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Seat heater-->Tank heater

EMD360
Explorer
Explorer
We have moved to a colder climate and want to figure out how to keep camping despite below freezing temperatures. Need to make modifications in several areas but first was worried about the water supply.
I investigated installing tank heaters--ours are exposed. Tank heaters are pretty expensive, but seat heating pads are not--about $40 for a set. So I ordered a set that came with two pads and one controller but no instructions.
There were four wires that had to be hooked up--only two were what I expected--red and black. For this project I ordered some good 14 ga. Marine wire but in red and yellow because it was a bit cheaper than red and black. I wired an empty fuse on the electrical box with the yellow to hot and the red to ground. Then I promptly miswired the switch red to red and blew the new fuse! Duh.
Correcting that error was simple if counter-intuitive, red to yellow and black to red. But what to do with the green and yellow? I tried wiring them to a switch, thinking that they would normally go to the ignition to turn on only when the car was on, but that was wrong. I ended up finding a car forum that described a similar switch install and the explanation was yellow is the switch wire--shows the amber light in the photo that the pad is turned on and green is the power light--just shows power is available. Both are wired to the hot wire along with the red/yellow power wire.

The switch is located below the shower tray--in the open area that holds the drain pipes for the plumbing. I drilled the hole to the tank sensors a bit larger and got the connectors through to the tank area. The power wire is routed from the panel in the closet past the vanity in the bathroom through the chase behind the toilet and under the shower. Kind of a pain to pull, but nice that there is a path for the wire.

The pads are a white paper-like material with two adhesive strips. I cleaned the underside of the tanks well and then peeled off the protective strips and adhered them to the tanks.

Not very substantial but I plan to put some insulation board over them to hold in the heat and protect them from the elements.

The valve that goes to the gray tank is pretty exposed, but the black tank valve is more protected. I will need to think about how to keep these from freezing too.
I think just a little heat will keep the tanks from freezing up especially if I box them in with insulation. The temp of the pads was about 70 degrees with the heat dial turned all the way up.
2018 Minnie Winnie 25b New to us 3/2021
Former Rental Owners Club #137
2003 Itasca Spirit 22e 2009-2021
33 REPLIES 33

jrnymn7
Explorer
Explorer
Yeah, the guy I bought the hand grip heaters from (on ebay) actually emailed me saying there would be a delay because of stock.

The hot water freezing faster thing is when you wash cold windows outside, with hot water. It evaporates very quickly, thus leaving a very thin film that quickly freezes. But adding hot water to your tank will serve to bring up the temperature somewhat, as well as mix things up a bit, seeing as the warmer water will naturally migrate to the top of the tank.

Reflective insulating is very effective. I once owned a late 50's to early 60's house that had no insulation in the walls; only a thin film of aluminum on the back of the plaster board (a precursor to drywall). It worked quite well, as my heating and cooling bills were not far out of line with many newer homes with fiberglass insul. So combining both reflective and air-trapping insulation works very well. I used "fibrex" (rock wool) and a reflectix type of insul in the walls and ceiling of my camper; and reflextix type on the floor, to help limit heat from the exhaust pipe, in summer.

EMD360
Explorer
Explorer
Hmm. Does that work? Doesn't hot water freeze faster than cold?
Thanks for the ideas for enclosing the tanks. I'm going to use leftover pieces of polyiso from our house remodel and I was planning to buy a piece of 4 x8 sheet plastic to cover that. I could do a layer of reflectix too. Was going to hang the insulated boxes from the steel holders for the tanks. But might not get to it until next year. Don't have the handlebar heaters yet. May not make it until January! That is a lot longer than from an ebay seller.
2018 Minnie Winnie 25b New to us 3/2021
Former Rental Owners Club #137
2003 Itasca Spirit 22e 2009-2021

jrnymn7
Explorer
Explorer
Another way to help keep the fresh water tank from freezing is to install a diverter valve in a hot water line, and if necessary, dump some heated water right back into the tank.

jrnymn7
Explorer
Explorer
I ordered two pair of the hand grip heaters to place under the batteries... will probably put something between for a bit of cushioning... and a seat heater for the fridge compartment. I also ordered a couple of cheap 12v thermostats to help regulate the temps. I guess we'll see how they all work out.

EMD360
Explorer
Explorer
The switch is "continuously variable" although I have only used it on high. It also clicks off. The amber light goes off but the green light stays on as long as it has power. This pic is what the switch looks like but it is not my photo. I found this pic through Google images and that led me to the information about the wiring.

In this pic you can see both lights on the switch.
2018 Minnie Winnie 25b New to us 3/2021
Former Rental Owners Club #137
2003 Itasca Spirit 22e 2009-2021

spoon059
Explorer II
Explorer II
jrnymn7 wrote:
spoon,

I don't imagine a small 70F pad is going to raise several gallons of water to 70F in cold weather, especially if the tank is continually being replenished with cold water. Hopefully, it will keep the water well above freezing. It's kinda like the propane water heater having to fire up during use.

I must have misunderstood... I thought you said the water temp was 70 degrees. I see now the picture shows the PAD is 70 degrees.
2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS

jrnymn7
Explorer
Explorer
EMD,

To clarify,

the switch is a "continuous adjustble" switch, not simply on/off, or clicks at different (low/high) settings?

are the pads 50w/4a each, or total?

Thanks!

jrnymn7
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks, EMD.

I think those hand grip heaters will work very well for spot heating. Apparently they come in both 3w and 10w. I'm like you though; I prefer slow continuous heat over full-on, full-off heat.

And yes, boxing in the tanks will make a huge difference. I would use a combination of closed cell (blue)styrofoam and foil backed bubble wrap. (Or even a layer of your basic lightweight tinfoil would make a big difference in heat loss. Just remember, the thinner the better, when it comes to reflecting heat). However, the bubble wrap stuff is equivalent to about 1 1/2" of rigid, IIRC.

If you want to help spread the heat around, wrapping the bottom and sides of the tank with copper foil will work well. So, copper foil, then heater pad, then rigid insul, then tin foil, preferably with bubble wrap.

EMD360
Explorer
Explorer
If you look at the thermostat specs for this heater it shows degrees centigrade which is obviously incorrect.
Thermostat 65 +10/-5?
The sizes etc. are translated into inches but I think they forgot to change the label to fahrenheit.
2018 Minnie Winnie 25b New to us 3/2021
Former Rental Owners Club #137
2003 Itasca Spirit 22e 2009-2021

EMD360
Explorer
Explorer
Yes, and I'm not sure the 70 degrees will be enough without an insulation enclosure on the tanks too.

I bought the seat heater on ebay and it shipped from China.
Seat Heater
The question I asked was did the heater include 2 SETS and one control, i.e. for two seats. The answer was yes, but the language was an issue--so I asked them to update their site, and they did! It is now much clearer that you are getting a set of two pads for one seat.
But for my trouble, they sent me a second set.

It is not obvious, but the switch on this set is not only is variable for temperature (the 70 degrees was on HIGH), but it also turns off the heater. It does not come with any wiring diagrams etc. but the three color leads are for three different functions, ON is red, and yellow and green are the amber and green lights that show the switch has power or that it is on. I tried to put another switch on the system until I found an explanation of the wiring online.

I'm currently waiting for the motorcycle handlebar heaters for the valves. I bought those from amazon, but it is another China supplier. Cost was something like $4.62 with shipping though.
2018 Minnie Winnie 25b New to us 3/2021
Former Rental Owners Club #137
2003 Itasca Spirit 22e 2009-2021

jrnymn7
Explorer
Explorer
EMD, could you please post a link to the seat heater pads you bought. I've been looking for something in the 70F range. Most claim to heat up to over 90F.

Thanks!

jrnymn7
Explorer
Explorer
spoon,

I don't imagine a small 70F pad is going to raise several gallons of water to 70F in cold weather, especially if the tank is continually being replenished with cold water. Hopefully, it will keep the water well above freezing. It's kinda like the propane water heater having to fire up during use.

spoon059
Explorer II
Explorer II
Just curious... why are you heating the water to 70 degrees? Are you planning bathing with it, or simply preventing it from freezing?
2015 Ram CTD
2015 Jayco 29QBS

EMD360
Explorer
Explorer
Oh, I know that UHaul place--I returned a trailer there after our cross country move. The guy was really nice. I didn't see the propane there, maybe it is new. Glad to know they have propane too. Thanks!
I was at the new Camping World store. They don't have a dump station but the website says they have propane too.
2018 Minnie Winnie 25b New to us 3/2021
Former Rental Owners Club #137
2003 Itasca Spirit 22e 2009-2021