1000 trails call- new changes

[catkins]

I received a phone call from Thousand Trails to tell me there were some changes coming to my membership. Need to schedule an appointment for a phone conference. I will be receiving an email. Since I am on the road, I ask when will I receive the email?. Of course, not available until I schedule my phone conference. She said they were keeping things "close to the vest" but they are encouraging member feedback. My feedback was this process stinks when I can obtain zero info now.

To date, offers to upgrade for money have been the norm with them. Anyone know what this new round entails? I am impatient with scheduling st their convienience.....ugh. Feel like I have been here before. Thanks for any info!

[PawPaw_n_Gram]

I agree that the TT parks/ ranger stations are very bad about providing information to new arrivals. The web site information is horrible. Such simple information is do you have 50 amp, how many/ what percentage of the sites are 30 and which are 50. Does the park have sewer at all sites, or none? What WiFi provider is available, where is WiFi available or not?

One day recently in San Diego, a half dozen of us spent some time comparing notes on different TT parks. I got a lot of information about parks in the Northeast, Atlantic coast, Oregon and Washington, and shared my experiences in Texas. It seems that unofficial personal observations provide more factual, current information about features and amenities of TT parks than the company can provide.

Pio Pico has a good Tengo pay WiFi across most of the park. It has free WiFi at the main activity center only. How hard would it be to have that information available before I get to the park, or upon checking?

My wife's current 'big issue' with TT is washing machines. Several we have visited are using a card system rather than cash. Okay, saves having to make a special stop at the bank for several rolls of quarters.

However every park uses a different card system. So we now have five different credit card types we had to purchase for $2 - 4 each at different parks. Each card also has a few dollars 'value' because of course we didn't use the entire amount loaded onto each card.

Why can't the company have one card provider across the system, or at least regional providers?

[Acampingwewillg]

All well and good about Wi-Fi.....I only want it to check e-mail, I know better than to expect ANY type of streaming! It would be nice to disclose the system's(whether that be wi-fi, lodges, pool's ect ect) that are not functioning or available upon entry into the Park. The Ranger's know what's working and what isn't.....I have my own Hot Spot, but if I knew that Wi-Fi was not functioning at a certain Lodge(where it normally would be), I might park the RV in another location not concerning myself with what I might be able to receive. All I want is DISCLOSURE....not too much to ask!

[PawPaw_n_Gram]

Acampingwewillgo wrote:
add that to the lame excuses about the Piss Poor Wi-Fi and how it was only available at the small adult lodge...just very frustrating.

I used to work in IT, and was involved in the project to put in wireless connectivity in an office building with 900 employees.

We had to add twice the number of hot spots the 'expert' contractors told us would do the job. We also had to upgrade the connectivity for the building to seven T-3 lines. It was amazing to us how much internet usage went up after adding WiFi to the building.

My opinion is that Bay Landing would require close 80-100 hot spots to provide workable coverage to the camping sites, the cabins and the activity centers. It would take two hot spots for the Adult center and four for the main building to provide reliable connectivity. - Say $150 per hot spot.

We learned the hard way that the hot spots and other infrastructure has to be build for the maximum possible load, not the average expected load.

(What is available at the Adult Center is in my opinion just a supplemental WAP from the property manager office, on a 56/128 kps dial-up quality phone line.)

Here is a listing of types of internet connectivity used for high usage locations

Business DSL -
256 kbps to 1.5 mbps connection - Shared line for 5 to 50 users.

Fractional T1 Line -
256 kbps to 768 kbps connection - Dedicated line for 5 to 20 users.

Integrated T1 Line -
128 kbps to 1.5 mbps connection - Dedicated line for 5 to 30 users plus voice lines.

Full DS1 / T1 Connection -
1.5 mbps connection - Dedicated line for 20 to 50 users. A T1 connection can also be used for point to point access.

Multiple T1 Lines -
1.5 to 6 mbps connection - Dedicated lines for 50+ users and/or high bandwidth applications. Multiple T1 lines can also be used for point to point access.

DS3 / T3 Connection -
45 mbps connection - Dedicated line for 100+ users and/or high bandwidth applications. A DS3 / T3 connection can also be used for point to point access.

OC3 Connection -
155 mbps connection - Fiber or dark fiber line for enterprise applications. An OC3 connection can also be used for point to point access.

OC12 Connection -
620 mbps connection - Fiber or dark fiber line for enterprise applications. An OC12 connection can also be used for point to point access.

To add the connectivity to a place like Bay Landing to support up to 50 users on-line with 15 of them streaming video - it would take a full DS1/T1 connection.

Such lines are only available in urban areas with high density populations. To have such a line at Bay Landing would require TT to pay thousands of dollars per mile to install the copper/ fiber optic line needed.

Campgrounds are normally in locations with very poor phone company infrastructure. Many are only able to get consumer DSL - not as good as the lowest option of Business DSL.

Another solution is to build a microwave relay system - which might require adding relay towers on other people's property between the campground and the phone company head-end station.

What TT is starting to do is allow contractor companies like Tengo to come in and pay the tens of thousands of dollars of up-front costs to add the hot spots, add a better than dial-up quality access line - frequently micro-wave. And we as users have to pay the fees that Tengo wants for usage.

WiFi isn't free. It can easily cost a campground over $1,000 per month for every hundred campsites. Also many times the infrastructure to provide WiFi from a good quality campground location simply doesn't exist.

All such problems are solvable - it just takes money. A lot more money than most people realize. Money that I personally would prefer TT to put into the campgrounds.

(Why does every TT campground I visit have several sites unusable with the electrical boxes covered? Then again - I wonder what it costs to have a qualified, licensed electrician come out to repair them. Do TT campgrounds even have the need for a full-time electrician on staff?)

[PawPaw_n_Gram]

JKJavelin wrote:
So, what's the deal with this Thousand Trails? We just bought our trailer and the dealer gave us a supposedly 'one year of free camping' membership with them. There are a handful of Thousand Trail campgrounds, then there's the Encore part of their membership. I called one of those and she said it's a 20% discount. WTF is free about that? I figured this was probably a scam from the beginning. I never trust the finance guys.
JK

Wisconsin is a sore point with me.

The Zone Pass program has four "Thousand Trails" resorts in Wisconsin - but those are Encore properties - and they are not on my list of available resorts.

When you activate the TT membership - you will get an on-line login - and it will list the resorts you have access to as TT resorts. You will also have the ability to make reservations at other Encore properties at a 20% discount. There are also promotions available for some Encore properties for certain times with a much larger discount.

Reservations need to be made through the national on-line system/ phone line - not directly with the individual resort. The people at the individual resorts do not have access to the details of your particular membership. So they can give you the wrong rate information over the phone. When a member checks in at a TT resort - the computer system tells the folks at the gate/ranger/office station how much you will have to pay, if anything.

Your 'one year of free camping' is probably a 'Zone Pass' program.

A Zone Pass allows you to camp for up to 14 days at one resort for free. You then must be out of the TT/Encore system for 7 days before you can camp at another TT park. You cannot travel directly from one TT park to another unless the stays have been four days or less.

i.e. If someone had a two zone pass with the Midwest and Southeast, they could be traveling to Florida could stay two nights at Pine Country in IL, two nights at Horseshoe Lakes in IN, two nights at Diamond Caverns in KY, two nights at Hidden Cove in AL, two nights at Carolina Landing in SC, two nights at The Oaks at Point South in SC and then 14 nights at Three Flags in Florida.

That would be 26 straight nights. Each of the intermediate stops could be up to four days - so potentially - 38 straight nights. However when heading back north - that member would have to stay at non-TT campgrounds for seven days before they could us a TT property as a stopover.

With a Zone Pass we've stayed two weeks at an Encore Resort in the Rio Grande Valley while getting dental work done in Mexico. By staying at an Encore property for over four days - we were not able to use TT properties on our way back to Dallas. Now with a full membership - we stop at Medina Lake, Lake Whitney and finish at Lake Texoma - and it doesn't matter how long we stayed at other properties/ resorts.

The Zone Pass program includes 30 nights camping at 'no-fee' per year. After 30 nights there is a base fee of $3 per night for staying at any resort.

That 'no-fee' camping does not include utility fees for upgrades to 50 amp power. Some resorts like those in Texas charge $3 per day extra for 50 amp power. Las Vegas and most on the west coast charge $5 per day for 50 amp. Don't know about the East Coast parks.

Some properties like Lake Tawakoni in Texas have no 50 amp at all. Some like Bay Landing have only 33 50 amps sites out of a total of 224 sites. And 19 of those 50 amps sites are taken by Annuals - so really there are only 14 are available to members who move from park to park. Brutal in the summer in Texas with temps over 100.

A big advantage of the Membership programs is that we can travel from park to park with no 'out of system' time required. And we can stay up to 21 days. We also have 'no fee' camping for the entire year - not just 30 days.

If a person spends over 65-90 nights per year in at a TT property - the few thousand dollar up front costa and the $500-800 per yearly dues can be easily justified.

A medical problem caused us to spent 28 straight nights at TT Las Vegas in Nov and Dec this past year with 30 amp power. We paid nothing beyond our yearly membership dues for the first 21 nights, and paid $29 for the next seven nights.

We then had run our of available days, and had to move out to Nellis AFB where we stayed two nights for $42 as the final labs were being completed.

Two nights later we were at Pio Pico outside San Diego where we stayed 21 nights before the issue required we return to the Dallas area. Two nights on the road, and we were back at Bay Landing near Fort Worth.

As full-timers, you can see how the membership works to our advantage.

[PawPaw_n_Gram]

catkins wrote:
OP here- have a full (resale) membership and have for about five years. Was told TT is making changes to my membership.

Depending upon the individual contract - TT might be wanting to sell you an 'upgrade' to the current top level membership plan.

A couple things in the current plan that likely are not in yours -

Getaway Club - where you pay about $3,000 up front, and have access to the Getaway Cabins for one week a year for the next 10 years - already prepaid.

Encore 'TT Parks' - some people have been able to select four Encore resorts - and they work just like TT parks for those people. 21 days, no fee for 30 amp, no resort fees, etc. The Encore parks which participate in this program are not all Encore parks. I would be surprised if San Francisco RV Resort is in that program. The contract we purchased has three Encore resorts in the Orlando area and one near Daytona Beach which we can use / book as our included TT resorts.

But the key is that TT is always willing to sell someone with a resale membership an 'upgrade' to the current top level membership.

(Bay Landing - summer in Texas is not time to get work done on pools. The companies are heavily booked - and charge a high premium for doing repair work in the summer. Many can get 150-200% premium rates from people in a hurry to get their pool completed/ fixed. We've been here a week this January, and someone was out there working every day.)

[JKJavelin]

So, what's the deal with this Thousand Trails? We just bought our trailer and the dealer gave us a supposedly 'one year of free camping' membership with them. There are a handful of Thousand Trail campgrounds, then there's the Encore part of their membership. I called one of those and she said it's a 20% discount. WTF is free about that? I figured this was probably a scam from the beginning. I never trust the finance guys.
JK

[Acampingwewillg]

Very well said "Paw Paw"....you pretty much hit the nail on the head. I've talked to several employee's at problem Parks and have heard exactly what you reference..that is, difficulties in obtaining permits to allow certain upgrades because of environmental issues. Of course that doesn't address the other issues that they could fix in an on going effort of general up keep. Funny you mentioned Bay Landing..we spend 10 days there last August(think Hot) and to see that junk piled around the pool with absolutely no work being done and No work scheduled, no completion date at all.....add that to the lame excuses about the Piss Poor Wi-Fi and how it was only available at the small adult lodge...just very frustrating.

[catkins]

OP here- have a full (resale) membership and have for about five years. Was told TT is making changes to my membership. Typically could get zero info from the caller. Aggravated at changes with lots of annual sites being sold at some locals and lack of repairs at Vegas, Oceana and others giving a less than as advertised experience. Guess time will tell what they are trying to do now.

[PawPaw_n_Gram]

We had a Zone Pass, and I'm betting you do.

All they are doing is trying to get you into a sales meeting.

We did find Thousand Trails campgrounds good for us. They are not high-end resorts. Some are on par with a state park or a COE park. Some are simply RV parking lots. (One advantage over COE parks in Texas is that most COE parks lock the gate at 10 pm, while TT does have access to campers who choose to go to dinner and a movie.)

We did purchase an upgraded full memberhip - Platinum Elite - a resale of an older membership contract through a broker. It works for us.

The key thing to understand about TT is that there are literally hundreds of versions of the advanced contracts.

They cannot make massive changes to the basic number of days access, daily access fees (if any), etc. They have thousands of these contracts out which list specific terms and the company cannot change them unilaterally.

The reason for scheduling at 'their convenience' is that a particular sales person wants the commission if you decide to purchase an upgraded plan. If Sally from campground A got you on the phone, she doesn't want you to meet with Charlie at campground B.

I just walked into the sales office at the campground where we were staying, and asked the person behind the desk about the details of the 'new program'. He asked for my membership card, and then told me about the very few options which might be available to me none of which made any economic sense.

Most were related to buying stays at 'Getaway Club' cabins for several thousand dollars up front to be used over the next 10 years.

Yes, TT is putting some money into their parks. Construction is slow. The Las Vegas Clubhouse/ Activity Center was damaged by a storm in May - and as of Dec 19 when we left was still not open. I can't find anything on-line to say it has reopened yet.

Bay Landing in Texas has finally been able to patch the pool so that it no longer leaks. It might be open this summer after being closed over a year.

One thing I can see is an issue for TT is that some CGs simply don't have the infrastructure available to upgrade power to 50amp. The power lines simply aren't there to add that much usage. Bay Landing and Lake Tawakoni in Texas cannot add sewer sites because they would have to pump the sewage 12 miles in one case, 22 miles in the other to a suitable treatment facility. Both are located on the shore of water supply lakes so on-site septic treatment is not allowed. (East Fork COE park on Lake Lavon near Dallas has the same issue - they actually put in the sewer system to the sites several years ago - but the water supply district stopped them from building a septic system, and the Corps won't/can't pay for city sewage treatment.)

Each campground has its own unique set of local circumstances.

I do wish that when you check into a campground - they would all have the Annual/ Permanent sites clearly marked like Pio Pico does near San Diego.

Lake Conroe is the worst in my experience. They appear to simply not care anything about TT members who are not signing Annual or Seasonal contracts with their CG for extra fees.

[Acampingwewillg]

Don't worry too much about this selling "ploy" ....we attended the meeting a couple months ago and it basically is a pitch to get you to spend more money on an upgrade. I suppose the usefulness of these upgrades depend on your current membership. I already had the Elite Access so the newer program (RV'ing wise) had No real use to me.

They do discuss some changes in cleaning up the Parks some(limiting the number of annuals, getting other problem area's addressed, upgrading electric and general maintenance ). I didn't feel any high pressure like you might from a "time share" presentation...I did not upgrade, it wasn't needed for us.