is not alone in doing this.

Lite trucks and SUV's are built for passenger comfort. Specifically, their tires and suspensions are not built for carrying heavy loads.

As many of us can attest to, the first trailer normally leads to a second (bigger) trailer. Is the tow vehicle up to that task?

[mbopp]

MargaretB wrote:
mbopp, how do you define a "small" trailer?

My definition of "small" is an overall length (ball to bumper) of 30' or less. Our 21FBS is 26-1/2' overall.
From our pop-up days we have favorite campgrounds that will only accommodate trailers under 30'. My opinion only - if you go longer than 30' in a non-lightweight trailer you're into a large SUV / heavy payload 1/2-ton, or a 3/4-ton pickup for towing.

[tragusa3]

I may have bought a year too early...An Expedition with Ecoboost and HD towing would have been a better fit for us...still LOVE our truck!

[coolmom42]

A Sequoia will tow that just fine. The Expedition will, too. You don't need a diesel. Quit worrying about what your friend says, and get what suits you.

In your shoes I would go with the Sequoia, they are GREAT vehicles and very comfortable to travel in.

You will slow down a little on a long grade pull, but this is not a speed race, so who cares.

[Cooter_76]

JiminDenver wrote:
The new 2015 Expedition is suppose to come with the Eco boost engine.

According to Ford's website, the 2015 Expy with EcoBoost can be had with a heavy duty towing package, allowing trailer weights up to 9200#.
http://www.ford.com/suvs/expedition/specifications/towing/

It makes 420lb-ft of torque at 2,250 rpm

[MargaretB]

mbopp, how do you define a "small" trailer? The ones we're looking at are between 28' and 29' in length, including tongue. Is that a small trailer? It seems gigantic to me!

So far this morning, we've gone back and forth three times on the truck vs. SUV issue. We don't have anything but other peoples' opinions to go on.But I think we've made progress - we've pretty much decided on the trailer we want: Jayco White Hawk Ultra Lite 26'. It has everything we want (except that one of the bedroom windows is fixed, but perhaps it can be changed to one that opens.)

So progress is being made, but not in the TV realm!

[RobWNY]

We did tow our 27 foot Heartland Trail runner with an F150 with Ecoboost. It weighs around 8,000 pounds when loaded up. Plenty of torque and horsepower with that engine but where we ran short was with payload. With the tongue weight and the weight of me and my wife, we were out of payload. We were also getting close with axle weights so I traded that truck in and bought a 2015 Silverado 2500 HD with the 6.0 Liter V8 Gas engine. It won't win any speed races but it will tow anything that I will ever own and when towing, speed never enters the equation.

[JiminDenver]

We tow a 25 ft trailer in the Rockies with a Expedition. The most I would be comfortable with is 5500-6000 lbs dry leaving room to load and be around 7000 lb. That will reach the tongue weight limit of the Expedition at 900 lbs. Our 07 still has 700 lbs of payload left after hitting that limit.

The new 2015 Expedition is suppose to come with the Eco boost engine.

[rexlion]

The reason why many people advise settling on the trailer first is because too many folks will fall in love with a too-heavy trailer and "have to have it" while ignoring the fact that it's too much trailer for the tow vehicle they have. But really, you are doing ok because you have a pretty good idea what you want trailer-wise and are buying your tug accordingly.

The diesel seems to work better than most gassers because it tows at a lower RPM, thus it sounds like it isn't working as hard. The noise factor is a big psychological issue. But for the trailer size and weight you are considering, a large V8 or an Ecoboost will do fine. Actually the Ford Ecoboost will tow up the grades at somewhat lower RPM because of its turbo which feeds more air into the engine (just like a turbo-diesel). But in the end, whether at 2000 RPM (diesel) or 4000 RPM (V8) you will make it to the top of the hill just fine.

One thing I would make sure the SUV had is a transmission temperature readout. Not just an idiot light that comes on when the trans is already too hot, but an actual readout. That way the driver can monitor the temp on those long climbs and slow down if it's rising too much. Excess heat is the transmission's big enemy.

I like the list of vehicles jerem0621 gave you. Some good choices there, and no need to buy a diesel if you don't feel the allure.

Today's diesels have complexity not seen on the diesels of 10 or 20 years ago. The emissions systems include particulate filters that can clog unless they regenerate regularly, and short commutes can be problematic for regen's. Many if not most new diesels require special low-ash synthetic oil that isn't always available in stores, so you have to buy it online or from the dealer. The MPG advantage is offset by the higher purchase price and often higher fuel cost, so payback takes a long time. Repairs on an aging diesel tend to be higher than for gassers; Chrysler will sell a lifetime max care extended service contract on a gas model, but not on a similar diesel unit, and there must be a reason for that. You have to get used to finding stations with diesel and remembering which nozzle you're grabbing... if you have 1 gasser and 1 diesel, you have to pay attention. And then you have Diesel Exhaust Fluid to add into a separate port, often located next to the fuel port... don't refuel with the brain on autopilot, because a mistake will cost thousands.

[Uplander]

You must size your tow vehicle to exceed the total weight you will be towing. New or used your tow vehicle must be set up for towing. The original window sticker will indicate if your choice was set up with a tow package at the factory. DO NOT EXCEED the towing capacity listed by the manufacturer!
Try to stay under the max tow weight.

Give up any dream of great gas/fuel mileage if you are going to tow. It will not happen. If you live in the north with extreme cold in winter think long and hard before you go diesel as that can be a hassle when the temps take a dive.

Shop with weight in mind when you look at Travel Trailers. I own a Trail Light TT by R-Vision. It is about the lightest quality built unit in it's class. The company quit the Travel Trailer business in Feb of 2014 so if you want one used is the only option. If you can find what you want in top condition on the used marked (lowest price from private sellers) that will save you thousands!!!

In the end quality and weight of the TT comes first then match the tow vehicle to the TT. Read consumers reports to find something that is reliable. I am a big Toyota fan....they are built to last.
Never believe the salesman at a dealership....do your own research. Members of this board will always be here to help but all to often they recommend what they drive which may not fit your lifestyle. All too often the desire is for an SUV and the poster recommends his pick-up truck as the only best option.

Good luck in your search for that "perfect TT"

[mbopp]

I'll echo the posts about the F150 EcoBoost. We had an Envoy but it was marginal towing our hybrid and it wouldn't do for even a small hardside. The EB has a lot of low end torque, 4X4, and a 36-gallon fuel tank. DW wasn't nuts about a PU but it's my daily driver, not hers. And she's come around to its utility both for towing and hauling other stuff.
Our TT weighs 4850# (actual) unloaded so I'm probably in the 5800# range loaded. Even though the F150 has the standard payload rating it handles the TT just fine.

IMHO if you're not full timing and are towing a small trailer I'm not sold on a Diesel. DB's 35'+ toy hauler - yes, his Dodge Diesel is a good match.