Andersen Ultimate with Lippert 1621 HD Pin Box

[Searching_Ut]

Folks, I'd ask in this post that everyone please stick to factual, technical information type responses if any, and avoid emotional responses, or the personal attacks which often seem to become the case in discussions about the Andersen Ultimate hitch.

As I posted earlier, in a post the moderator had to rightfully lock, the Pin box base plate on my 2016 Bighorn fifth wheel was bent by the set screws on the Kingpin adapter for my Andersen Ultimate hitch. I posted photos in that post. I had addressed the issue with my dealer, and they said "that happens with that hitch", and said it wasn't an issue they would address claiming Andersen said it was not a problem. I had difficulty accepting this second hand information and went to Andersen for their response, evidently initially having e-mail issues in getting their response, which follows:

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"Here's the response I sent previously. Also I spoke to my technical support again today and they are going to go ahead and send that spacer out so, you should see that within a couple days. Just be careful not to put it over any of the set screws. I apologize for the inconvenience.

Lippert used a thinner material to make the pin box is made out of on this particular model, and that has allowed this type of bending. You can put a spacer in and tighten it up. If you'd like we can send you a spacer. This will increase surface area around the pinbox to prevent that from happening any more.
As far as the intentations in the truck bed, can you please send some pictures of both the bed & base? If you're using the older style Ultimate, we can swap it out for newer base as we did have a few problems with that.
Thanks for your help. Have a great afternoon"

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The pin box in question is a Lippert, model LIPP1621 HD, GVRW 18,000 lbs. and it is installed on a fifth wheel with a dry weight of 12,084lbs, dry pin weight approximately 2500lbs, GVWR of 15,500 My understaning is that this is one of the most common pin boxes currently being put on Lippert frames, so if you're using an Andersen Ultimate on a newer fifth wheel trailer with a Lippert 1621 pin box you might want to keep an eye on it and contact Andersen for spacers if you start having problems.

Again, I'd like to request this posting stay informational, factual, or at least keep opinions on the design of a technical nature, avoiding personal attacks, or emotional responses. For once I'd like to see an Andersen Hitch posting not become a burden on the moderators.

[Searching_Ut]

When I have access to a computor I'll post photos but a fifth wheels weight is carried by the fat base of the pin box riding on the flat portion of the hitch. I don't think there are any oem pin boxes with a raised round base. With the andersen hitch adapter none of the vertical load is carried by the pin. The pin weight is all carried by two of the set screws which ride directly on the pin box base plate.

[WTP-GC]

Me Again wrote:
There are thousand and thousand of Lippert 1621 pin boxes being used with conventional 5th wheel hitches for years without issues. Use it as not intended at your own peril. Pretty basic concept folks. Chris

But in contrast...
There are thousand and thousand of Lippert pin boxes being used with Andersen Ultimate hitches without issues.

This is not an endorsement of a product, but moreover a logical route of believing that the OP had some sort of extenuating circumstance.

Anyone can buy a new weld-on kingpin assembly. It looks like this:

If this event was happening to me, since the pinbox is already junk, I would want to do some destructive testing to find out what's going on inside the head of the pinbox. Cut it open and find out. First thing I would do is look to see if the kingpin looks at least similar to the picture. I think by reading the OP's description, one would think that the entire pin weight is spread across the flat 1/4" plate, but in actuality, the weight is placed upon the large upper round area of the kingpin assembly. If the 2 set screws truly transfer all the weight, then it transfers directly to the kingpin. Therefore, all things being equal, the pressures exerted on the pinbox should be fairly similar between the Andersen UH adapter and a conventional 5er hitch. However, if the steel plate is weak, if the kingpin isn't properly welded, if the kingpin isn't as shown in the picture, if if if...

Again, I'd want to cut it open and find out.

[Cummins12V98]

Me Again wrote:
There are thousand and thousand of Lippert 1621 pin boxes being used with conventional 5th wheel hitches for years without issues. Use it as not intended at your own peril. Pretty basic concept folks. Chris

YEP, concentrated load on something that was NOT designed to be used that way can lead to failure as we now have seen. There is always cause and effect with any "NEW" idea!

NO I am NOT "BASHING".

[Me_Again]

There are thousand and thousand of Lippert 1621 pin boxes being used with conventional 5th wheel hitches for years without issues. Use it as not intended at your own peril. Pretty basic concept folks. Chris

[Searching_Ut]

For those recommending replacement of the pin box, I should have mentioned it in this post, but I replaced the pin box a few weeks back with a fifth airborne, 21k hitch. Interestingly, if you measure the thickness of the steel in the base plate it's exactly the same. With my calipers, and without removing paint they both come in at .23 to .24 inches of mild steel. Width of the base plate 12 inches. I replaced the pin box because I had another longer road trip coming up, and had concerns to where I felt it better to replace it that risk complete failure. At the same time, I bought a new hitch.

Regarding bed flex, no that issue isn't resolved with the Andersen Ultimate. If you watch the hitch base while backing up in soft sand/gravel, or other situations where it takes a fair amount of power to get things moving you get some bed deflection. I'm not sure if it's enough to cause problems though. The part where I was asking about the bed deflection/denting, indents in the bed or spray in bed liner were things I was looking into while trying to identify an occasional pop I would sometimes get out of the hitch. By the time of the above response, I had already been able to duplicate the pop while watching the hitch and it was cause by a 1/8 inch of so slip of the base on the truck bed that would happen with a pop, or jump if you will. Probably a result of the spray in bedliner being worn smooth, and having hardened where the hitch mounts. To secure the Utlimate base you install the hitch, put the weight of the trailer on it and tighten the top tube bolt down to 50ft lbs.

Finally, as to how the ball adapter works for those who don't have this hitch, you slide two mount bolts through the side of the adapter, then tighten 4 set screws to push the adapter away from pin box base plate until the two mount bolts are preventing further downward travel because of the lip at the bottom of the narrow portion of the kingpin (Using a torque wrench again). The 4 set screws surround the pin with the two set screws between the pin and the hitch ball forming a leverage point to where all of the pin weight is carried on the ends of these two set screws. The pin box of course was designed to carry the pin weight over a much wider areas, in this case the area of approximately that of a 10 inch disk.

As for the comments about the pin box being ****, I would have to agree it's minimal at best, designed to be as light and Cheap as possible. Couple that with a minimally designed and built hitch and things are likely to go wrong, which they unfortunately did in my case. Fortunately, I think the replacement components will work out better for me long term as the hitch in particular appears way over built if anything, and the suspension in the pin box should help soak up road shock and possibly help in extending the life of my equipment.

[WTP-GC]

tinner12002 wrote:
Well the way I understand how the Andersen hitch is made is that instead of carrying the weight on the whole flat bottom of the pin box, your now carrying it at only the locations of the set screws against the pin box...

If the adapter is installed correctly, the weight is transferred both through the set screws and longitudinally on the king pin. How much of the weight is placed where? Well, that's anyone's guess. In the OP's original post, everything was pretty well warped in that area. I'm with the crowd that thinks the pin box was junk.

Lippert makes some fine products, and some that are just garbage. But RV consumers as a whole keep buying over-priced junk, so that's what we keep getting.

[Housted]

I am using the original AU hitch with a 5th Airborne pin box and have had no issues at all after about 15000 miles. I did however bolt the block in place with 4 3/8" grade 8 bolts rather than use the set screws. I checked with Andersen before doing it and was told OK. I have since used the hitch on 2 other 5ers with only the set screws and have had no problems with either. YMMV
Housted

[tinner12002]

Well the way I understand how the Andersen hitch is made is that instead of carrying the weight on the whole flat bottom of the pin box, your now carrying it at only the locations of the set screws against the pin box so in an application like that I guess it could bend the bottom of the pin box. Yes the pin is doing the pulling but the flat is holding the weight on a standard 5ver hitch spread out over the total top of the 5ver. So once those set screws cause a deflection in the flat on the pin box the metal will warp...common sense to me but hadn't thought of it that way until I read OPs post. The spacer will work as it is totally separate from the pin box and still spreading the weight out across the bottom of pin box and providing the material to take up space between the Andersen adapter and the pin box. As long as the bottom of the pin box is flat, the pull on the pin is in a horizontal plain, once the bottom warped your no longer pulling on a horizontal plain. I would replace the existing pin box though. Oh and thought I'd better say that I'm not defending Lippert as I know a lot of their stuff is possibly under par but I do kinda understand metal stess.

[cummins2014]

jerem0621 wrote:
I'm not satisfied that the pin box the OP had would not have deflected with a standard Fifth wheel hitch either. It seems very weakly built.

Maybe not for the entire model but for that particular Pin Box...seems really weak.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

Well there is a lot of difference between sitting on that Andersen adapter, and sitting flat on a conventional fifth wheel hitch . The weight is distributed over a much larger area on a conventional hitch rather then that small area on the Andersen. IMO thats the whole issue with the Andersen in his case ,weight distribution.

[jerem0621]

I'm not satisfied that the pin box the OP had would not have deflected with a standard Fifth wheel hitch either. It seems very weakly built.

Maybe not for the entire model but for that particular Pin Box...seems really weak.

Thanks!

Jeremiah

[cummins2014]

BB_TX wrote:

csamayfield55 wrote:
...........
So it turns out the whole issue with this was another JUNK product put out by Lippart!!

The problem is that the pin box is being used in a manner for which it was not designed.

I would replace the damaged pin box. The metal fatigue already evident will not be solved by a spacer.

While that is true, why not just contact Andersen get the spacer ,and be done with it . If you own that pin box why wait until damage. I would want to prevent the damage if I knew the issue with that pin box, and the Andersen.

[BB_TX]

csamayfield55 wrote:
...........
So it turns out the whole issue with this was another JUNK product put out by Lippart!!

The problem is that the pin box is being used in a manner for which it was not designed.

I would replace the damaged pin box. The metal fatigue already evident will not be solved by a spacer.

[csamayfield55x]

hbillsmith wrote:
Running with the mor-Ryde 1621 and no pinbox issues. Switched to the newest Ultimate to get the funnel optioned adapter and no issues there either. Approximately 12000 miles towed.

The Mor-Ride has a base plate that is about double the thickness as a normal pinbox. My FIL has t hat pinbox on his Starcraft with the Andersen and after a couple thousand miles you can barely see the marks on the baseplate from the setscrews.

So it turns out the whole issue with this was another JUNK product put out by Lippart!!

Chris

[ralphnjoann]

Searching_Ut wrote:
As far as the intentations in the truck bed, can you please send some pictures of both the bed & base? If you're using the older style Ultimate, we can swap it out for newer base as we did have a few problems with that.

Does this mean that Andersen has solved the bed deflection problem that is often discussed?

[hbillsmith]

Running with the mor-Ryde 1621 and no pinbox issues. Switched to the newest Ultimate to get the funnel optioned adapter and no issues there either. Approximately 12000 miles towed.