LT vs ST's - Canadian Tires cries "Illegal!".

[PrivatePilot]

I replaced all 4 tires on my 35' horse trailer in the last 2 weeks - Canadian Tire had some excellent LT tires that were on 50% off "end of line liquidation" discount and the price was too hard to resist even though the horse show season is about done and I wasn't planning to replace the tires until spring.

The first 2 I had replaced at a Canadian Tire reasonably local to me. They initially balked at my choice of LT tires with the usual song and dance about how "You can only use ST tires!". Eventually after some frank discussion with the people there they saw my side of the story - you can't use ST tires on a vehicle, but you CAN legally use LT tires on a trailer. I told them that some RV manufacturers are even shipping their trailers with LT's now for example. Eventually, no problem, they installed them, all happy.

Fast forward to yesterday, I drop off some horses and head to another Canadian Tires store local to me at that moment to get the last 2 tires replaced - the stock on these clearance tires was getting low and if I wanted to get in at the 50% off price I had to get them where I could find them, and the store I was near had 2.

So I get there and the service manager advises me that they will NOT install LT tires on a trailer. I politely start my side of the story again with regards to the legality at which point he exclaims "Yeah, we've dealt with the MTO on all this before and it's not legal so we're not doing it". Eventually we come to a middle ground - I remove the tires myself in the parking lot, roll them in, and they'll "see no evil" and mount the new rubber for me. So, I always carry a hydraulic jack and breaker bar with me when hauling horses, so I do exactly that. Needless to say it's a PITA and takes a lot of extra time.

Eventually, I leave with my 2 new tires (now having a nice matched set of 4 brand new LT's) but I look at the receipt as I'm driving off and I see that they notated the bill more or less "instructed that desired use is not legal, customer self installed, warranty void, blah blah blah".

Now that burned my ass, and I want to take it up with Canadian Tire head office as I'm not the only one I know who was pigeonholed into being forced into buying garbage ST's - another friend was also forced to buy ST's when he needed to replace a spare tire, even though there were far better LT alternatives for his smaller trailer. He didn't argue it and ended up with Carlisle ST's, and we all know how that'll end up eventually.

I need a link or some sort of proof in CMVSS laws that using LT tires on a trailer is NOT illegal as so many Canadian Tire stores seem to want to believe. I can find plenty of reference to ST's being "for trailer service only", which is all fine and dandy and is the very point which thereby declares them illegal for vehicle usage, but nothing that specifically indicates LT's are legal for trailers...although arguably the absence of "LT's are illegal for trailer service" should suffice. Heck, even P rated tires are OK with a 9% derate so long as they can legally carry the weight.

At the very least I'd like to get my warranty reinstated, if nothing else.

[PrivatePilot]

JaxDad wrote:
You're very welcome! You can buy me a coffee and a butter tart up at Stanhope Airport. LOL.

Haven't been there in years, haven't been current in quite a few since - there was two addictions in our life, horses and aircraft - the horses won out for the time being. 😉

[JaxDad]

You're very welcome! You can buy me a coffee and a butter tart up at Stanhope Airport. LOL.

[PrivatePilot]

THANK YOU! That's just the ammunition I needed. I plan on writing the letter today and will post a copy here. Heck, perhaps we could turn this into a letter writing campaign to Canadian Tire (and Costco by the sounds of it as well?) to get the issue cleared up once and for all on this side of the border.

[JaxDad]

sue.t wrote:
If you read the laws on the links I posted early in the thread, you will see the laws/regulations do indeed govern tire usage on vehicles.

There is a federal Act, plus each province would have its own act/regulations that must adhere to the federal Act.

Can't blame them for protecting themselves from lawsuits.

The act, and the parallel Provincial legislation, merely says that tires used on the highway must be certified for that use by the manufacturer, I.e. not marked "NHS" (Not for Highway Service), and of sufficient weight carrying capacity.

In the picture below of the manufacturers certification label on a KZ toy hauler you can see that a) it was equipped with LT tires from the factory, and, b) that such use complies with both Canadian and US legislation.

[kodiakcanuck]

Well if its illegal to put LT tires on a trailer, then that should end the ST vs LT thread once and for all....now if we can only find the laws for the weight police and the no outdoor lights crowd, we should be good ...

[hone_eagle]

Maybe ask the question on rig specific forums?
Carriage/lifestyle or New Horizons , up scale rigs will have at least LT or more probably commercial grade tires.

[sue_t]

If you read the laws on the links I posted early in the thread, you will see the laws/regulations do indeed govern tire usage on vehicles.

There is a federal Act, plus each province would have its own act/regulations that must adhere to the federal Act.

Can't blame them for protecting themselves from lawsuits.

[Community Alumni]

kodiakcanuck wrote:

CardinalRule wrote:
And so the thread is hijacked by an argument over driving in winter.

The argument really started with Canadian Tire making calls about what they interpret as illegal...If someone wants to put 2 winter tires on the front (not that I agree LOL) or LT tires on a trailer, or fix a screw on a tire, Canadian Tire shouldn't make judgement on what they think is legal or illegal. They can maybe say its company policy, but not that it's illegal...unless you got the law book in your hand...

It's really a province to province decision since it's typically highway code that must be followed.

[kodiakcanuck]

CardinalRule wrote:
And so the thread is hijacked by an argument over driving in winter.

The argument really started with Canadian Tire making calls about what they interpret as illegal...If someone wants to put 2 winter tires on the front (not that I agree LOL) or LT tires on a trailer, or fix a screw on a tire, Canadian Tire shouldn't make judgement on what they think is legal or illegal. They can maybe say its company policy, but not that it's illegal...unless you got the law book in your hand...

[CardinalRule]

And so the thread is hijacked by an argument over driving in winter.

[PrivatePilot]

I've driven countless more miles with all seasons vs snows as well, but I will say one thing - there's no question true snow tires are vastly superior in snow. Anyhow who suggests otherwise has never driven with a full set of snow tires on their vehicle.

Anyhow...can we get back on topic? I'm still hoping someone will post a photo of their RV placard showing LT's as standard equipment.

[hone_eagle]

wilber1 wrote:

hone eagle wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

hone eagle wrote:
I know but really? We live in SW ontario and except for last year snow fall lasts a day ,what we need are 'slush tires'
Anyway I got my way by going to Michigan.

OK but get off the gas too quick on a slippery corner with snows on the front only and the next thing you know, you are in the ditch or on the wrong side of the road staring at where you came from.

I never drive even within 10% of my vehicles limits wet dry cold hot .
our roads are at their slipperiest from excess amount of salt 'dust ' on the surface.

The problem is, with only two snows on the front, one end of your car has much higher limits than the other. Like driving in standing water with a good set of rain tires on the front and bald summer tires on the back.

What you seem to be saying is you don't need snow tires at all.

Exactly
I drive like a adult ,the snows are for unplowed lots and other outside the 'norms',went decades without them, after all I live in the banana belt of Canada

[PrivatePilot]

Last winter I had 2 snow tires on the front of my Chevy Aveo, and 2 all seasons on the back. I can attest to the very real fact that it is NOT fun. The car will pull itself anywhere you point it, just don't step on the brakes in a hurry as it swaps ends in a heartbeat.

[wilber1]

hone eagle wrote:

wilber1 wrote:

hone eagle wrote:
I know but really? We live in SW ontario and except for last year snow fall lasts a day ,what we need are 'slush tires'
Anyway I got my way by going to Michigan.

OK but get off the gas too quick on a slippery corner with snows on the front only and the next thing you know, you are in the ditch or on the wrong side of the road staring at where you came from.

I never drive even within 10% of my vehicles limits wet dry cold hot .
our roads are at their slipperiest from excess amount of salt 'dust ' on the surface.

The problem is, with only two snows on the front, one end of your car has much higher limits than the other. Like driving in standing water with a good set of rain tires on the front and bald summer tires on the back.

What you seem to be saying is you don't need snow tires at all.

[hone_eagle]

wilber1 wrote:

hone eagle wrote:
I know but really? We live in SW ontario and except for last year snow fall lasts a day ,what we need are 'slush tires'
Anyway I got my way by going to Michigan.

OK but get off the gas too quick on a slippery corner with snows on the front only and the next thing you know, you are in the ditch or on the wrong side of the road staring at where you came from.

I never drive even within 10% of my vehicles limits wet dry cold hot .
our roads are at their slipperiest from excess amount of salt 'dust ' on the surface.