buying used 5th wheel

[luggage]

Hi folks. I have been a TAG camper (30ft Jayco feather 29N)for about 7 years. I pretty much bought the camper to fit my 1500 Silverado and never had a problem with towing. I confess I did not make an informed decision regarding weight restrictions and I get a very confused with so many opinions I have read regarding hitch/tongue weight, GCWR,GVWR. I have a 2002 F250 diesel, 7.3 engine (not sure of rear end) or gear ratio. I am looking at a 2002 5th wheel Mountaineer Montana 298RLS by Keystone with a 91,000 to 91,300 w/carrying capacity of 3150 (whatever that means). My manual says I can tow 12,300 lbs. It is hard to know how to divide all the opinions on what I can tow. I have heard stories of folks' truck being weight down almost to the ground and some having to install air boots, etc. It's enough to make an old man (71)become paranoid. My RV dealer says I should not have a problem pulling this. I am not buying this RV from Him but an individual. I am planning to buy my 5th wheel hitch from Him. He says it needs to be a slider due to my F250 being a short bed. I then read about automatics and manuals. I have other questions but can someone help this confused old geezer make a better informed decision? Thanks

[azdryheat]

Re: Slider hitch. I never used the one in my Chevy 2500. Good idea to have, though, just in case.

[powderman426]

If you load the trailer to near capacity lets say 12k and using twenty percent so tongue weight which is considered about average you have 2400 lbs plus anything you put in the bed. That is close if not over on that truck but it will likely handle it. I would look for a little lighter trailer or a bigger truck. As for the slider hitch you may want to look at a revolution pin box.that way you can use a standard hitch and because you are used to pulling a trailer instead of a fifth wheel it make may be more to your liking as it will track and act more like a trailer as the pivot point is move d back to give more clearance. JMO

[pennysmom09]

As per my signature, we have a similar truck, and ours is F4x4 and had it weighed at close to 8k pounds. We have the pull rite super glide and it is serving us well. Our camper has the rounded cab, but we cannot make 90 degree turns or it will still bumb the truck cab. We have a little dent to prove it. ??. After visiting many dealerships for many months, not a single salesman ever suggested to us that what we could haul is different than what we could tow. Through this forum and other google searches we learned this important fact on our own. Our Durango is the 1100 series, rather than the 2500 series (heavier ), which salesmen said we could easily tow. We recently went through the Poconos/Adirondacks and the truck,performed well. We did have airbags installed, and it rides quite comfortably. If we ever upgrade, we would definitely get a heavier truck,but are doing fine for now.

[mileshuff]

For a shortbed a slider hitch is highly recommended. This is especially true for older trailers with flat front caps rather than the newer rounded caps. It will save you from a smashed truck cab and damaged trailer when making sharp turns especially when backing.

A manual slider hitch is normally in the forward towing position. If you turn sharp the trailer may still hit the cab. Generally such turns only occur when backing and thus the manual slider is moved to the rear position once you get to camp and need to back into your spot.

An automatic slider hitch moves from front to rear automatically as your truck is turned. There is no need to manually move anything. The only readily available auto slider hitch I'm aware of is the Pullrite Superglide. It is more expensive than a manual slider but to me is well worth it. One advantage of the superglide is the ability to easily completely remove the hitch from the bed by pulling a few pins and lift it out when you need to use your truck bed when not towing. Most other hitches require substantial time to remove and then reinstall later.

No matter which hitch you select try to find a local shop that specializes in hitches rather than buy from an RV dealer. I find hitch shops have better pricing and better skilled techs that get you what you need and do it right.

[sdetweil]

luggage wrote:
... My RV dealer says I should not have a problem pulling this. I am not buying this RV from Him but an individual. I am planning to buy my 5th wheel hitch from Him. He says it needs to be a slider due to my F250 being a short bed. I then read about automatics and manuals. I have other questions but can someone help this confused old geezer make a better informed decision? Thanks

for FW towing, the weight from the hitch should be 'just' in front of the rear axle centerline.. (mine has it 1 inch in front). this makes the truck more stable, weight on 4 wheels.

but the darned trailer is 8ft wide, so when u go to turn, you got 4ft of trailer front to worry about hitting the cab on extreme (90 degree) turns.. (which is only like 3.5 ft away from the hitch on a short bed)..
so, there are hitches (sliders) that allow you to move the pivot point back when you are doing (slow) and extreme turns (campgrounds, getting fuel, ...)..

some are manual (YOU have to unlock and move the position) and some are automatic (they detect the pressure and auto release).

some of the newer FW also changed the design of the front to have a notch that gives a little more turn room without a slider hitch. I don't know when this started.. my 2013 has it for sure (altho I have a longbed and don't need to worry about this issue)

[sdetweil]

> Mountaineer Montana 298RLS by Keystone with a 91,000 to 91,300 w/carrying capacity of 3150

I think you have the comma in the wrong place, 9,100-9,130lb (empty/dry)
plus (food, chairs, clothes, water in tanks ...) stuff (carrying capacity) of 3150 lbs.

so total trailer weight (GVWR) = 9100+3150 = 12,250. (there should be a label on the trailer with its GVWR, usually front drivers side somewhere)

for a 5th wheel, the hitch should have 15-25% of the total trailer weight. so 9100*.15 to 12500*.25 is the same as 1365 to 3125 lbs.
(higher is generally better).

this hitch weight will be in the bed of the pickup truck, so the truck has to be able to 'haul' that much (vs PULL the rest).
the truck 'haul' capacity includes ITs fuel, passenger weight, and whatever else ends up in the truck or bed (some carry firewood in the bed, this counts as truck haul weight)

its all a balancing act.
the truck is rated by 4 values.
1. total maximum weight (gross vehicle rating, GVWR)
2. maximum weight on front axle (FAWR)
3. maximum weight on rear axle (RAWR)
4. maximum combined weight of truck and towed thing. (gross combined vehicle weight rating) (GCVWR)

the 1st three are usually on a sticker on the drivers door post.
the latter will be in some document from Ford.
2002 towing guide see page 19,
says GCVWR is 20,000 for 250 with 7.3
so that means your truck (fuel, passengers, stuff, hitch weight)+trailer (and stuff), should not be more than 20,000 total.
(while keeping the other 3 numbers in line too)

a weigh scale ($8-$10 charge) will tell you exactly what the truck weighs before adding all the stuff. the tags only tell you the MAX, not actuals.

here is a good worksheet to help do the math.

now, SOME have been willing to go over these numbers, assuming that Ford (chevy/dodge) has designed in some spare capacity. Many do this everyday without problems. Some have disastrous results.

I traded in my 250 (10,000 GVWR and 6100 RAWR) for a 350 dually (13300 GVWR, and 9000 RAWR). The dually with the trailer connected weighs in a 11,900 (5240 FAW, 6660 RAW). so 1,900 more than my 250 allowed and 560 over the RAWR, trailer not yet loaded up.