Why ST tires?

[UTCoyote]

Hey All,

Total noob, trying to soak all this RV stuff in all at once. The Maxxis ST tires on my recently purchased 2001 TT "look" like new, but I don't know how old they actually are, so don't know how much life I should consider they really have in them. I need to research how to read the date code on them.

When I do buy new ones, I'm wondering why ST's? With their 65 MPH speed limit, there has to be some redeeming properties that make them desirable for TT/RV use?

Without knowing anything - which I don't - on the face of it, seems obvious to put LT's on. They can be had in load ratings plenty heavy enough and not be stuck in the slow lane with the semi's all the time.

- Coyote

[Huntindog]

JJBIRISH wrote:

JIMNLIN wrote:

The rules are pretty simple, the replacement tires must equal or better the tires listed on the vehicles tire placard…

JJ, knows as well as most folks that the tire placard is a recommendation only. When you use the word "Rules" it implies some kind of law. There is no enforcement law that says the replacement tires have to be the same type listed on the placard.
The only enforceable law is roadside. They look for a DOT number and the tire capacity to match the vehicles axle ratings.

if your trailer came with ST225x75x15 in LR D @ 2540 lbs. capacity on the placard you can’t just say you can use a Wrangler HT in LT215x15 LR D @2090 lbs. capacity or in a LT 235x75x15 LR C @ 1980 lbs. capacity, which is what is often recommended in the forums for this situation…

Incorrect.
What I and others have recommended and are actually using is those two 1980-2080 lbs capacity LTs you mention for replacing a ST205/75-15 C at 1820 lbs capacity.

Actually you are incorrect, I know you insist this is not true and have posted so even for my state…
“Jack, you and FastEagle are playing to the tire placard liability thing simply by constantly bring up the issue just like your last post referring to certain tires that have been mentioned wouldn't pass your state inspection. Baloney. FastEagle has tried that trick also.
As long as the tire has enough tread depth and enough load carrying capacity/etc it will pass anyones state safety inspection requirement or even pass the annual fed safety inspection required for a commercial trailer/all vehicles regardless of tire type.”

The PA inspection say… the mfg. that being the trailer mfg. as the one required to correctly placard the vehicle… there are other provisions in the law pertaining to the trailer tires condition and tread also, but I am not about to search them all out right now…

(g) Tires and Rims - The axles of a vehicle
specified under this subchapter shall be
equipped with the number and type of tires
and rims which have a load rating equal to
or higher than those offered by the
manufacturer.

If the placards are only recommendations why do they deserve to be safety recalled so often for having the wrong information on the placards…

There have been recommendations made on the forums based on claimed trailer weights only that have had nothing to do with the trailers placard weights or even the axle weights…

While I haven’t ever made the claim that the tire type must be the same and that is misquoting me, the inspection law does in fact say the same number and type and load rating equal to or higher than…

You consistently accuse myself and others of boxing the tire builders into a corner when they are asked for information only because it don’t agree with your personal positions…
One posters response
We do not recommend using light truck tires on trailers that specify ST tires. If the trailer manufacturer calls for ST tires, it is important to replace with ST tires in order to maintain the load requirement.

Thank you for choosing BFGoodrich.

Your reply
“The OP backed BFG into the liability corner with that type question. He will get the same answer from any LT or P tire maker by asking for a direct replacement for a ST tire.”
And
“If your really interested in using LT tires don't back the tire makers or their dealers into the liability corner. “

Obviously you don’t think these are big boys that know how to answer for themselves…


My e-mail reply from continental tire
Thank you for contacting Customer Relations at Continental Tire the Americas, LLC.

We no longer manufacture ST tires, and the Vanco line is not a suitable alternative.
We would recommend searching for a dedicated ST tire line.

And your reply
“You badgered Vanco with the more canned questions until they gave you the answer you were looking for”
None of these people according to you know how to answer normal questions to their help line… no badgering, no pushing… the answers just don’t back up your opinions...

If you want the answer you are looking for according to your words, be sure to softball your questions

If these companies can’t stand tall on their own feet and recommend a LT tire, no, their LT tire even one with sufficient load capacity as a replacement tire for a ST tire why should I or anyone else assume it’s the thing to do, or assume you and others are their secret information outlet…

And this coming from me someone that generally don’t like the ST tire or their specifications, or their DOT certification requirements, and have voiced this many times, and believe the LT tire is a better tire… someone that if not for the Maxxis brand having proven itself to me, would be faced with a serious personal dilemma….

Stop the nonsense already. You pretty much admit that LTs are generally a better tire...Except for the beloved Maxxis, which has availability issues....
What will you do when Maxxis lowers their standards to the same as the rest of the ST crowd.
They seem at the present time to build to a higher standard...But all corporations are under constant pressure to increase profit. You say yourself that the govt. standards for ST tires are much weaker than for LT tires... That means at any moment that Maxxis can, and one day likely WILL lower their standards in order to remain competitive.... And they will do this overnite with telling you or all the people you are trying to convince to use those tires.

Anyone that actually bothers to read the testing standards required of LT tires and then reads the standards for ST tires, will be amazed at the difference. And all this debate will be over for those that do.
The only way to be sure that a tire will meet the higher LT standards is to BUY LT tires.

[JJBIRISH]

JIMNLIN wrote:

The rules are pretty simple, the replacement tires must equal or better the tires listed on the vehicles tire placard…

JJ, knows as well as most folks that the tire placard is a recommendation only. When you use the word "Rules" it implies some kind of law. There is no enforcement law that says the replacement tires have to be the same type listed on the placard.
The only enforceable law is roadside. They look for a DOT number and the tire capacity to match the vehicles axle ratings.

if your trailer came with ST225x75x15 in LR D @ 2540 lbs. capacity on the placard you can’t just say you can use a Wrangler HT in LT215x15 LR D @2090 lbs. capacity or in a LT 235x75x15 LR C @ 1980 lbs. capacity, which is what is often recommended in the forums for this situation…

Incorrect.
What I and others have recommended and are actually using is those two 1980-2080 lbs capacity LTs you mention for replacing a ST205/75-15 C at 1820 lbs capacity.

Actually you are incorrect, I know you insist this is not true and have posted so even for my state…
“Jack, you and FastEagle are playing to the tire placard liability thing simply by constantly bring up the issue just like your last post referring to certain tires that have been mentioned wouldn't pass your state inspection. Baloney. FastEagle has tried that trick also.
As long as the tire has enough tread depth and enough load carrying capacity/etc it will pass anyones state safety inspection requirement or even pass the annual fed safety inspection required for a commercial trailer/all vehicles regardless of tire type.”

The PA inspection say… the mfg. that being the trailer mfg. as the one required to correctly placard the vehicle… there are other provisions in the law pertaining to the trailer tires condition and tread also, but I am not about to search them all out right now…

(g) Tires and Rims - The axles of a vehicle
specified under this subchapter shall be
equipped with the number and type of tires
and rims which have a load rating equal to
or higher than those offered by the
manufacturer.

If the placards are only recommendations why do they deserve to be safety recalled so often for having the wrong information on the placards…

There have been recommendations made on the forums based on claimed trailer weights only that have had nothing to do with the trailers placard weights or even the axle weights…

While I haven’t ever made the claim that the tire type must be the same and that is misquoting me, the inspection law does in fact say the same number and type and load rating equal to or higher than…

You consistently accuse myself and others of boxing the tire builders into a corner when they are asked for information only because it don’t agree with your personal positions…
One posters response
We do not recommend using light truck tires on trailers that specify ST tires. If the trailer manufacturer calls for ST tires, it is important to replace with ST tires in order to maintain the load requirement.

Thank you for choosing BFGoodrich.

Your reply
“The OP backed BFG into the liability corner with that type question. He will get the same answer from any LT or P tire maker by asking for a direct replacement for a ST tire.”
And
“If your really interested in using LT tires don't back the tire makers or their dealers into the liability corner. “

Obviously you don’t think these are big boys that know how to answer for themselves…


My e-mail reply from continental tire
Thank you for contacting Customer Relations at Continental Tire the Americas, LLC.

We no longer manufacture ST tires, and the Vanco line is not a suitable alternative.
We would recommend searching for a dedicated ST tire line.

And your reply
“You badgered Vanco with the more canned questions until they gave you the answer you were looking for”
None of these people according to you know how to answer normal questions to their help line… no badgering, no pushing… the answers just don’t back up your opinions...

If you want the answer you are looking for according to your words, be sure to softball your questions

If these companies can’t stand tall on their own feet and recommend a LT tire, no, their LT tire even one with sufficient load capacity as a replacement tire for a ST tire why should I or anyone else assume it’s the thing to do, or assume you and others are their secret information outlet…

And this coming from me someone that generally don’t like the ST tire or their specifications, or their DOT certification requirements, and have voiced this many times, and believe the LT tire is a better tire… someone that if not for the Maxxis brand having proven itself to me, would be faced with a serious personal dilemma….

[Atlee]

After this post, I'm done.

However, the googled link you gave plainly says towing speed is "As Posted".

Yet you've been saying the trailer towing speed in Virginia is unposted and is 55mph.

And one other thing. Why would Virginia limit travel trailer speed to 55 mph, when all other towed vehicle speed limits, including 18 wheelers, is what ever is posted on the highway being traveled, and unposted speed limits on Virginia secondary roads is 45 mph?

EldIr wrote:

Atlee wrote:
Can you tell me where you found the information stating the Virginia speed limit for travel trailers is 55 mph?

EldIr wrote:

Atlee wrote:
The only roads in Virginia that are unposted, as far as I know, are some of the rural small secondary roads. And as been mentioned, the speed limit for them is 55, unless otherwise posted. I know of no Virginia roads, either the interstates, US numbered roads, or Virginia primary roads that are not posted.

In Virginia, any roads in residential or business areas are 25 unless otherwise posted. On secondary roads, the speed limit is 55 for cars, unless otherwise posted.

coolbreeze01 wrote:
Unposted speed limits? 108" max trailer width in Hawaii? 96" max trailer width in Arizona? .......Amazing :S

We're not talking about roads not having posted speed limits. We are talking about a speed limit when towing that is not posted and is lower than the posted limit. Many states have a 55mph limit when towing even if you're on a 65mph or higher posted road. It is only the limit for towing that is unposted (but the law). And Virginia's max tow speed is 55mph.

Sure. Google could have told you sooner.

[EldIr]

Atlee wrote:
Can you tell me where you found the information stating the Virginia speed limit for travel trailers is 55 mph?

EldIr wrote:

Atlee wrote:
The only roads in Virginia that are unposted, as far as I know, are some of the rural small secondary roads. And as been mentioned, the speed limit for them is 55, unless otherwise posted. I know of no Virginia roads, either the interstates, US numbered roads, or Virginia primary roads that are not posted.

In Virginia, any roads in residential or business areas are 25 unless otherwise posted. On secondary roads, the speed limit is 55 for cars, unless otherwise posted.

coolbreeze01 wrote:
Unposted speed limits? 108" max trailer width in Hawaii? 96" max trailer width in Arizona? .......Amazing :S

We're not talking about roads not having posted speed limits. We are talking about a speed limit when towing that is not posted and is lower than the posted limit. Many states have a 55mph limit when towing even if you're on a 65mph or higher posted road. It is only the limit for towing that is unposted (but the law). And Virginia's max tow speed is 55mph.

Sure. Google could have told you sooner.

[JIMNLIN]

The rules are pretty simple, the replacement tires must equal or better the tires listed on the vehicles tire placard…

JJ, knows as well as most folks that the tire placard is a recommendation only. When you use the word "Rules" it implies some kind of law. There is no enforcement law that says the replacement tires have to be the same type listed on the placard.
The only enforceable law is roadside. They look for a DOT number and the tire capacity to match the vehicles axle ratings.

if your trailer came with ST225x75x15 in LR D @ 2540 lbs. capacity on the placard you can’t just say you can use a Wrangler HT in LT215x15 LR D @2090 lbs. capacity or in a LT 235x75x15 LR C @ 1980 lbs. capacity, which is what is often recommended in the forums for this situation…

Incorrect.
What I and others have recommended and are actually using is those two 1980-2080 lbs capacity LTs you mention for replacing a ST205/75-15 C at 1820 lbs capacity.

[JJBIRISH]

SprinklerMan wrote:
What rules are there for tire use ? All I have ever seen are recomondations .

Manufacturers give the specifications for the tire , speed rating , weight rating , etc . It is up to the consumer to determine what they wish to purchace . The only 2 things I have ever seen on on tires are " for trailer use only" and " not for highway use " on equipment tires .

The rules are pretty simple, the replacement tires must equal or better the tires listed on the vehicles tire placard….

Most often the LT tires recommended don’t do that unless you are doing a upgrade of two load ranges and that is going to require new rims most of the time… of course if you need new rims you might as well go to bigger 16 inch rims and a load range to get the needed LT capacity of the eqivelent ST tire… in the TT forums those choices are not often even available…

if your trailer came with ST225x75x15 in LR D @ 2540 lbs. capacity on the placard you can’t just say you can use a Wrangler HT in LT215x15 LR D @2090 lbs. capacity or in a LT 235x75x15 LR C @ 1980 lbs. capacity, which is what is often recommended in the forums for this situation…

many of the recommendations might would work fine in the 5er forums and for the bigger TT of 10,000lbs or more, but are useless for most smaller and lighter TT’s… and most that make these recommendations don’t make these distinctions along with their recomendations…

[Beachums]

I think that some may be really hung up on the 65mph number and what that means. Yes, I agree that exceeding that speed isn't exactly a good idea.
But these statements alluding to towing @ 65 isn't a good idea because it is so close to the max speed rating is just hogwash.
Everything sold in this country (for highway use) has a "safety factor". In other words, 65pmh is the max RATED speed. In even other words, the tires can spin faster. In fact they were designed to spin faster.

So, run it at 65 mph if that is safe for your situation. Limiting your speed because you feel that 100% of your speed rating is more unsafe than running at 90% is undermining the entire idea of a rating system in the first place. Of course wear an tear will be greater with any tire with higher speeds. But that doesn't exactly translate to being any less safe than rolling slower.

Some just over think too much

[Atlee]

Duplicate post

[Atlee]

Can you tell me where you found the information stating the Virginia speed limit for travel trailers is 55 mph?

EldIr wrote:

Atlee wrote:
The only roads in Virginia that are unposted, as far as I know, are some of the rural small secondary roads. And as been mentioned, the speed limit for them is 55, unless otherwise posted. I know of no Virginia roads, either the interstates, US numbered roads, or Virginia primary roads that are not posted.

In Virginia, any roads in residential or business areas are 25 unless otherwise posted. On secondary roads, the speed limit is 55 for cars, unless otherwise posted.

coolbreeze01 wrote:
Unposted speed limits? 108" max trailer width in Hawaii? 96" max trailer width in Arizona? .......Amazing :S

We're not talking about roads not having posted speed limits. We are talking about a speed limit when towing that is not posted and is lower than the posted limit. Many states have a 55mph limit when towing even if you're on a 65mph or higher posted road. It is only the limit for towing that is unposted (but the law). And Virginia's max tow speed is 55mph.

[EldIr]

Atlee wrote:
The only roads in Virginia that are unposted, as far as I know, are some of the rural small secondary roads. And as been mentioned, the speed limit for them is 55, unless otherwise posted. I know of no Virginia roads, either the interstates, US numbered roads, or Virginia primary roads that are not posted.

In Virginia, any roads in residential or business areas are 25 unless otherwise posted. On secondary roads, the speed limit is 55 for cars, unless otherwise posted.

coolbreeze01 wrote:
Unposted speed limits? 108" max trailer width in Hawaii? 96" max trailer width in Arizona? .......Amazing :S

We're not talking about roads not having posted speed limits. We are talking about a speed limit when towing that is not posted and is lower than the posted limit. Many states have a 55mph limit when towing even if you're on a 65mph or higher posted road. It is only the limit for towing that is unposted (but the law). And Virginia's max tow speed is 55mph.

[Huntindog]

You guys are getting all tangled up in your underwear over wording.

Some of the more highly respected TT manufacturers supply LT tires, or the option for them as factory equipment..
If it's good enough for the likes Arctic Fox and others in the higher end class, why wouldn't it also be a upgrade for the lower class TTs?

Seriously, there is NO REASON to act like lemmings following the bad advice on tires that the original manufacturer stuck you with.

As far as "they are the engineers" so they must know what is best....
Another laugh. The TT industry is full of bad engineering..
It is everywhere in these forums.

[SprinklerMan]

What rules are there for tire use ? All I have ever seen are recomondations .

Manufacturers give the specifications for the tire , speed rating , weight rating , etc . It is up to the consumer to determine what they wish to purchace . The only 2 things I have ever seen on on tires are " for trailer use only" and " not for highway use " on equipment tires .

[JJBIRISH]

SprinklerMan wrote:

JJBIRISH wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

gmw photos wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:


Huntingdog. I've been looking at 15" tires and only can find LRC LT's. If you know of any 15" LRD or preferablly LRE (2800lbs) I'd be interested in knowing about it. Seems like 16" has lots of LRE, but not in 15". But LRD (2500lb) 15" ST's are very common and 15" LRE (2800lb) is also readily available.

Continental Vanco 2 ?

Goodyear cargo G26 ?

from a previous post and response from Continental, they stated the Vanco 2 is NOT TO BE USED IN TRAVEL TRAILER APPLICATIONS. Don't know the reason but the wording was very strong. Apparently the tire was specifically designed for the mercedes sprinter chassis application.

I'll have to look into the goodyear.

The exact wording in the E-mail response from Continental tire was…

Thank you for contacting Customer Relations at Continental Tire the Americas, LLC.

We no longer manufacture ST tires, and the Vanco line is not a suitable alternative.
We would recommend searching for a dedicated ST tire line.

And this information taken directly from the Continental tire website about the commercial Vanco tire line…

“The growing demand for short-distance transport of passengers and goods
also leads to increased requirements so that the performance of modern day
vans nears that of passenger car.”

“The concept of the VancoTM Camper is to use long well-proven Vanco
technique, optimize its performance for distinguished motorcaravan
requirements and thus cater to the needs of this specific target use.”

“The Continental Vanco Camper tyres are part of Continental’s Vanco tyre
range that comprises tyres exclusively for vans.”

Could you please provide a link to continentals website that specifically states that their lt tires and NOT to be used on a trailer . And can you send links to ANY other tire manufacturers website that specifically forbids the use of LT tires on a trailer .

Could you please provide with anywhere that I said you couldn’t use LT tires on a trailer or where I said that any manufacture website specifically forbids the use of LT tires on a trailer…

The problem with these debates is people only see what they want to see and it often isn’t the correct or recommended way to do it, but it’s their way and is what makes it the right way and more often the only way…

The thing is you won’t find anywhere that I have claimed you couldn’t use a LT on a trailer… only that there are rules for doing it correctly that most ignore… they ignore them because most of the tires they use and/or recommend don’t meet the rules that allow for it… instead they make up their own rules…

Oh and if you could, would you provide me a link with the mfg. that recommends their LT tire for trailer use…

[SprinklerMan]

JJBIRISH wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:

gmw photos wrote:

ktmrfs wrote:


Huntingdog. I've been looking at 15" tires and only can find LRC LT's. If you know of any 15" LRD or preferablly LRE (2800lbs) I'd be interested in knowing about it. Seems like 16" has lots of LRE, but not in 15". But LRD (2500lb) 15" ST's are very common and 15" LRE (2800lb) is also readily available.

Continental Vanco 2 ?

Goodyear cargo G26 ?

from a previous post and response from Continental, they stated the Vanco 2 is NOT TO BE USED IN TRAVEL TRAILER APPLICATIONS. Don't know the reason but the wording was very strong. Apparently the tire was specifically designed for the mercedes sprinter chassis application.

I'll have to look into the goodyear.

The exact wording in the E-mail response from Continental tire was…

Thank you for contacting Customer Relations at Continental Tire the Americas, LLC.

We no longer manufacture ST tires, and the Vanco line is not a suitable alternative.
We would recommend searching for a dedicated ST tire line.

And this information taken directly from the Continental tire website about the commercial Vanco tire line…

“The growing demand for short-distance transport of passengers and goods
also leads to increased requirements so that the performance of modern day
vans nears that of passenger car.”

“The concept of the VancoTM Camper is to use long well-proven Vanco
technique, optimize its performance for distinguished motorcaravan
requirements and thus cater to the needs of this specific target use.”

“The Continental Vanco Camper tyres are part of Continental’s Vanco tyre
range that comprises tyres exclusively for vans.”

Could you please provide a link to continentals website that specifically states that their lt tires and NOT to be used on a trailer . And can you send links to ANY other tire manufacturers website that specifically forbids the use of LT tires on a trailer .

[Atlee]

The only roads in Virginia that are unposted, as far as I know, are some of the rural small secondary roads. And as been mentioned, the speed limit for them is 55, unless otherwise posted. I know of no Virginia roads, either the interstates, US numbered roads, or Virginia primary roads that are not posted.

In Virginia, any roads in residential or business areas are 25 unless otherwise posted. On secondary roads, the speed limit is 55 for cars, unless otherwise posted.

coolbreeze01 wrote:
Unposted speed limits? 108" max trailer width in Hawaii? 96" max trailer width in Arizona? .......Amazing :S