Andersen Aluminum Ultimate Hitch Redesigned

[jerem0621]

I follow Andersen hitches on Facebook and they have announced a redesign of their Aluminum Ultimate Fifth Wheel Hitch...here are some screen shots of the Facebook post.





Thanks!

Jeremiah

[ramgunner]

I've also been accused of being a "basher" and that "you have never even seen one". Actually, I've held one in my hands, and had a chance to look over the mechanism up close. I've even seen what I was told was one of the new ones (last weekend).

I agree about the crush test. It shows that it can hold the pin weight, but does not show how well it can handle front/back stresses that will come up in a real-world situation like a panic stop.

Let's compare the B&W hitches for the Ford puck system and the RAM puck system.

The Ford system has less distance between the front and rear pucks. If you look at the required design of the hitch to support that setup, you can see how that may present an issue. The B&W RVK3300 is rated for 20000 pounds pulled and 5000 pounds VTW.

The RAM system has a much greater distance between the front and rear pucks. This allows for a design that's rated for 25,000 pounds pulled and 6250 pounds VTW.

I believe the head is identical between the two hitches, so it's all in the bases.

You can see that their engineers are taking into account the dynamic forces that may be involved in things like panic stops. When used within their rated weights, they have enough of a safety margin to handle the dynamic stresses that may come up.

In the case of the AU, I'm not convinced this was considered in the design and chosen materials. If there is one known case on-line, how many others have there been where the owner isn't on any popular forums? No one knows.

In the past, I've stated that I'd like to see them put their interface into a pin box and get it approved by the trailer and frame manufacturers and have it offered as a factory option.

I say that because, direct from Lippert, the AU will void the frame warranty. Yes, Andersen offers their own - read the fine print. Someone in a bind may see this fought over for years while they have a trailer that needs fixed. Likely to really damage the frame? I don't know, but I prefer to err on the side of caution.

If they can get this designed to where it lives up to the weight ratings, and can get it installed as an option at the factory, I think it could become a mainstream item. Until then, they are going to have issues.

[MFL]

To be a major player in the FW hitch market, a manufacturer has to be willing to step up, with a recall if warranted. If they are replacing hitches on request, that is a good thing. It may be hard to track down the hitches already in use. If I had one, I would want it replaced with a beefed up, safer model. I can't imagine any owner not wanting the same, if they knew of possible issues.

Andersen seems to be a forward moving business. I think they will do the right thing. Safety/liability, has to be a big issue in this industry!

Jerry

[Cummins12V98]

"In a fore-aft force situation, 2 legs will be placed in tension and the opposite 2 legs will be placed in compression."

I would agree if the 4 legs were on a solid platform and could not move but the fact is the Ultimate hitch does move fore and aft.

I am wondering if all they did was use the crush test to determine how they rated their hitch???

I do like that I have gone from being a "BASHER" to a "DETRACTOR" :B

[fj12ryder]

Seems to me that you can run all the tests in the lab, but what counts is what happens in the real world. And what happened in this case was not good.

I've yet to hear of problems with a B&W hitch deforming or having problems with operations while towing.

Yes, Anderson has yet to recall any hitches, which would be an admission that there is a problem with the old hitches. To do that could cause severe monetary and liability issues to the company. My understanding is that they are replacing hitches when requested, which is only one step from admitting an issue. IMO they should bite the bullet and replace all the light weight hitches since there are obviously some strength issues with it. Or maybe derate it to a 10,000 lb. or less hitch.

Personally, after seeing that hitch, I would think twice before towing my 15,000 lb. toyhauler with it.

[WTP-GC]

The detractors talk about the "crush test" being a non-real world demonstration. I would heartily disagree with such a notion. The structural support is derived from 4 legs that travel from the center point (of the load) to each corner in an angled orientation. When the hydraulic ram compresses the center point, it initially places all 4 legs in a combination of compression, tension and sheer. Once any single leg fails, it begins to deform, which immediately places the other 3 legs in more tension and sheer. Because this pressure is directly downward, the applied forces are greater.

If the legs were straight horizontal or vertical, then the crush test would be completely useless.

Transfer that thinking to a real-world application. In a fore-aft force situation, 2 legs will be placed in tension and the opposite 2 legs will be placed in compression. Where one set of legs of pushing, the other set is pulling. The sheer force is more limited in this scenario. With the crimped end design of the legs, this could mean the hitch may take more fore-aft pressure than what the crush test shows. Also, since the legs are angled, they're getting less variation in forces with fore-aft movement present.

A test of fore-aft pressures might not yield the same results of the crush test. Since no one knows the answer, nor are we privied to any calculations, we're just as well to consider that it may take more force just as easily as we should consider it to take less force. But I contend that the limiting factor in such a scenario will be the rail system or the gooseneck ball, or other sheer connections. My hitch clearly states a 24,000# limit and 4,500# tongue limit. If the engineers of this hitch are wrong, then Andersen stands the chance of being sued into oblivion.

Yes, Andersen has redesigned their hitches (typical product improvement), and they've yet to recall any previous generations nor issue any revised limitations. I'm inclined to listen to them more than internet forum contributions. Yes, some products will inherently break, fail, or otherwise be unsatisfactory. But no other hitch manufacturer (B & W, Reese, PullRite, etc.) can ever make the claim that 100% of their products are free of defect.

[SkiSmuggs]

I read the thread in the Cummins forum and the first thing that jumped out were there were no "told you so" comments, and right after is that folks who have the aluminum hitch and expressed concern were sent a new hitch.
I have the rail mount steel hitch and remain unconcerned. What does concern me is that someone asked about the Andersen Ultimate in the RV Clinic part of the new Trailer Life. The response was uninformed and misleading. They were told that the Andersen would require a gooseneck style agricultural or commercial ball mount that is an aftermarket item for the dealer to install. Then they said that the ride would be no different than a traditional fifth wheel hitch, and finally inquirer was told he might want to rethink not using grease.
It is apparent the author never even looked at the videos, and doesn't understand the movements made by a fifth wheel hitch.

[Searching_Ut]

I see a couple things in those photos that bother me. The gouges in the main support are something I was sure I would have by now if I went with the aluminum version, which is why I went steel instead. I'm hard on my equipment, and have a hard time figuring out how folks keep the beds of their trucks looking so nice. In addition to going with steel I sprayed liquid rubber on the main support tubes to keep things from leaving gouges.

Another issue I see is the way the safety chains are hooked up. I use the aft mounts to give more protection to keep the trailer behind me should I get hit from behind. They are still short enough the trailer should be kept riding on the bedrails should the trailer somehow come detached.

What I can't see in the photos is where the support tubes were bent when the tube locking the hitch to the ball bent. It looks like the base of the hitch slid forward a little bit but it's hard to tell, and it's even harder to tell how much the main support tubes bent or distorted by looking at the photos.

I saw a question regarding the steel version doing anything similar. I had to try and do an emergency stop with serious trailer brake issues due to problems with the RAM IBC and had no hitch issues. I've done a couple subsequent ones from 50 plus under more controlled situations to record pulse width modulation data to verify the issue is with truck. Virtually all braking was with the truck taken to antilock, no hitch issues but I'm still trying to resolve the controller issue with Chrysler.

As for hitch issues in general, At 4X4 Jamborees and club runs I've loaned my welding equipment out a couple times so folks could do repairs on 5er hitches, and even more often for bumper pull receiver issues. It tends to be a crowd that pushes their equipment hard. I had to replace the receiver on my 2011 Ram with less than 30k on the truck because it cracked beyond what I was comfortable welding and trying to beef up. The big issue is what happens if a major part of the hitch does fail. Looking over the provided photos of the Andersen it's hard to say if complete failure was getting close or not.

[BarneyS]

The next post that flames any member will result in this thread being closed. Please keep your remarks on the topic and not about members.
Thank you.
Barney

[Cummins12V98]

I have said MANY times I think the Andersen has it's place and that is 12-14K and under. I have said MANY times it is a quality constructed product. I have said MANY times I think they over rate their hitch. I have said MANY times their "CRUSH TEST" is a visual gimmick and means nothing in the real world where the stress is applied in the fore and aft directions. I have said MANY times I am not an engineer but I understand ratings can vary wildly from one mfg to another.

Pointing out the above is bashing I guess I am a BASHER!

[MFL]

I'm a little late, but here are my thoughts. I like the idea of bringing the ball to the hitch, rather than the goose neck to the ball. If the hitch was bent in a collision, understandable. To deform from braking, IMO, is not acceptable.

I know some are towing heavy with these hitches, and are happy. I do not have one, but if I did get one, I would choose the rail model, due to it just seeming to be more solid in the bed, again JMO.

I do not need or want an Andersen hitch, but I have actually promoted them to others with a specific need. They are light weight, so helpful, when payload is an issue. I think they will help with clearance issues for people with 6.5 bed.

Myself, I would not trust these early models, up to anywhere near what they are rated for, but that is just me. The engineers that design these things know more than me.

Jerry

[Cdash]

I tend to agree with the fact that this hitch needs to go through some maturity. I fail to see how the connection point can be moved back with no repercussions. Would you drive with a slider in to the slid poison full time?

What some here call "great customer service" in exchanging an older style hitch to a newer style hitch, I see it as lawsuit prevention. They know they have a problem and they are worried. I haven't liked this since day one, it's a neat sounding idea, but I just don't think all the homework was done with it.

[fj12ryder]

How many bent hitches have you seen that weren't caused by an accident? I think the point is that how many hitches have you seen that were damaged in everyday use? And yes, IMO, a panic stop is everyday use.

Also, this is a relatively new hitch so there aren't likely to be huge numbers of them in use yet. And to me, ONE instance of a hitch deforming under use is way too many.

[SabreCanuck]

Amazing how ONE bent hitch can cause so many conversations. Fact is the hitch did NOT allow the trailer to come through the cab, etc. etc. Perhaps the owner did NOT follow directions and push the hitch forward prior to tightening, etc. Don't know what I'm talking about? Then you haven't really done your homework.

I don't have one, don't need one but would buy one if I was shopping. Mainly because they seem to be a heck-of-a good company if all of the other positive posts are true.

How about this? Maybe the original poster of the 'bent' hitch actually photo-shopped the damage and made the whole story up to feed the nay-sayers? Different conspiracy theory, I know.. I must be bored.

None of us will really ever know the whole circumstance on the ONE hitch but everyone that has them seems pretty darn happy with them so who cares?

As for the "why the upgrade"?? Are we honestly going to sit hear and argue that the original must be BUNK because they had to create a new style? Really? You still driving your 1988 350 Chevy with crank windows or have you 'UPGRADED' to something with power windows? Of course there is a second generation. I would expect there will be a 3rd generation and so on. Technological advances.

Now, where's my popcorn.

[IdaD]

Anybody ever see any issues reported with the steel version of their hitches?

[fj12ryder]

Well, when the hitch bends like it did under only heavy braking, that does tend to make one think that the hitch is either not strong enough, or under-engineered. If a sudden stop would do that, what would happen in a full stop collision? Would the hitch completely fail and allow the trailer to come into the cab area?

Lots of people have complained about their non-Anderson hitch being hard to open, hard to close, noisy, too much clearance, etc. But this is the only hitch I've ever seen posted by someone, that wasn't involved in an accident, that is obviously damaged.

Even if the trailer brakes were faulty, IMO that hitch shouldn't have distorted like it did. I'm glad to hear that their replacing hitches with the new design. IMO they should recall all the old ones to be replaced.