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Blue Flame vs Infrared

MandMkuzie
Explorer
Explorer
I am adding a heater to our home to have in addition to the furnace. I am looking at the thermablaster 10,000 Btu wall mount. Since we are hearing 440sf this should be enough... I think.

I am debating between the blue flame vs infrared, but leaning toward blue flame.

Any suggestions or experiences?
30 REPLIES 30

alboy
Explorer
Explorer
Just a possible option for you.We started having a problem with our 8 yr old suburban 30000 btu furnace.I was never happy with the output plus very noisy.Installed a new 40000 btu whisper quiet unit that fit right in.Cost was 1200 $$ can.That is what should have been put in to start with,worth every penny.Very quiet and fast to heat.

Sam_Spade
Explorer
Explorer
MandMkuzie wrote:
Yes we have a furnace, but after reading about their lack of efficiency I want to have something better. I am planning to install the wall heater near a window because of the venting issue.


I don't think you have thought this through all the way.

If you vent properly to prevent moisture and CO buildup, I think you might very well end up with LESS gas efficiency than the furnace will provide you.

And you will have expended a LOT of time and money to accomplish little or nothing.

If you are going to cut into a wall, you could install a vented unit with a fan. But that would be roughly equivalent to the "furnace" that you already have.

I think you are putting WAY too much stock in those people who complain about the lack of efficiency with their stock furnace......and a perceived ability to fix the problem.
'07 Damon Outlaw 3611
CanAm Spyder in the "trunk"

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Hi Richard,

As O2 levels drop Catalytic heaters DO produce CO and unlike a blue flame do not self extinguish.

It is not safe to use an unvented combustion heater.

richardcoxid wrote:


Catalytic heater- Olympic Wave 3 (3,000BTU max), Wave 6 (6,000BTU max), Wave 8 (8,000BTU max) and others, Radiant Heater.

No open blue flame, however during operation the "pad" is orange hot! DOES NOT PRODUCE CO however to support the catalytic action they DO consume O2, 99% plus heat efficient. A small open flame is used only when starting the catalytic action. They will also KILL you (from lack of O2) if not vented properly (see above about cracked open windows) Dust is the worst enemy of the Platinum pad, keep covered when not in use.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

richardcoxid
Explorer
Explorer
The natural state of everything is cold, the natural flow of heat is from hot to cold. I.e. Without the sun this old earth would be a frozen mass of ice and stuff spinning around in space.

There are three primary methods of heat transfer- Radiation, Conduction and Convection.

Radiation- This is how the Sun warms the earth. On a sunny winter day when your Cat hops up onto a windowsill or your Dog lays on the carpet and follows the warm spot created by the Sun this is Radiation. I.e. Radiation warms objects. This is why when you stand if front of a Radiant heater (campfire) you immediately feel hot on your front while your back is still cold.

Conduction- Physical contact or transfer of heat thru an object. I re-learned just the other day when I accidentally touched the exhaust manifold of my wife's car with the back of my hand that exhaust manifolds are HOT!

Convection- Cold is more dense and falls, Hot is less dense and rises. Normally heat radiators
and forced air heat ducts in your house are placed next to the outside walls under or next to Windows and Doors. (thermostats are placed on a inside wall) Not always true on your RV, because of floor plans, cabinets, below floor level holding tanks, frame members etc. it is almost impossible.

If you look at it objectively there is normally more than one method of heat transfer involved at the same time.

Now about space heaters-

120VAC Electric- This includes Hot Air (Convection), Cube/Ceramic/Hot Oil- (Convection and Radiant) etc.

No matter what kind of heater, if the power cord has the standard residential two parallel flat prongs with a grounding pin it is a MAXIMUM of 15 Amps. Go to your local Hardware store and look at their electrical receptacles and compare their pin configuration/voltage/amperage rating

Now we have to complicate things a little-
Volts (V)- pressure, Amps (A)- volume, flow, and Watts (W)- total power consumed. V x A= W (think of water flow thru a 1" dia. pipe vs a 2" dia. pipe)
Small portable space heaters are limited to 1500W or 12.5A.
This is true even with the just discovered "plug in space heater that will heat your whole house for just pennies a day!" This is nothing more than VERY expensive ($200.00 to $300.00) Radiant 1500W heater enclosed in a particle board box! Remember if it plugs in your house receptacle IT IS 1500W Max! You can go to HD/Lowes and get their $29 Hot Air Electric Heater and get the same amount of heat for a lot less money!

Now, how much heat is 1500W? We have to complicate things a little more.

The standard measurement of heat is the BTU (British Thermal Unit) defined as "that quantity of heat that will change the temperature of one pound of water one degree Fahrenheit" My handy dandy little conversion reference book states that W (watts) times 3.41214 equals BTU. So 1500W times 3.41214 equals 5118.1BTU. So finally we are talking about something that we can all understand- A small 1500W electric space heater produces a little more than 5,000BTU of heat. As a comparison the Propane forced air furnace in my RV is 40,000 BTU and the furnace in my house is 106,000 BTU.

Now to talk a little about "Blue Flame/Catalytic Heaters

Blue Flame Heater- Radiant/Convection, Non-vented (maybe some can be vented to the out side, I don't know) open flame space heater often times with a metal/ceramic element to enhance the Radiant Heat effect. I have heard of "dry campers" putting a Terre Cotta flower pot over a range burner with about the same results! (I think that the small burners on a standard RV 3 burner stove is about 5,000-6,000 BTU while the single big burner is about 9,000 BTU) BOTH METHODS PRODUCE CO (carbon monoxide- colorless, odorless, tasteless gas) and they consume O2 (Oxygen) BOTH WILL KILL YOU IF NOT VENTED PROPERLY!, I.e. A low window cracked open at one end of your RV and a high window cracked open at the other end! (remember convection heat transfer) Disclaimer- Use at your own risk! Not recommend for RV non vented use!

Catalytic heater- Olympic Wave 3 (3,000BTU max), Wave 6 (6,000BTU max), Wave 8 (8,000BTU max) and others, Radiant Heater.

No open blue flame, however during operation the "pad" is orange hot! DOES NOT PRODUCE CO however to support the catalytic action they DO consume O2, 99% plus heat efficient. A small open flame is used only when starting the catalytic action. They will also KILL you (from lack of O2) if not vented properly (see above about cracked open windows) Dust is the worst enemy of the Platinum pad, keep covered when not in use.

Go on line and read the operating instructions/warnings for ANY open blue flame/catalytic space heater!

We spend about 2 months.every winter boondocking (BLM land along the Colorado River) using a Wave 6 (6,000 BTU Catalytic Htr).
2017 GMC Denali 3500 4x4 Duramax
2019 Outdoor RV (ORV) Timber Ridge 24RKS

MandMkuzie
Explorer
Explorer
Yes we have a furnace, but after reading about their lack of efficiency I want to have something better. I am planning to install the wall heater near a window because of the venting issue. It will also be going in the middle of the 5er and I plan to use fans to circulate the air to both bedrooms.. this is why I was leaning toward the blue flame.

MandMkuzie
Explorer
Explorer
Yes we have a furnace, but after reading about their lack of efficiency I want to have something better. I am planning to install the wall heater near a window because of the venting issue. It will also be going in the middle of the 5er and I plan to use fans to circulate the air to both bedrooms.. this is why I was leaving Ingraham toward the blue flame.

naturist
Nomad
Nomad
Sam Spade wrote:

Heat is heat. It's natural flow is UP.


Yeah, provided we are talking about hot AIR.

Here's the thing about blue flame vs. infrared heaters. The former heat the air, but the latter send most of their heat out in the form of infrared LIGHT, very little heats the air directly. The infrared heaters make room occupants feel warmer than they otherwise would, and eventually heat the walls, ceiling, floor, and furniture surfaces. As a result, if you are counting on the heater to warm folks in the next room, blue flame is your choice. If you are only planning to heat people in the same room, infrared is probably a better bet.

A blue flame heater heats the air, the warm air goes up, and spreads across the ceiling. As it does so, it cools down, and in an RV, which is typically poorly insulated, you wind up mostly heating the great outdoors.

If you are talking about LP gas heaters, vented is a very much better choice for RV use because it will not add moisture to the air, nor create as much risk of carbon monoxide poisoning, nor deplete the oxygen. If you go with unvented, you MUST crack a couple windows (thus making it behave like a vented heater) to avoid those problems, which it must be noted can kill you.

GASMAN6674
Explorer
Explorer
Infra-red heaters (gas and electric) heat the objects in front of the the heater with a little convection heat above it. Blue flame heaters are mostly convection heat with a little radiant heat in front and work better with a blower. On all UNVENTED GAS appliances (even catalytics) one of the products of combustion is water, Your range and oven are no different. If you put a big heater in a small space you may get rain or streaking on cold surfaces. I recommend cracking a window.
Jim & Debbie England
Do you have Gas? Propane Exceptional Energy
2015 F350 CCLB 6.2L/4:30 Vermilion Red
2020 Cougar 364BHLGone but not forgotten 2012 Ridgeline 34RLT fifth wheel/2012 V27FK V-Cross TT

Sam_Spade
Explorer
Explorer
ralphnjoann wrote:
I'm a little confused here (not unusual). An infrared heater is electric and a blue flame heater is gas. Are you asking about electric vs gas, or gas convection vs gas radiant (blue flame vs brick)?


There are catalytic gas infrared heaters.
They should use slightly less gas and therefore not produce quite as much moisture.
However, using any kind of unvented gas heater is NOT a good idea.

If you are going to use gas, what is wrong with your built-in gas furnace ? Assuming that you have one, that is.
'07 Damon Outlaw 3611
CanAm Spyder in the "trunk"

Sam_Spade
Explorer
Explorer
MandMkuzie wrote:
The units are ventless... and question for the infrared... will the heat spread throughout or be concentrated in the room the heater is located in?


Heat is heat. It's natural flow is UP.

It likely will overheat the room it's in and not do much for the others.......without some kind of fan to circulate the air.
That is with any kind of heater.
'07 Damon Outlaw 3611
CanAm Spyder in the "trunk"

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Then don't get either of them.

MandMkuzie wrote:
The units are ventless
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

ralphnjoann
Explorer
Explorer
I'm a little confused here (not unusual). An infrared heater is electric and a blue flame heater is gas. Are you asking about electric vs gas, or gas convection vs gas radiant (blue flame vs brick)?

MandMkuzie
Explorer
Explorer
The units are ventless... and question for the infrared... will the heat spread throughout or be concentrated in the room the heater is located in?

pianotuna
Nomad II
Nomad II
Make sure to get a unit that is vented to the outside of the RV.
Regards, Don
My ride is a 28 foot Class C, 256 watts solar, 556 amp-hours of Telcom jars, 3000 watt Magnum hybrid inverter, Sola Basic Autoformer, Microair Easy Start.

mike-uswest
Explorer
Explorer
We put in a blue flame, before we went to Alaska one summer, and with the humidity and cold it had water running down the walls, in the cabinets, and everywhere. It took us the whole four months to figure out that was the cause. It was pretty, like a fireplace. We went back to the Olympian and solved the problem. I think that in a place like Arizona they would be great.

Mike
2019 Ram 2500 TCD, 4X4,
Arctic Fox 25Y 30'