2012 f250 Diesel Engine Fifthwheel towing

[losmt21]

Everyone.

I am glad to be a part of this formum. I have seen some really good questions get answered and I firmly believe this discussion. I wanted to ask a couple of questions concerning fifthwheel towing. I have a 2012 F250 Diesel short bed with 3.55 gears. I am currenly looking at purchasing a 2014 gateway (heartland) Fifthwheel. The Dry weight is 11,000 and the Gross total weight 14,000. The pin weight will be 2070 lbs. My truck is 10,000 I was wondering if I would have enough truck to pull this camper? 90% percent of the time I will be camping local within 15 minutes from my house. Maybe once a year travel outside of GA. Reading from my door are Front #5940 and rear 6100 from the sticker on my door.

[losmt21]

therink wrote:

losmt21 wrote:
Thanks for getting back to me so soon. If thats the case what would be the largest 5er I could haul. Then I will proably look for Fifthwheels under 10,000 Gross. Thanks for your help!

Steve

I would recommend a fiver with gvwr under 12k to be within posted gvwr of truck. Will it handle more? Sure, but I prefer to stay within the posted ratings on the sticker with my set up. In the event of an accident, exceedance of any truck ratings could come into play.
You will likely get lots of opinions on this issue. Its your choice.
Good luck and be safe.
Steve

Thanks for all your help. I recently purchased a new 5th wheel its 2014 Montana High Country 355re. Its 37 feet long and its pretty light. The truck does drop a couple of inches so I will be putting some firestone air bags on to level it out but nothing else needs to be done.

The 5th wheel information is:
I kept it close to GVWR at 12,000 or close. So I should be okay with this set up.

Shipping Weight
9693
Carrying Capacity
2452
Hitch
2005
Length
37' 3"
Height
12' 9"

[JohnBoyToo]

Most tire mfg's have inflation charts available like:
Michelin

and should be used if there is any question on load limits... I know I do 🙂

and as is the case with many tires (including st's) you CAN over inflate up to a safe limit to help with loading and or speed ratings...
(at least with mine you can 🙂 YRMV)

Here's the load ratings through different levels of inflation for my LT275/65-20.

PSI Load Rating

80 3750
75 3540
70 3375
65 3195
60 3030
50 2680
45 2475
40 2280
35 2080

[txbassmn]

I have a 2013 F250. Only thing I have added is the Timbren SES on it. I have a Bay Hill 5ver weighing in unloaded at 11,200# and the pin weight is 2200#. This is according to cat scales. The truck and trailer ride great, everything rides level and within tire, axle and gross limits. You should be fine.

[BlindGuynAR]

losmt21 wrote:

PA12DRVR wrote:
BlindGuy,.....I guess I'm a bit unclear about the thrust of your post. Won't argue with the facts/info as presented, but it seems to me that you're suggesting that the OP (or others similarly situated) should look at the sticker to determine the load capacity of their rear or front axles.

I certainly don't disagree with that.....but one of the issues that routinely pops up on these forums is "GVWR" and "GCVWR"....if one is to follow/rely on the door sticker's ratings for front and rear axle weight ratings, shouldn't one also rely on the GVWR and GCVWR as posted on the sticker (if such ratings are on the sticker)?

All moot of course since the OP, as is his right, has decided to go on the "I'll do what the other guy is doing" route.

Correction: My mistake, The dry weight was #12,800 with a gvwr of over 15,000lbs.

It was mostly to state an f250 can do it, but just adding air bags isn't the answer.

Understanding why the f250 is not the same as a f350 is key so all the short comings can be addressed so the OP can be safe as possible. If an f250 will be used then let's make it safe. Since the little white sticker is not legally binding then him exceeding it #'s isn't breaking any laws.

Heck my neighbor towes a 40ft Raptor with a dry pin weight of 3200lb with a dodge 2500.

Seeing 6100 RAWR on a sticker and knowing why the same exact axle on an f350 is rated 1200lbs higher is the point.

For example Tire pressure if left at 65psi will be unsafe. Running 80psi makes it safe with that tire while towing. Then air down to maintain ride quality for daily driving.

Adding air bags is a start to fix missing overloads, but what if they fail or air leak occurs?

Just want him to think and upgrade total package and be as safe as possible if he's going to "run what he brong"

[losmt21]

BlindGuynAR wrote:
Use this info how you choose. Every truck is different and what one person is ok with someone else isn't.

For sure a 1 ton with training wheels is the going to be a tow monster, but can it be done with less? You better believe it since I see it everyday.

Also don't listen to someone saying you can pull it, but can you stop it? Your 250 is "rated" to pull/stop 15,500 lb fifth wheel. (With the use of trailer brakes with is a requirement on f350 as well)

Only pin weight is stopping you. Well read on brother for the research I did.

Certain f250 SRW's and f350 SRW's are the same truck with the same axle it's just de-rated on the f250.

Part#'s are the same for axle shafts and axle housing here are part#'s

The housing is part # BC3Z*4010*D the driver axle is BC3Z*4234*C and the passenger is BC3Z*4234*D look them up. They are the same between 250 and 350 for certain models.

So the rawr rating of 6100 on an f250 vs. 7280 on f350 isn't axle strength. In fact sterling rates the axle at around 9300 lbs period..

In this case the f250 it is springs, lift blocks, and tires that to bring it down to 6100 and reduce its payload.

First tires:
I wonder if anyone reads the white sticker in the door? Does anyone catch the words "with tires rims psi cold" the last word on each line.

Example:
6100lb WITH
LT275/65R-20E TIRES
20x8.0J RIMS
65 PSI COLD

Pay special attention to the word "with" since the means its means if that setup changes the rating changes.

Anyway read this as Its rated at 6100lb's "with" those tires and those rims at that psi.

In fact those tires have a max rating of 3750 per tire at 80psi which is the psi on an f350 door tag. Lets do the math. 3750 x 2 = 7500 max load.

Well that's pretty close to 7280 for the f350's axle rating so lets see what else it can tell us about that same tire. 3750 x 2 = 7500 / 80 = 93.75 lbs of load per psi.

Now lets use that and the 65 psi rating for the f250. 93.75 x 65 = 6093.75. I think we just found the 6100 lb load rating of the f250 axle.

Now springs/blocks:
The f350 has an overload spring where the f250 does not.

So the extra spring will resist more weight and ride more level. This is even more true since the back of an f350 sits 2 in higher due to 4 in lift blocks rather than 2 in on an f250.

Looking at the specs on the springs you'll see the overload is rated to deflect 465 lbs per spring x 2 = 930 extra load support.

So a combination of this extra 930 lbs extra load capacity, in addition to sitting 2 in higher in the rear, and the tires give the f350 it's higher rating.

If someone were wanting to exceed a f250 rating all aspects would need addressed not just tires to bring it up to an f350 level.

To be clear the little white sticker is a requirement between ford and the government. You aren't bound to it in any legal form.

Think about it. If you say you put diff tires on the truck the sticker is invalid at that point since size or rating would no longer match sticker. Change gears same deal.

The door sticker states GAWR":" 6100lbs "with" (it actually says "with") that combo ford rates it at a certain load. The ":" is important as it says everything after is an encompassing statement of GAWR.

again i read this sticker as Its rated at 6100lb's "with" those tires and those "rims" at that "psi" "cold".

So lift a truck,chg springs, new tire/rim combo or gears and the sticker no longer applies. Think it I were to put donut wheels and hook up a fiver could i blame ford when it didn't work since the sticker was there? No since the sticker no longer applied.

If you agree changing tires, adding a lift kit, changing springs, or after market rims aren't illegal to do to your truck then by definition the sticker on the door can't be legally binding since we just legally invalidated it without a court or a lawyer.

Anyway make your own call on it.

That's some great info and makes you think would it be worth changing everything on this truck. Proably not, so I will see what other fifthwheels are available with lower GWVR. That was some really good info, Thanks Guy!

[losmt21]

PA12DRVR wrote:
BlindGuy,.....I guess I'm a bit unclear about the thrust of your post. Won't argue with the facts/info as presented, but it seems to me that you're suggesting that the OP (or others similarly situated) should look at the sticker to determine the load capacity of their rear or front axles.

I certainly don't disagree with that.....but one of the issues that routinely pops up on these forums is "GVWR" and "GCVWR"....if one is to follow/rely on the door sticker's ratings for front and rear axle weight ratings, shouldn't one also rely on the GVWR and GCVWR as posted on the sticker (if such ratings are on the sticker)?

All moot of course since the OP, as is his right, has decided to go on the "I'll do what the other guy is doing" route.

Correction: My mistake, The dry weight was #12,800 with a gvwr of over 15,000lbs.

[PA12DRVR]

BlindGuy,.....I guess I'm a bit unclear about the thrust of your post. Won't argue with the facts/info as presented, but it seems to me that you're suggesting that the OP (or others similarly situated) should look at the sticker to determine the load capacity of their rear or front axles.

I certainly don't disagree with that.....but one of the issues that routinely pops up on these forums is "GVWR" and "GCVWR"....if one is to follow/rely on the door sticker's ratings for front and rear axle weight ratings, shouldn't one also rely on the GVWR and GCVWR as posted on the sticker (if such ratings are on the sticker)?

All moot of course since the OP, as is his right, has decided to go on the "I'll do what the other guy is doing" route.

[losmt21]

Hello, Guys

I ended up going to Camping World in Woodstock GA. When I was getting out of my truck. I noticed a 2006 Dodge Ram 2500 towing a large fifthwheel. I was just curious on how much that Camper weighed. I started talking to the Gentleman and he was very nice and was able to answer all my questions. First I ask for the Dry weight of this Camper he said it was #15,800 dry and not sure what the total weight but its gotta be close to #17,000. I asked him how his truck pulled this camper and he said he was very well not to hard to stop just have to plan ahead a little like with anything that size. He said his pin weight was around 2200lbs he just added air springs and the truck set level with 30 lbs. With that being said I shouldnt have a problem with a dry weight 11,000 and gvwr of 14,000. I will be adding air bags before the purchase of the fifthwheel Also he had a diesel engine with the regular size bed.

[JohnBoyToo]

Dang BlindGuy !!!

You silly boy using logic for such an emotional subject !!!!


Very good and well stated !:E


I guess next you are going to get into oil analysis or something ?!?!
Pshaw !!!! 🙂

[BlindGuynAR]

Use this info how you choose. Every truck is different and what one person is ok with someone else isn't.

For sure a 1 ton with training wheels is the going to be a tow monster, but can it be done with less? You better believe it since I see it everyday.

Also don't listen to someone saying you can pull it, but can you stop it? Your 250 is "rated" to pull/stop 15,500 lb fifth wheel. (With the use of trailer brakes with is a requirement on f350 as well)

Only pin weight is stopping you. Well read on brother for the research I did.

Certain f250 SRW's and f350 SRW's are the same truck with the same axle it's just de-rated on the f250.

Part#'s are the same for axle shafts and axle housing here are part#'s

The housing is part # BC3Z*4010*D the driver axle is BC3Z*4234*C and the passenger is BC3Z*4234*D look them up. They are the same between 250 and 350 for certain models.

So the rawr rating of 6100 on an f250 vs. 7280 on f350 isn't axle strength. In fact sterling rates the axle at around 9300 lbs period..

In this case the f250 it is springs, lift blocks, and tires that to bring it down to 6100 and reduce its payload.

First tires:
I wonder if anyone reads the white sticker in the door? Does anyone catch the words "with tires rims psi cold" the last word on each line.

Example:
6100lb WITH
LT275/65R-20E TIRES
20x8.0J RIMS
65 PSI COLD

Pay special attention to the word "with" since the means its means if that setup changes the rating changes.

Anyway read this as Its rated at 6100lb's "with" those tires and those rims at that psi.

In fact those tires have a max rating of 3750 per tire at 80psi which is the psi on an f350 door tag. Lets do the math. 3750 x 2 = 7500 max load.

Well that's pretty close to 7280 for the f350's axle rating so lets see what else it can tell us about that same tire. 3750 x 2 = 7500 / 80 = 93.75 lbs of load per psi.

Now lets use that and the 65 psi rating for the f250. 93.75 x 65 = 6093.75. I think we just found the 6100 lb load rating of the f250 axle.

Now springs/blocks:
The f350 has an overload spring where the f250 does not.

So the extra spring will resist more weight and ride more level. This is even more true since the back of an f350 sits 2 in higher due to 4 in lift blocks rather than 2 in on an f250.

Looking at the specs on the springs you'll see the overload is rated to deflect 465 lbs per spring x 2 = 930 extra load support.

So a combination of this extra 930 lbs extra load capacity, in addition to sitting 2 in higher in the rear, and the tires give the f350 it's higher rating.

If someone were wanting to exceed a f250 rating all aspects would need addressed not just tires to bring it up to an f350 level.

To be clear the little white sticker is a requirement between ford and the government. You aren't bound to it in any legal form.

Think about it. If you say you put diff tires on the truck the sticker is invalid at that point since size or rating would no longer match sticker. Change gears same deal.

The door sticker states GAWR":" 6100lbs "with" (it actually says "with") that combo ford rates it at a certain load. The ":" is important as it says everything after is an encompassing statement of GAWR.

again i read this sticker as Its rated at 6100lb's "with" those tires and those "rims" at that "psi" "cold".

So lift a truck,chg springs, new tire/rim combo or gears and the sticker no longer applies. Think it I were to put donut wheels and hook up a fiver could i blame ford when it didn't work since the sticker was there? No since the sticker no longer applied.

If you agree changing tires, adding a lift kit, changing springs, or after market rims aren't illegal to do to your truck then by definition the sticker on the door can't be legally binding since we just legally invalidated it without a court or a lawyer.

Anyway make your own call on it.

[losmt21]

therink wrote:
The scaled cargo weight on my fifth wheel (supplies, and tools, food, drinks, bikes, hoses, and cords, tvs, options, and etc) for family of 4 loaded for camping is 1800 lbs with all tanks empty. You will likely break,1,000 lbs cargo very quick. It adds very quickly.

Okay thank you so much, I am trying to find 5th wheel around 10,000 gvwr...

[losmt21]

txdutt wrote:
bought our F250 & Infinity within the last month, have been out in the new rig twice--so far doing fine, GVW on the 5'er is 15.5K, I know I'm at max or probably over but still within my GCW.. you'll be fine

What year is your f250 and options. And also what size infinity camper did you purchase. Weight and pin weight?

Thanks!

Steve

[losmt21]

I know I will definelty do more homework before I consider purchasing this 5th Wheel. I am finding other nice 5th wheels around
10,000lbs with less pin weight that might be an option for me. Thanks again for all your guys help.

[sdetweil]

losmt21 wrote:
I do have the 20inch tires Michelin tires. I thought having the big tires
Will help with the towing. I am planning on taking my truck to a cat scale
Soon and just weigh it. I am pretty sure I will be over the limit a little but not
Sure why that would be a big deal .
Especially If I am only towing a few miles
From my house and maybe a trip to Florida.
I am located in Atlanta ga . Never thought it would be hard to make a
Decision because and yes I know what the salesman say. The dry weight is whatever and you usually only add 1000 lbs so if that's the case the camper
Will be at 12,000 not even close to 14,000. I don't think that's the big deal
I believe the big deal is the pin weight. I
Willing to make a few changes to the truck air bags and leaf springs. I am not in a spot where I can trade in my truck . Thanks for everyone a input.

Steve

go look at the labels on your tires.. typically they are the same as the 18s.. mine were 3680 @ 80psi max.

most accidents happen within 25 miles of home. Stay safe, for you, your kids and the others on the road.
there was an accident, (I'm looking for the story).. guy hauling a trailer got cut off at a traffic light, couldn't stop, couldn't turn enough, rolled over the 5th onto a van(pulled the truck over too), pushed the van under a tanker truck beside it. It only matters in that one second when you need the systems to work to their fullest.