Adventures in RV buying... (Long)

[laknox]

I've been on the hunt for a new FW for over 2 years and had settled on 2 different FWs. My #1 choice was a KZ Durango 1500 D284RLT; my #2 was a Jayco Eagle HT 27.5RLTS. The Jayco was #2 for several reasons but the biggest reason was the anemic 32.5 gal black tank. Since we boondock several times a year, and I've nearly filled the 45 gal tank in my old FW on more than one occasion, I didn't want to give up any more capacity than I had to. Also, the lower CCC figured in.

About 3 weeks ago I took DW to look at a Jayco at a local dealer. She liked it, overall, but one of her first comments was "where's the pantry?" I knew that kitchen cabinet space was limited on this model, but didn't realize just =how= limited. We do travel pretty light, so I wasn't too worried about it, and we even talked about getting a closed tea cart that we could move around. Also, having a heater vent right under one of the recliners (which is =really= stupid) turned her off, as she was concerned about what the heat would do to the chair. Now, we used the furnace in our old FW =maybe= a total of 7 days in 13 years of ownership, so I thought this was a non-starter. :B Anyway, this caused me to take a harder look at the KZ. Being very similar to the Jayco, it is also limited in kitchen storage, though it =does= have shelves to the left of the stove, both below and above, that would work for a pantry. There is also an optional kitchen island that would work well for pantry space; the extra counter space is a bonus. Since I was really looking for a model with lots of open space, the island was a turn-off for me, and I was very enamored with the tea cart idea.

This brings us to 2 weekends ago. We drive about an hour and a half to one of the only 2 KZ dealers to look at a somewhat similar 277RLT that is in stock, one of only 2 Durango 1500s in the entire state. The nearest 284 is almost a thousand miles away, in NorCal, and there is no way we're spending $1 on something we haven't seen in person. Long story short, DW =loves= it! So, now I'm having to shift my 2+ year study of these FWs to a different direction. Not a hard decision, since =she= likes it. This particular unit has been on the lot for 10 months. I'd called the dealership before going down and just happened to get the owner on the phone and he shot me an unbelievable price. That pretty much sealed the deal for me...depending on what it looked like after we saw it. We ended up doing a "mini-PDI" on it and pointed out a lot of the small stuff you might expect on a rig that's been sitting for 10 months; loose trim, some scuffs and scratches, etc. Biggest issue we caught was on the facia trim where the pantry door mounts. There is a crack completely through the wood, about 1.5" long. Don't know if it's bad wood or shoddy construction, but the rig is under warranty, so we're confident KZ will fix it. (More on this later.) Salesman is saying "no problem, we can fix that" to everything we pointed out. We leave without putting a down or signing anything saying we want to talk about it. Called them the following Monday and put a down on it; refundable, of course.

FF to this past Saturday. We head down to sign paperwork, but we want to look at it some more and literally do a "medium-PDI", which we did. Made a list of a lot of stuff we'd seen before as well as acknowledging some of the repairs that they'd already done. The cracked facia on the pantry KZ had already turned down a replacement repair on, so some glue, stain and a reinforcing strap on the back side was agreed to. I can live with that as it's not really structural, more just aesthetic. Several other pieces of loose trim were pointed out; a few nails/staples will take care of these. We did find another wood piece that was cracked completely through as well as loose, and they said they's fab a new piece and stain it to match. Easy fix that =I= could do, but this is a new f'n rig, right? My other major concern came on the roof. 2 vents had severely cracked sealeant; all the others looked perfect. Don't know why those 2 cracked so badly, though. Also, I found a scrape on the roof. Not bad, but there was one bad spot, maybe 1/4" across, that was pretty deep. They're going to bead some Dicor across that area, which I agreed to, though I wanted them to run about 2' of Eternabond across it, and which I'll likely do after it goes out of warranty. I don't =think= it fully penetrated, but my "thinking" often gets me in trouble.

Now, to the bad...

Personally, I was dreading buying a new RV simply having to deal with salesmen, and this trip was no exception.

First trip, salesman was all upbeat and "we'll fix this, we'll fix that". Second trip, we managed to piss him off, with our extensive inspection. On top of that, we came about =this= close to walking on the deal after he came up with the b.s. of "we're taking a huge hit on this trailer, you're going to have to compromise some on this". I let my wife do most of the talking, though I did comment that I knew that dealers were caught between customers desires and manufacturer's reality, but this comment really pissed =me= off. I literally asked him what the difference was, warranty-wise, between this '17 and an '18 that came in the week before; =both= should be treated equally. His comment, again, referenced their loss. Now, the dealership's OWNER gave me this price, so I don't know if it was the owner trying to back-step a bit or it was the salesman trying to do the back-stepping, but it nearly caused us to walk out. We =did= tell him we needed a few minutes, which he gave us. (Remember the list of fixes I mentioned above? I ended up emailing it from my phone to the owner. He printed it out with what they would and wouldn't fix. We agreed to it and signed it, separately.) Another thing that irritated me was that when we looked at this unit the first time, the disconnect was left on and the battery was flat. They grabbed a jumper box to get the wardrobe slide extended so we could check it out. They =knew= we were coming down on Saturday and did not either swap out the battery or even charge the one that was there. Then, when I mentioned about replacing the battery with a fresh one, they said that they'd charge the one there and load test it. Now, I don't know about y'all, but in my experience, when a 12v "marine" battery goes flat (too the point where lights won't even flicker), that' battery's toast. Again, the salesman pooh-poohing things, which really pissed me off, but I let it slide. I'll try using it and charging it on my own, but if the battery goes flat again, they'll be putting a new one in, that's for sure. I plan on installing 2 6v batteries at some point anyway, but I still need at least =one= good battery.

We went ahead with the deal, gave them =more= down (which we weren't told about ahead of time, as they knew =my= time frame on getting funding) and signed the final paperwork. So, given that AZ has no "cooling off" period, which we also had to sign to acknowledge, we owned a '17 KZ Durango 1500 277RLT, at that point. We go down on Thursday to make final payment, do the final PDI and pick it up.

Whew! And we're still married!

Lyle

[laknox]

Fireman286 wrote:
Laknox I have an 05 dmax. I have found that if you push and hold the tow/haul button for maybe 2 seconds it will shift to forth. I’m not sure if the 02 has this feature, I had one for 8 years and never had heard of this.

Really...? I'll have to give it a try. There's no info on any sort of "OD cutoff" feature anywhere in the manual or supplement that I could find. Even just standing on the gas, to the floor, it's hard to get it to downshift.

Lyle

[FF286]

Laknox I have an 05 dmax. I have found that if you push and hold the tow/haul button for maybe 2 seconds it will shift to forth. I’m not sure if the 02 has this feature, I had one for 8 years and never had heard of this.

[laknox]

Me Again wrote:

laknox wrote:


We are already planning a trip to Laughlin in January for a break-in run.

Lyle

Take the route through Kingman each direction and you can test out grade braking and hill climbing on Davis Dam Hill. At 10.5K GVWR for that trailer the Duramax should run up the hill pretty easy, and give you a good cooling system test. Lots of hills along the route to practice on before you get to Davis Dam Hill. Chris

My old Komfort, at 11,360 GVW, gave my old D'max all she wanted on the grades from PHX to Flagstaff, and in-between, numerous times. 🙂 The '02 just doesn't have the poop that the later ones do. Combine that with the absolutely =brilliant= decision not to allow the driver to manually select 4th (go from OD to 3rd on the column), and hills are a real adventure. I =need= to put a Tap Shift of some flavor on it, but have never done so.

Lyle

[laknox]

ChuckV1 wrote:
laknox

The DW an I have a Kz G384FLT an could not be happier, in every case we have asked Kz Customer Service they have helped us. We attended the Kz National rally last year in Indiana an they treated all the people at the rally like family, we saw things replaced in trailers like counter tops that has scrapes in them that had happened be accident from the owners not the builders. We saw stoves replaced because they had sticky valves, sconces replace because owners didn't like the colors.

We had a frig that went out on the last day of the rally, they kept calling till they got a repair person out to fix our frig, if it could not be repaired they were willing to store our food at the Kz factory or their home so we would not loose any food, they have went the extra mile for us as well as the other owners at the Kz rally 🙂

They told all the attendees at the rally that they were committed to the Kz brand an to the owners that owned their product. Other trailer company's may do the same thing but we have owned a slide-in, Class C, an a 5th wheel from another MFG an none an I mean none showed us the support that Kz showed us this past summer 🙂

Ther will be a Kz national Rally this coming summer starting the 6th of August, if you can attend you will become a believe like my DW an I, Kz is the real deal an they are committed to making a great product that you get the most bang for you hard errand bucks ...

Check out the Kz family form ( http://kzfamilyforum.com/ ) or their face book page ...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1497881047105248/

Safe travels

Thanks for the pep-talk, Chuck. I tend to be a bit cynical at times and I know that a =lot= of KZ owners, and potential owners, were very worried about the Thor buyout. Time will tell.

I signed up for the Family Forum 2 years ago, when I started looking. Same user name, too. :B

I'd love to attend the KZ rally, especially as my mom's a Hoosier and I still have lots of family back there. I have to ask, though... How big a shotgun do you need for the skeeters out there? I mean, August, in Indiana?! 🙂

Lyle

[Me_Again]

laknox wrote:


We are already planning a trip to Laughlin in January for a break-in run.

Lyle

Take the route through Kingman each direction and you can test out grade braking and hill climbing on Davis Dam Hill. At 10.5K GVWR for that trailer the Duramax should run up the hill pretty easy, and give you a good cooling system test. Lots of hills along the route to practice on before you get to Davis Dam Hill. Chris

[ChuckV1]

laknox

The DW an I have a Kz G384FLT an could not be happier, in every case we have asked Kz Customer Service they have helped us. We attended the Kz National rally last year in Indiana an they treated all the people at the rally like family, we saw things replaced in trailers like counter tops that has scrapes in them that had happened be accident from the owners not the builders. We saw stoves replaced because they had sticky valves, sconces replace because owners didn't like the colors.

We had a frig that went out on the last day of the rally, they kept calling till they got a repair person out to fix our frig, if it could not be repaired they were willing to store our food at the Kz factory or their home so we would not loose any food, they have went the extra mile for us as well as the other owners at the Kz rally 🙂

They told all the attendees at the rally that they were committed to the Kz brand an to the owners that owned their product. Other trailer company's may do the same thing but we have owned a slide-in, Class C, an a 5th wheel from another MFG an none an I mean none showed us the support that Kz showed us this past summer 🙂

Ther will be a Kz national Rally this coming summer starting the 6th of August, if you can attend you will become a believe like my DW an I, Kz is the real deal an they are committed to making a great product that you get the most bang for you hard errand bucks ...

Check out the Kz family form ( http://kzfamilyforum.com/ ) or their face book page ...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1497881047105248/

Safe travels

[laknox]

MFL wrote:
Congrats on your new FW purchase Lyle!! Getting it delivered, just the way you want can be a pita for sure. I think the KZ was a good choice, especially with the larger holding tanks, and more CCC. Dealers I've talked with, don't get their full labor rate pay from the manufacturer, so many try to get by with the least amount of warranty work. Sounds like you got a great price, so it makes a little compromise more acceptable.

Looked at your floor plan, and specs online. Looks like a nice shower, wish mine was like that! Easy access to the bedroom/bathroom while traveling, and hoping you can get to fridge with slides in. Looking at specs, should be a good fit for your truck too.

Don't forget the pics, when you get her home!

Jerry

Thanks, Jerry (and the rest). We are already planning a trip to Laughlin in January for a break-in run. I =think= the fridge will clear the peninsula when the slide's closed, but haven't had the chance to try it. NBD, if it does. DW really liked the shower, too. I was also concerned with the weight as my old FW, at 11,360 GVW, really maxed out my '02 D'max when running heavy.

Will get pics as soon as I can! :B

Lyle

[laknox]

2012Coleman wrote:
We toured 3 different Grand Design FW models over the weekend. Heat vents are not in the floor, huge pantry, excellent fit and finish. If not too late, you should check them out - and lose that salesman. Good luck.

If I could afford a truck as well as a FW, I'd certainly have looked at them. :B

Lyle

[laknox]

Nv Guy wrote:
Congratulations! Sounds like you covered most of the bases, as far as KZ denying a repair- unless you heard it from KZ, better than even odds the dealer is lying. They don't want to order a trim part and not have you come back for installation (you wont believe how many customers never follow up and return). Full disclosure- the DW and I took delivery of an '18 KZ Durango in June, aside from a minor plumbing leak and a few minor trim issues we are trouble free.

Glad to hear that! The Thor takeover really has me worried... Maybe this one was built soon enough after that "negative" changes hadn't yet fully filtered down to the line. Don't know the mfr date, as I simply forgot to look. I do know that the dealer has had it for 10+ months. I've spoken with both the KZ dealers here in AZ, as well as KZ's SW sales rep, and the Durango 1500's just don't sell well here, for some reason. I think there's too many young people with families and toys, so cheap TH's and big bunk houses are what sells. The old crowd want all the luxuries. Those of us who are in-betweeners (60's and still working), and don't want to tow the Titanic, seem to have many fewer choices in dealer stock.

Lyle

[MFL]

Congrats on your new FW purchase Lyle!! Getting it delivered, just the way you want can be a pita for sure. I think the KZ was a good choice, especially with the larger holding tanks, and more CCC. Dealers I've talked with, don't get their full labor rate pay from the manufacturer, so many try to get by with the least amount of warranty work. Sounds like you got a great price, so it makes a little compromise more acceptable.

Looked at your floor plan, and specs online. Looks like a nice shower, wish mine was like that! Easy access to the bedroom/bathroom while traveling, and hoping you can get to fridge with slides in. Looking at specs, should be a good fit for your truck too.

Don't forget the pics, when you get her home!

Jerry

[2012Coleman]

We toured 3 different Grand Design FW models over the weekend. Heat vents are not in the floor, huge pantry, excellent fit and finish. If not too late, you should check them out - and lose that salesman. Good luck.

[bucky]

The salesperson's demeanor changed when he found out that he wasn't making much of a commission on the deal. He's thinking "thanks Boss".
Sounds like a good fit for you guys, have fun with it.

[Nv_Guy]

Congratulations! Sounds like you covered most of the bases, as far as KZ denying a repair- unless you heard it from KZ, better than even odds the dealer is lying. They don't want to order a trim part and not have you come back for installation (you wont believe how many customers never follow up and return). Full disclosure- the DW and I took delivery of an '18 KZ Durango in June, aside from a minor plumbing leak and a few minor trim issues we are trouble free.

[DiskDoctr]

Congratulations!

Sounds like to did everything reasonable to reduce your risks and get your camper delivered the way you want it. Good job 🙂

Enjoy and be sure to share some pics when you get her home :C

[laknox]

Bumpyroad wrote:
just wait until you try to get service once they have your money.
bumpy

Why I was pushing so hard to get this agreed to =before= they had my signature on anything.

Lyle