License plate cost (sticker) for pickup in Ontario...

[miatared]

Hello my fellow Ontarians.

I am trying to figure out the cost of a new sticker for my 3/4T Ford F250.

Does anyone have any relevant information from the MTO, their web site has nothing to speak of. There is a note for commercial vehicle under 3000 kg used for personal use or a commercial vehicle used for commercial use.

My pickup is a not a commercial vehicle, it is only used for personal use and pulling a 5th wheel occasionally.

My F250 is a tad under 3000 kg at 2900kg, that is the weight on my registration certificate, with a full tank of gas and myself, my 5th wheel hitch installed. I have a black and white plate. I currently pay $120 per year.

I heard I need to show the weight with the 5th wheel trailer attached, rear wheels weight only -- with the 5th wheel attached that is... A friend pays $497 per year for his F250 because of that...

Other tell me no, no need to do that.

I just want to be legit...

Thanks

[CoMoCo]

I used to think like Shum until I was pulled over in Kitchener by their regional police a couple of years ago. I was always under the impression that my personal vehicle (a 3500 dually diesel) was not a commercial vehicle. The officer and I had a very nice conversation and he gave me a warning and strongly encouraged me to get the "yellow" Commercial Vehicle Annual Safety Inspection sticker as soon as possible. He told me if I was pulled over again in their safety blitz that there would not be any leniency given.

I got the sticker based on his explanation of the Highway Traffic Act - and JaxDad's explanation above is bang on with what I was told.

Fast forward a year and a half and I am pulled over in Milton by their regional police. Much easier this time as I have the yellow sticker. He didn't ask for any documents as he had everything pulled up on his computer in his car. Just said it was a safety blitz and to have a nice day.

I wasn't pulling either time but they see duallies and they are automatically pulled over in the blitzes.

Both times the police looked at my truck, saw its condition (it is well maintained), saw that there isn't a landscape name on the side, didn't have a small trailer with lawnmowers and rakes, etc..

This is not disrespect to landscapers - the facts are a lot of them have some pretty beat up trucks and they are the target market for the blitzes in cities. The highway blitzes are usually after the bigger trucks but they don't discriminate against us smaller trucks.

Just my 2 cents.

[JaxDad]

From the MTO website;

Q16: How do I determine registered gross weights for trucks towing trailers?

The registered gross weight (RGW) determines the fee paid for commercial licence plates (black and white). The truck's RGW is based on and must be at least equal to the actual weight of the truck, or the truck, trailer(s) and load(s).

1. Weigh the truck only, with the trailer attached.

2. Weigh the trailer only, with the trailer attached to the truck.

If the trailer weighs more than 2,800 kg (6,171 lb.):

- register the truck for at least the combined weight of the truck and trailer.


Not only are the fines hefty, because they are based on a minimum amount plus a surcharge per kg you are over your RGW, but you will be ordered off the road right there. If you are lucky enough that it's because of a trailer, you will only be on the hook (literally) for having the trailer towed and stored until you can up the RGW and return with proof of same.

A friend of the family got nailed this way in Georgia, had to leave the trailer there in a storage yard and drive back to Ontario to up his RGW and get an A drivers licence. His 5'er was over the 4,600 kg limit for a class G license.

[portliz]

Look at the clicky again. Question 15 AND 16. Weigh your truck and rig and follow the rules. My hubby thought I was wrong and he took our weights to the MTO scales on the 402. RGW for us is 20,900 pounds. License cost over $500. The weigh scale guys said MTO is pulling people over and so are OPP. Fines are much more than you think. You are responsible for knowing even if the license office doesn't.

[JaxDad]

shum02 wrote:
Too funny!


From the MTO's FAQ's section

Q15: Is my pickup truck a commercial motor vehicle and does it need a CVOR?
The Highway Traffic Act considers all pickup trucks to be commercial motor vehicles.....


BTW my F350 with me and a full load of fuel is dead on at 8000lbs or 3600kgs just like the door jam says.


I don't care, it's personal use and I'll load her up to the limit of 11000kgs and feel the exact way.

OK, upon further reading I'm a little, OK, a LOT confused.

You clearly say the MTO website says its a commercial vehicle, but then try to say commercial vehicle reg's don't apply to you.

Then you say the vehicle weighs 3,600 kg according to the 'door jam' but you can load it up to 11,000 kg.?

Are you trying to say you think you can load / tow an 'extra' 7,400 kg (16,280 pounds) and nobody can do anything about it?

[JaxDad]

I'm sorry if trying to help you is offensive, but please don't mix apples and oranges and try to sell me lemonade.

A CVOR ( Commercial Vehicle Operator Registration) does indeed, as I clearly pointed out above, fall under one of those exemptions I mentioned.

I was talking about a Commercial Vehicle Annual Safety Inspection, and being stopped for inspection.

As I mentioned, pull out the ownership to your truck. Does it say not say "COM- -FIT" at the top?

You are driving a COMMERCIAL VEHICLE. I didn't say you were USING it commercially.


As for not being stopped, with all due respect, that's like saying I've been speeding for 30 years and never gotten a ticket, therefore the speed limit does not apply to me. Good luck with that one.

[shum02]

JaxDad wrote:

shum02 wrote:

JaxDad wrote:
Having not just a personal truck in this category, an F-350 DRW 4x4, but a small fleet at work, we run into this ALL the time.

I have NO fleet, am not part of a fleet, no yellow sticker and pulling over a F350 with a RGVW of 4000kgs and weighing me will show anyone I'm under.

In these "spot checks" I only see guys with trailers and loads of gear in their trucks using "personal" trucks as work trucks. If you do that you are COMMERCIAL. Had a neighbor get nicked for that even after I warned him about it with his Ram 1500 using it for a driveway sealing business - got nicked!

I see this confusion all the time, there is NO such thing as a "personal" pickup truck in Ontario. If you have black & white plates you have a COMMERCIAL vehicle, period.

Compare the ownerships of a car and your pickup, you will see at the very top the term "COM - FIT" (commercial) on your truck and "PAS - FIT" (passenger) on the car ownership.

For an RV there is however several exemptions from some commercial vehicle requirements. But as a commercial vehicle you can be stopped at anytime for no particular reason in order to 'inspect' the truck.

BTW, the physical weight or registered weight means nothing, if the manufacturers GVWR of the truck and any non-exempt (RV) trailer exceed 4,500 kg, you are required to have a comm. safety inspection on both.

Considering the lightest F-350 GVWR is 4,491 kg you are at, if not very likely already over that limit. If you so much as hook up to little 4'' X 8' box trailer you are risking some hefty fines.

Too funny!

I've been driving pickups as personal vehicles for over 25 years and never once have had an inspection done on the truck as a commercial vehicle.

From the MTO's FAQ's section

Q15: Is my pickup truck a commercial motor vehicle and does it need a CVOR?
The Highway Traffic Act considers all pickup trucks to be commercial motor vehicles, but a pickup truck only needs a Commercial Vehicle Operator's Registration (CVOR) certificate if it has an actual or registered gross weight of more than 4,500 kg.
A personal-use pickup truck means a pickup truck that:
is being used for personal purposes without compensation
has a manufacturer's gross vehicle weight rating of 6,000 kg (13,227 lb) or less, and is fitted with either:
the original box that was installed by the manufacturer, which has not been modified, or
a replacement box that duplicates the one that was installed by the manufacturer and has not been modified
is not carrying or towing a trailer carrying commercial cargo or tools or equipment of a type normally used for commercial purposes

BTW my F350 with me and a full load of fuel is dead on at 8000lbs or 3600kgs just like the door jam says. I've had the truck up to a GCVWR of 17500 with the camper with never a worry in the world of how much weight I had on the trucks axles. I don't care, it's personal use and I'll load her up to the limit of 11000kgs and feel the exact way.

If you are driving your pickup for PERSONAL use, it is registered to you, not a company and you never pull for money you have NOTHING to worry about from the MTO.

[JaxDad]

gitane59 wrote:
What really rots my socks with fiver pickup truck licensing is the free pass motorhome owners and drivers get.


Also if ignorance is no longer bliss than the un-civil servants in the MTO offices need to go back to school to learn the laws and there interpretations. Had a license office agent rudely show me the door when I insisted I did not need a CVOR and I wanted the exemption document. Agent had no idea what I was talking about at all.

Regarding the first part, this is EXACTLY why I'm in the process of converting a transport truck into a motorhome. A m/h is exemp from all of that **** because it's NOT a commercial vehicle.


As for the second part, they are neither civil servants nor anything to do with the MTO. They are employees of someone who operates a "ServiceOntario" FRANCHISE.

[JaxDad]

shum02 wrote:

JaxDad wrote:
Having not just a personal truck in this category, an F-350 DRW 4x4, but a small fleet at work, we run into this ALL the time.

I have NO fleet, am not part of a fleet, no yellow sticker and pulling over a F350 with a RGVW of 4000kgs and weighing me will show anyone I'm under.

In these "spot checks" I only see guys with trailers and loads of gear in their trucks using "personal" trucks as work trucks. If you do that you are COMMERCIAL. Had a neighbor get nicked for that even after I warned him about it with his Ram 1500 using it for a driveway sealing business - got nicked!

I see this confusion all the time, there is NO such thing as a "personal" pickup truck in Ontario. If you have black & white plates you have a COMMERCIAL vehicle, period.

Compare the ownerships of a car and your pickup, you will see at the very top the term "COM - FIT" (commercial) on your truck and "PAS - FIT" (passenger) on the car ownership.

For an RV there is however several exemptions from some commercial vehicle requirements. But as a commercial vehicle you can be stopped at anytime for no particular reason in order to 'inspect' the truck.

BTW, the physical weight or registered weight means nothing, if the manufacturers GVWR of the truck and any non-exempt (RV) trailer exceed 4,500 kg, you are required to have a comm. safety inspection on both.

Considering the lightest F-350 GVWR is 4,491 kg you are at, if not very likely already over that limit. If you so much as hook up to little 4'' X 8' box trailer you are risking some hefty fines.

[shum02]

JaxDad wrote:
Having not just a personal truck in this category, an F-350 DRW 4x4, but a small fleet at work, we run into this ALL the time.

I have NO fleet, am not part of a fleet, no yellow sticker and pulling over a F350 with a RGVW of 4000kgs and weighing me will show anyone I'm under.

In these "spot checks" I only see guys with trailers and loads of gear in their trucks using "personal" trucks as work trucks. If you do that you are COMMERCIAL. Had a neighbor get nicked for that even after I warned him about it with his Ram 1500 using it for a driveway sealing business - got nicked!

Driving around I have never been pulled over by the MTO or any of these inspections stops. My F350 takes me to work and pulls the RV for PERSONAL use only. Also avoid the MTO/OPP long weekend RV blitzes as well. Got pulled into one of these once and they had NO idea about anything they where looking at except obvious trailer/truck safety issues. Cost me an hour of my time while I educated an officer on how a WDH worked.

[Pipeman]

It's darn near a fight in futility every time I go to the Service Ontario office to change my weight rating to 11000 kilos every May. I drop it down in October when I'm finished pulling the 5er for the season. So,last May I brought the info, I wrote down, when I talked to the agent at the MTO office. It says if the GVWR on the truck door is 6000 kilos or less ask for vehicle registration form. The section on CVOR is on the back of the form and is the 3rd section down. Fill it out with the GVWR of your truck. They(manager and the agent) looked at what I had written down along with the phone number and name of the agent in the MTO office and filled out the form the proper way.. Simple and easy...nah. One time the agent there put down 11000 kilos as my GVWR. After trying to get her to understand and talking to the manager, I got so frustrated that I walked out because I was getting very upset with them. It's a long and winding road we sometimes have to take just to be legal.

[gitane59]

What really rots my socks with fiver pickup truck licensing is the free pass motorhome owners and drivers get. We all know many large motorhome drivers without necessary D licenses and without air brake endorsements.
It is about time law enforcement addresses both fivers and motorhome owners equally.
Also if ignorance is no longer bliss than the un-civil servants in the MTO offices need to go back to school to learn the laws and there interpretations. Had a license office agent rudely show me the door when I insisted I did not need a CVOR and I wanted the exemption document. Agent had no idea what I was talking about at all.

[JaxDad]

Having not just a personal truck in this category, an F-350 DRW 4x4, but a small fleet at work, we run into this ALL the time.

The bygone days of 'ignorance is bliss' is, well, bygone days. With the current profit sharing, ummm, I mean REVENUE sharing, arrangements the regional police forces in the GTA (Durham, York, Peel and Halton) have really stepped up 'commercial vehicle enforcement' lately.

Make no mistake, in Ontario there is no such thing as a 'personal' pickup, they are ALL commercial vehicles.

In my area, York Region, they have a unit that does nothing but set up inspection stations in random spots to pull over ANY commercial vehicle, which is ANY vehicle with black & white plates lots of tickets get written, lots of plates are removed, lots of tow truck drivers are happy.

Under reciprocity agreements you are legal anywhere in North America if you are legal at home. A family friend had to pay a tow truck to take his 5'er to a storage yard in Georgia while he drove back to Toronto because he wasn't legal and nobody ever checks that stuff, until someone did..........

[Kidoo]

portliz wrote:
Your friend is correct. You must know the weight of your truck with 5th wheel attached and the weight of rig with 5th wheel attached. This determines what RGW you put on your ownership. Check with license office. They are stopping rigs in Ontario and pulling in to be weighed. You can be fined. Yes it costs more to be legit. We just went thru this. If you have a lighter rig you may pay less.

What about if you are overweight? For example if I have a F350 with a big truck camper on the back? The weight will probably be over the max gross weight of the vehicle.

[CoMoCo]

shum02 wrote:

miatared wrote:

CoMoCo wrote:
Here is some current info - look at questions 15 and 16 in particular.

Commercial vehicle FAQ

Many thanks, I now Understand.

I will state that NO ONE uses this. Most 1/2 ton trucks towing some of the trailers I see are WAY over that rating. Register the truck for the least amount you can. The MTO cares less about pickups used for PERSONAL transportation and towing.

Shum - I agree completely but I believe that is what will be followed in the worst case scenario. I have been pulled over in my dually and asked by regional police why I have the truck registered at the weight I do and it is because of the 407 tolls. My weight is to keep the 407 tolls in line with the light weight vehicles!

[shum02]

miatared wrote:

CoMoCo wrote:
Here is some current info - look at questions 15 and 16 in particular.

Commercial vehicle FAQ

Many thanks, I now Understand.

I will state that NO ONE uses this. Most 1/2 ton trucks towing some of the trailers I see are WAY over that rating. Register the truck for the least amount you can. The MTO cares less about pickups used for PERSONAL transportation and towing.