Andersen Hitch

[Wingnusa]

Anyone out there have one of these? I could use some feedback on the Ultimate. I especially want to know how things ride inside the rig when you have this hitch...

[Me_Again]

glazier wrote:

jerem0621 wrote:
This Guy had his bed broke by the flex in his 18k Companion.

I am not crazy about the adaptor part of the Companion, Andersen, or the Bull Dog fifth wheel adaptor hitches...however, there are millions of miles and hundreds of thousands of users with these products.

You can even add the Curt X5 adaptor base rails to this bunch. These all distribute some weight to the bed floor.

I know they work, I don't think they are unsafe...at all... But the flex may damage some peoples bed to one degree or another...or it may not.


I don't hate the fifth wheel rails...if I were installing a fiver hitch...I would probably use the rails. They just seem more secure giving a firm wide base with four anchor points directly on the frame. My dad has the rails and I can't say the get in the way of using the bed. My best friend had rails in his last truck. I helped him load many things in and out of the bed. The rails never seemed to get in the way.

What I would probably do is install the fifth wheel rails and get a gooseneck plate for my rails if I ever needed to pull a gooseneck. I understand the desire for a "clean bed" but the reality is that most beds are not "clean" with or without the rails.

I know a man who owns a 2012 F250 XL and pulls a fiver.... He has fifth wheel rails...he also has a B&W turnover ball for his horse trailer...I kinda scratch my head on that one...I would do one or the other. $125 gooseneck plate for the rails would have solved the issue.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

The guy in the video stated he installed flat bar in the low part of the bed floor ( he had an older design). B&W provides a part that does just that on all Companion hitches now. With the flats of a bed supporting the weight directly over the bed channels, the Companion is a very strong secure hitch.

It still carries the pin weight load on the sheet metal bed floor. Not the truck's steel frame.

"STEP 3: INSTALL BASE
Note: If truck is equipped with a removable bed liner or mat. It should be removed or it must be cut to allow the base to directly connect with the bed. It is acceptable to install the RV base over a spray in bed liner.
Place the RV Base over the RV post so that the U-bolts wrap around the RV post. (PIC E) Then place a ½” washer (K) on the ½” x 3” draw-down bolt (D), insert the bolt through the hole in the top flange of the RV base and hand-thread the draw-down bolt into the RV Post. **NOTE: DO NOT lubricate the draw down bolt or U-bolts, the torque value is for dry threads. Square the RV base legs with the ribs of the truck bed and then tighten the ½” x 3” draw-down bolt to 40 ft-lb. Next, tighten the two u-bolts to 80 ft-lb. to secure the RV Base to the RV Post. It is very important that the draw-down bolt is tightened before the U-bolts are tightened. When the RV Base is installed correctly, the RV Post should have a ¼” to 1” gap between the RV Post and the RV Base where the draw-down bolt attaches.(PIC F) Also, you should not be able to disengage the latch pin in the wheel well when the base is installed correctly."

Note the part "RV Post should have a ¼” to 1” gap between the RV Post and the RV Base where the draw-down bolt attaches." The horizontal U-bolts are not for vertical load bearing, they are to prevent horizontal movement of the hitch.

http://www.turnoverball.com/sites/default/files/rvk3000_06_27_2013.pdf

Chris

[glazier]

jerem0621 wrote:
This Guy had his bed broke by the flex in his 18k Companion.

I am not crazy about the adaptor part of the Companion, Andersen, or the Bull Dog fifth wheel adaptor hitches...however, there are millions of miles and hundreds of thousands of users with these products.

You can even add the Curt X5 adaptor base rails to this bunch. These all distribute some weight to the bed floor.

I know they work, I don't think they are unsafe...at all... But the flex may damage some peoples bed to one degree or another...or it may not.

I don't hate the fifth wheel rails...if I were installing a fiver hitch...I would probably use the rails. They just seem more secure giving a firm wide base with four anchor points directly on the frame. My dad has the rails and I can't say the get in the way of using the bed. My best friend had rails in his last truck. I helped him load many things in and out of the bed. The rails never seemed to get in the way.

What I would probably do is install the fifth wheel rails and get a gooseneck plate for my rails if I ever needed to pull a gooseneck. I understand the desire for a "clean bed" but the reality is that most beds are not "clean" with or without the rails.

I know a man who owns a 2012 F250 XL and pulls a fiver.... He has fifth wheel rails...he also has a B&W turnover ball for his horse trailer...I kinda scratch my head on that one...I would do one or the other. $125 gooseneck plate for the rails would have solved the issue.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

The guy in the video stated he installed flat bar in the low part of the bed floor ( he had an older design). B&W provides a part that does just that on all Companion hitches now. With the flats of a bed supporting the weight directly over the bed channels, the Companion is a very strong secure hitch.

[rhagfo]

Me Again wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

Me Again wrote:
Anderson really hedges on the requirement for safety chains! I would get tired along with my front jacks with the extra lifting to couple or uncouple it. Trailer has to be lifted and extra 3 or 4"!

I would like to see one after a wreck? Compress test is testing it in a single direction at it's strongest point.

Like the B&W Companion I am not convinced placing hitch loads on sheet metal beds is the best long term design!

Traditional 5th wheel hitches when correctly installed put the load on the frame rails.

If I get a new RAM it will have factory prep and a four puck hitch that locks onto the frame.

Chris

Me Again, could not agree with you more!! I believe that both B&W and Anderson have had issues with bending the bed floor.

Sorry, but for all the bad press, I am convinced that my Reese 16K twin jaw hitch is a great hitch. That especially when I have towed my fiver over 30 miles, with the locking latch in the unlocked position!

Solidly connected to the frame at four locations!!

Sorry Cummins9812V, I may someday think about the rail mounted Patriot, but not one that depends on the sheet metal bed floor.

Well, Russ there are a lot of koolaiders that think the turnover ball is carrying the weight. If you read the Anderson reply, like the safety chains they did not really answer my question. So keep the 5th wheel on the lighter side to protect your bed.

Chris

Well I have read the instructions for installing the B&W. They state to tighten the bolt that goes in the ball adapter to 40 ft. lbs., so you already have pressure on the bed. The "U" boldt get tightened to 80 ft. lbs, and this is to support the weight, but it is only a single point, the hitch assemble still moves forward and back, pivots on that single point.

[jerem0621]

This Guy had his bed broke by the flex in his 18k Companion.

I am not crazy about the adaptor part of the Companion, Andersen, or the Bull Dog fifth wheel adaptor hitches...however, there are millions of miles and hundreds of thousands of users with these products.

You can even add the Curt X5 adaptor base rails to this bunch. These all distribute some weight to the bed floor.

I know they work, I don't think they are unsafe...at all... But the flex may damage some peoples bed to one degree or another...or it may not.

I don't hate the fifth wheel rails...if I were installing a fiver hitch...I would probably use the rails. They just seem more secure giving a firm wide base with four anchor points directly on the frame. My dad has the rails and I can't say the get in the way of using the bed. My best friend had rails in his last truck. I helped him load many things in and out of the bed. The rails never seemed to get in the way.

What I would probably do is install the fifth wheel rails and get a gooseneck plate for my rails if I ever needed to pull a gooseneck. I understand the desire for a "clean bed" but the reality is that most beds are not "clean" with or without the rails.

I know a man who owns a 2012 F250 XL and pulls a fiver.... He has fifth wheel rails...he also has a B&W turnover ball for his horse trailer...I kinda scratch my head on that one...I would do one or the other. $125 gooseneck plate for the rails would have solved the issue.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[Me_Again]

rhagfo wrote:

Me Again wrote:
Anderson really hedges on the requirement for safety chains! I would get tired along with my front jacks with the extra lifting to couple or uncouple it. Trailer has to be lifted and extra 3 or 4"!

I would like to see one after a wreck? Compress test is testing it in a single direction at it's strongest point.

Like the B&W Companion I am not convinced placing hitch loads on sheet metal beds is the best long term design!

Traditional 5th wheel hitches when correctly installed put the load on the frame rails.

If I get a new RAM it will have factory prep and a four puck hitch that locks onto the frame.

Chris

Me Again, could not agree with you more!! I believe that both B&W and Anderson have had issues with bending the bed floor.

Sorry, but for all the bad press, I am convinced that my Reese 16K twin jaw hitch is a great hitch. That especially when I have towed my fiver over 30 miles, with the locking latch in the unlocked position!

Solidly connected to the frame at four locations!!

Sorry Cummins9812V, I may someday think about the rail mounted Patriot, but not one that depends on the sheet metal bed floor.

Well, Russ there are a lot of koolaiders that think the turnover ball is carrying the weight. If you read the Anderson reply, like the safety chains they did not really answer my question. So keep the 5th wheel on the lighter side to protect your bed.

Chris

[fj12ryder]

rhagfo wrote:

Me Again wrote:
Anderson really hedges on the requirement for safety chains! I would get tired along with my front jacks with the extra lifting to couple or uncouple it. Trailer has to be lifted and extra 3 or 4"!

I would like to see one after a wreck? Compress test is testing it in a single direction at it's strongest point.

Like the B&W Companion I am not convinced placing hitch loads on sheet metal beds is the best long term design!

Traditional 5th wheel hitches when correctly installed put the load on the frame rails.

If I get a new RAM it will have factory prep and a four puck hitch that locks onto the frame.

Chris

Me Again, could not agree with you more!! I believe that both B&W and Anderson have had issues with bending the bed floor.

Sorry, but for all the bad press, I am convinced that my Reese 16K twin jaw hitch is a great hitch. That especially when I have towed my fiver over 30 miles, with the locking latch in the unlocked position!

Solidly connected to the frame at four locations!!

Sorry Cummins9812V, I may someday think about the rail mounted Patriot, but not one that depends on the sheet metal bed floor.

Yeah, I don't blame you, I sure would not rely on anything that uses the bed as support. Which is why I have the B&W Companion hitch.

[fj12ryder]

Me Again wrote:

fj12ryder wrote:
Probably not an issue because the weight of the 5th wheel is not carried on the bed. Most of the weight is transferred through the pin to the frame members.

If you're were carrying the full weight of a large, heavy 5th wheel in the bed only, you'd have some serious denting issues, not to mention probable failure of the bed in several places.

Guess what that is how a B&W Companion and Anderson hitch works, the pin weight is on the floor of the bed not the turnover ball. Some of you need to go back to school!

Watch this video. The pin goes under the shoulder of the gooseneck ball, and then the bolt is tighten, pulling the high down the the bed floor. If it gets compress enough the pin will just move away from the shoulder of the ball. Very simple process with nothing to transfer downward weight to the ball. B&W works in a similar fashon.

http://www.andersenhitches.com/Catalog/ultimate-5th-wheel-connection.aspx

Chris

Have you ever even seen a B&W hitch in operation?

But yeah, you're right, sure enough, right as rain. Nah, not really.

[rhagfo]

Me Again wrote:
Anderson really hedges on the requirement for safety chains! I would get tired along with my front jacks with the extra lifting to couple or uncouple it. Trailer has to be lifted and extra 3 or 4"!

I would like to see one after a wreck? Compress test is testing it in a single direction at it's strongest point.

Like the B&W Companion I am not convinced placing hitch loads on sheet metal beds is the best long term design!

Traditional 5th wheel hitches when correctly installed put the load on the frame rails.

If I get a new RAM it will have factory prep and a four puck hitch that locks onto the frame.

Chris

Me Again, could not agree with you more!! I believe that both B&W and Anderson have had issues with bending the bed floor.

Sorry, but for all the bad press, I am convinced that my Reese 16K twin jaw hitch is a great hitch. That especially when I have towed my fiver over 30 miles, with the locking latch in the unlocked position!

Solidly connected to the frame at four locations!!

Sorry Cummins9812V, I may someday think about the rail mounted Patriot, but not one that depends on the sheet metal bed floor.

[Me_Again]

fj12ryder wrote:
Probably not an issue because the weight of the 5th wheel is not carried on the bed. Most of the weight is transferred through the pin to the frame members.

If you're were carrying the full weight of a large, heavy 5th wheel in the bed only, you'd have some serious denting issues, not to mention probable failure of the bed in several places.

Guess what that is how a B&W Companion and Anderson hitch works, the pin weight is on the floor of the bed not the turnover ball. Some of you need to go back to school!

Watch this video. The pin goes under the shoulder of the gooseneck ball, and then the bolt is tighten, pulling the high down the the bed floor. If it gets compress enough the pin will just move away from the shoulder of the ball. Very simple process with nothing to transfer downward weight to the ball. B&W works in a similar fashon.

http://www.andersenhitches.com/Catalog/ultimate-5th-wheel-connection.aspx

Chris

[fj12ryder]

Probably not an issue because the weight of the 5th wheel is not carried on the bed. Most of the weight is transferred through the pin to the frame members.

If you're were carrying the full weight of a large, heavy 5th wheel in the bed only, you'd have some serious denting issues, not to mention probable failure of the bed in several places.

[Me_Again]

I received this reply from Anderson.

"Chris,

Thank you for contacting us in regards to our Ultimate Fifth Wheel Connection Hitch. We are having great success with this hitch selling several hundred every month to satisfied customers. We have had about 5 issues where there was some small dimpling in the rear corners on each side where the bed of the truck dimpled almost an 1/8". We are still trying to determine in these circumstances all the issues and the one thing they all had in common were very heavy RVs and the hitch just lined up with the corrugated in the bed of the truck to be barely on the outer most parts of the hitch. If I was worried about the paint scratching or small dimpling of the bed I would have either a bed liner, bed mat or a rubber pad placed under the hitch.

Keep us posted if you need more information.

Thanks.

On 2014-08-23 11:33, xxxxx@gmail.com wrote:
> Is appears the pin weight of a fifth wheel is carried on the pickup
> bed floor and not directly onto the trucks frame. Has this caused any
> issues with pickup beds, such as dents or damage to hat cross members
> under the bed?
>
> -- Chris "

[Me_Again]

jus2shy wrote:
I agree with Me Again in the theory of how these gooseneck mounted hitches work in the bed of a truck. That's also the reason why B&W does not advise using the Reese "Sidewinder" with their gooseneck-based 5th wheel hitching system. However, there's no caution for the hitches that utilize the rails or the OEM "Puck" mounting systems. It's just too much torsional force on the goose neck shank when presented with the additional leverage arm of the sidewinder and certain conditions could lighten the hitch from the bed causing excessive twisting and not enough clamp load to keep the hitch oriented correctly. For every force, there's an equal and opposite force. So as you pull up the slack from the gooseneck ball which is being pulled-up from the truck, the hitch (B&W or Andersen) is pushing down onto the truck's bed which is building a clamping force. So the square gooseneck shank coupled with the friction of the hitch base and bed are what prevents it from spinning.

There is only 1 concern I have with the Andersen vs. the B&W Companion. B&W added extra material on their companion hitch to take into account the bed ribs (for lack of a better term), so it doesn't flatten the higher standing portions of the bed with the lower portions. The Andersen doesn't seem to take that into account. I would be concerned over slowly flattening the bed with a loaded hitch. Has Andersen addressed this possible issue?

Also, I'm thinking about adding the Ram's "Puck" system to my truck since it can be retrofitted. Seems like this would open me up to using the sidewinder hitching system which I think would be a home run since that would give me a full 90* turning radius regardless of the trailer nose. Still weighing my options personally.

And in case people don't believe me regarding the tortional force, here it is straight from the horse's mouth.

And in case other RAM owners are curious, appears that the mopar part number for an after-the-fact 5th wheel prep install is 82213665AB.

B&W added those strips to help keep the hitch from turning on the truck bed. Cummins12V98 knows all about that! The Anderson ball most likely does not create as much turning force on the hitch base.

My four major issues with Anderson beyond possible bed damage are:

1. Safety Chains
2. Having to raise the trailer the extra 3-4" to couple or uncouple
3. No one else can easily rescue your trailer off the road, including wrecker companies without removing the Anderson coupler!
4. Some dealers have no way to move your trailer.

Chris

[jus2shy]

I agree with Me Again in the theory of how these gooseneck mounted hitches work in the bed of a truck. That's also the reason why B&W does not advise using the Reese "Sidewinder" with their gooseneck-based 5th wheel hitching system. However, there's no caution for the hitches that utilize the rails or the OEM "Puck" mounting systems. It's just too much torsional force on the goose neck shank when presented with the additional leverage arm of the sidewinder and certain conditions could lighten the hitch from the bed causing excessive twisting and not enough clamp load to keep the hitch oriented correctly. For every force, there's an equal and opposite force. So as you pull up the slack from the gooseneck ball which is being pulled-up from the truck, the hitch (B&W or Andersen) is pushing down onto the truck's bed which is building a clamping force. So the square gooseneck shank coupled with the friction of the hitch base and bed are what prevents it from spinning.

There is only 1 concern I have with the Andersen vs. the B&W Companion. B&W added extra material on their companion hitch to take into account the bed ribs (for lack of a better term), so it doesn't flatten the higher standing portions of the bed with the lower portions. The Andersen doesn't seem to take that into account. I would be concerned over slowly flattening the bed with a loaded hitch. Has Andersen addressed this possible issue?

Also, I'm thinking about adding the Ram's "Puck" system to my truck since it can be retrofitted. Seems like this would open me up to using the sidewinder hitching system which I think would be a home run since that would give me a full 90* turning radius regardless of the trailer nose. Still weighing my options personally.

And in case people don't believe me regarding the tortional force, here it is straight from the horse's mouth.

And in case other RAM owners are curious, appears that the mopar part number for an after-the-fact 5th wheel prep install is 82213665AB.

[Riddler6_7]

stewks wrote:
I was able to rotate the Andersen hitch around to get the best clearance (about like a no slide hitch).

Just curious if you have called and asked andersen about turning the base around as i know at least my hitch has a sticker on it that indicates which way to have it facing. I really would like to turn it around to move the weight forward a little more, but just not sure if they decided to put the sticker on there for safety reasons or not.

[stewks]

I recently purchased a new to me fifth wheel, new Dodge Ram and an Andersen ultimate hitch to go on top of the B&W ball. I considered a B&W slider but chose Andersen based upon reviews, fore and aft adjustability, and ease of removal. I'm really happy so far, the slider would have been no use because of tailgate and pinbox clearance. I was able to rotate the Andersen hitch around to get the best clearance (about like a no slide hitch). Two trips so far and no chucking, easy hookup viewing hitch and pinbox from seat. To specifically answer the ops question, I had a can of wd-40 in a cupboard at the back of the fifth wheel in a rear kitchen 5er and my wife commented that it and all the other cans and stuff had not moved or tipped over in the travel 2 hours away. They were very loosely packed and certainly could have with any significant movement. I did have one defective part on the new Hitch but they were very responsive when called and overnighted a corrected part so I could continue with weekend plans. For the price, ease of removal, and weight penalty I think this is a great choice. As for moving another fifth wheel, 10 minutes or less would swap the connector, or $169 buy another spare. You will still have a lot in the bank vs the slider.