Modification ideas for boondocking

[Bluebeard]

I've got some ideas and I thought I'd run it by you guys (gals):

First of all I have an 2002 Arctic Fox 24-5N 5er which I plan on exclusively using for boondocking in the high mountain western states. I bought the trailer for a song, and I am not concerned about losing resale value. No hookups- ever- so here are my thoughts:

1. I will NEVER use the rooftop air conditioner. NEVER. And if I were in a location where I needed cooler "conditioning" I would most likely build a 5 gal bucket swamp cooler. So I was thinking of taking off the AC from the roof and putting a vent in there. However, the AC hole in the roof has remote vent lines taking off from the cut out in the roof. So I was thinking, for heating and cooling, to modify the vent fan such that the actual fan was located BELOW the intakes to the vents. If I wanted to spread conditioned air (hot or cold) through out the trailer, I just need to turn on the fan with the vent top closed, and I would assume the air would be spread around the camper. Yes/No?

2. I plan on putting in a Cat heater as the cycling of the forced air fan on the furnace at night keeps me awake. So I was thinking of replacing the stock furnace with a Wave 6 heater mounted pretty much in the same location as where the furnace was. I was thinking of taking out the furnace, and then putting in a low speed (quiet) muffin type fan at the entrance of the heater ducts where the furnace used to be and to have a switch where I could turn on the muffin fan on the really cold nights to circulate (at a low speed) the cabin heat down to the basement.

Is this plausible? Any suggestions for a decent 4' 12v fan that is quiet and moves air?

3. Has anyone ever considered setting up a mini drainback solar hydronic system on the roof to preheat the water for the hot water heater? I would be pretty simple to set up with some black tubing on the roof, and it would run on sunny days. When you came back from hiking, maybe the water in the hot tank would be 120F, so you wouldn't need to fire up the furnace.

Thanks for any insight.

[Bluebeard]

Well, if someone wanted to get REALLY fancy (if they weren't using a heat exchanger) they could add a thermostatically controlled EL Cid (as per smkittner noted in my thread about a recirc system) pump to heat the water and pump it when the temps got cold. But either way, hydronics would need to be insulated in the areas you DIDN'T want the heat to release towards.

Just about everywhere I go has lots of sun as I am on the dry side of the Sierras and there is a lot of open sky here.

[AllegroD]

Also, though obvious, of note is that you have to sit in the sun for the Hydro system to work.

[RedRocket204]

Bluebeard wrote:
3. Has anyone ever considered setting up a mini drainback solar hydronic system on the roof to preheat the water for the hot water heater? I would be pretty simple to set up with some black tubing on the roof, and it would run on sunny days. When you came back from hiking, maybe the water in the hot tank would be 120F, so you wouldn't need to fire up the furnace.

Just want to point out that this would be an additional item that would need to be winterized along with any other radiant heating you would consider. So if you do move forward, design into it ease of winterizing... something like sprinkler blow out ports or ???

[Bluebeard]

Todd, do you have any photos? Diagrams? I'd be interested to see what you did.

Did you add the Atwood as a supplemental heater? or do you have a heat exchanger, where you are heating both domestic hot water and the cabin? I am severely space limited in my 24.5 foot 5th wheel, so I wouldn't have room for a "spare" anything, mechanical.

[toddb]

I built a hydronic heater with a spare atwood water heater, solar pump and a large PC case fan. It keeps our 99 tailgator at 60 easily , we've camped to 34*. It's quiet burns half the propane and power of the old forced air heater. I have about $150 in it.

[Bluebeard]

Smkettner, does anyone have any efficiency numbers for the hot water heater in these things? I guess you could use the hot water heater for hydronics..... still, running the plumbing could be problematic. It would be much easier to do hydronic in something you are building from the ground up than to try to retrofit around slides, etc. Do you have any knowledge of anyone attempting hydronics as a retrofit? I bet it would be challenging.

[SteveAE]

I too thought about removing the AC. Have used it only a few times in 5 years. But, for those times that I have used it, I was very glad I had it. It is also a handy place to mount the outside antenna for the cell booster. If you do keep the AC and you plan to use your trailer in the winter, consider insulating the inside of it (I unplug it and put some reflectix insulation and foam in it).

I really like my Wave 6 heater. It is radiant heat (very comfortable as long as the heater is pointed you), but it doesn't do a very good job of heating the air (the air is heated after objects in the room heat up and then they heat the air). So having the built in furnace is still very handy (when I come back from cross country skiing or snowshoeing I want heat now....not an hour from now). Also, for winter camping, I think it's a good idea to have a back-up heat source. It's very important to keep the Wave heaters protected from dust. A cover helps, but mine on screws, with a quick disconnect and valve upstream, so it's easy to remove and store. A Endless Breeze (low power box fan made by Fantastic Fan) is handy to move heated air (once you finally get it) around the cabin area.

When it is really cold (below zero), I use a fan to force air into the furnace return vent, thus pushing "some" air into the "basement" area. I also have a thermostatically controlled fan forcing cabin air under the refrigerator and adjoining "bathtub" where there is plumbing that gets really cold otherwise.

LED lights, solar, and lots of batteries are your friends for extended boondocking (esp. in the winter) trips.

If you do decide to put in hydronic heat using your hot water heater), check first to verify that you can get enough heat out of the system for the type of weather you want to camp in. For a smaller space, such as a bathroom, it would be good. But, since the air coming out tends to be only slightly warmer than average room ambient (esp. when using your hot water heater), there is a bit of a windchill effect when your skin is wet. Anyway, some things to consider.

Have fun with your new project whatever routes you may choose.

[time2roll]

Diesel? I meant to just 12v pump some water from the existing water heater to a simple baseboard hydronic heater.

www.zoro.com/classic-architectural-closed-loop-heater-white $136

[Bluebeard]

Smkettner- Believe me, I was considering hydronics (I have it in my house), but the logistics and cost of both purchasing AND installing a diesel fired Snuggler, was way too much for this project. If I were building a camper from the ground up, I'd definitely consider it. Or if I had $400k I wasn't doing anything with, I'd buy one of these that has all that stuff in it: http://earthroamer.com/xv-hd/

I could probably design and build one like it for 1/4 the price, but it wouldn't be as nice, but it WOULD be functional.

[Bluebeard]

I looked at the platinum cat...... it is 8 weeks backordered, and from the sounds of it, a cat would be less efficient to be used to blow ambient air into the basement, since apparently it heats up the structure, rather than the air.

As for an $8 swamp cooler, here you go: http://offgridsurvival.com/offgrid-airconditioner-diy-bucket-air-cooler/ I see how it could easily be modded for window use. It's a pretty cool design, and I guess the "burners" out at Burning Man use them a lot and they work well in the desert.

[Bluebeard]

Yeah, the platinum cat would be nice, but it is 8 weeks back ordered. I'm not sure I want to wait that long.

Thanks for everyone's opinion, as everything is being considered. If I sound snippy to your response, I apologize... written responses often give the wrong tone. I appreciate everyone's response on this.

[time2roll]

1) I would pass on trying to use the ducted air conditioner vents to distribute air. Far better to just use a 12 volt fan to distribute air.

Amazon - Endless Breeze

I would just cover the hole to make more space for another solar panel :B
Fantastic fan or equivalent in the bathroom is plenty.

2) Again the air distribution will be poor until the stack of muffin fans makes as much noise as the furnace. See fan above for better solution. Alternatively get a two speed furnace to run on low speed at night.

3) More work than the propane savings will ever pay. I would be more inclined to use the hot water from the heater to warm the trailer with a radiator. This should prove to be quiet.

Just my random thoughts. Best of luck and post some pictures.

[n7bsn]

If you can build a working swamp cooler for $8 I would be amazed, the pump should run more then that.

If I really wanted a swamp cooler I would just by one for RVs link

[camperfamily]

For the cat heater look up Platinum Cat - they offer a model that vents the combustion byproducts outside the trailer. Would likely be my first choice to keep the excess moisture and potential CO from combustion under control.

[Bluebeard]

Mini Splits are wayyyyyyyyy to expensive for my budget.... Let me think $8 DIY swam cooler vs $1000 Mini Split...... (drum roll)- no thanks, I'll try the swamp cooler first. This way I don't need to purchase a generator to run it (add $500+)