Clearance Between Bed Rails and Fiver. Yikes!

[Hotel_Californi]

I was about to place an order for a 2014 3500HD 4x4 Ram, but went to dealer's lot first to take some measurements. If I want to tow my fifth wheel level, it looks like I'm only going to have 2 inches of clearance between the bed rails and the underside of the fifth wheel nose.

Currently have a 10 year old GMC Duramax 2500HD 4x4 with plenty of clearance. The height of the new Ram bed is 2.5 inches greater than the Duramax and the depth of the bed is 2 inches greater. That puts the RV 4.5 inches closer to the bed rails if I keep the RV level!

I could raise the fiver hitch height and lower the pin box, but that's going to make the RV tow with the nose up and tail down.

Am I understanding and calculating this correctly?

[ol_Bombero-JC]

2oldman wrote:

ScottG wrote:
Your going to have to lift the trailer...

Either that or order it with no bed and put a flatbed on it.

The OP is in CA - as you are - flat bed is a BAD PLAN !!

New weigh station rules require a *pickup* with a flat bed to stop.

"No Pickups" signs - do *not* apply.

Some stations may not pay attention when you pass with a pickup & flat bed, but others may not be happy..:(

CA - "Who Must Stop At Scales"

Scroll down to "Do These Vehicles Have To Stop At Scales"
and "PICKUP" - see the "Discussion" paragraph, pay special attention to the last sentence:

"If the pickup has a GVWR of 11,500 pounds or more, or the pickup bed has been removed and a utility body or a FLAT BED has been mounted, then it no longer meets the definition of pickup in CVC sec 471; it is then a 'motor truck' under CVC sec 410 and required to stop at the weigh stations."

Unfortunately, it is what it is.

"ScottG" has the best plan..;)

.

[NC_Hauler]

45Ricochet wrote:
That 2" figures Jim, these new 4th genny Rams don't seem to have a rake whatsoever like mine. I believe you told me you had 58.5" so a 2' drop would put the rails at 56.5 on a dually, SWR might be sprung differently.

I thought I had told you what it was Rick, but couldn't remember ...thx buddy.:)

[john_bet]

hoopers wrote:

Hotel California wrote:

john&bet wrote:
Two things not to forget is that the truck will settle about 2 inches or more when hooked up. Now you have 2 more inches than you thought would. Also if you raise the trailer don't exceed a height of 13'6".

The settling of the truck won't change the bed rail clearance, will it? It's a solid connection between the hitch and pin box so the fifth wheel and the truck should drop the same amount it seems. The settling would help the nose up attitude by those 2 inches though.

It means the nose of the fifth wheel will settle the same 2 inches as the truck settles. In turn, the nose of the fifth wheel will be 2 inches lower. In other words, the fifth wheel wont be level anymore, but tilting to the front.
To compensate, you can raise the hitch up 2 inches. I had the same thing happen on my chevy/Bighorn combo. It was more than 2 inches too. Without this compensation, I would have had a big issue on my clearances too.

My point is that I can not hook up my 5th with it level, I must raise it about 2". After hook up and legs raised all is level,truck and trailer. I have only 4-5 inches clearance with a level trailer and unloaded truck and 6-7 inches clearance with a level truck and trailer.

[45Ricochet]

That 2" figures Jim, these new 4th genny Rams don't seem to have a rake whatsoever like mine. I believe you told me you had 58.5" so a 2' drop would put the rails at 56.5 on a dually, SWR might be sprung differently.

[john_bet]

Hotel California wrote:

john&bet wrote:
Two things not to forget is that the truck will settle about 2 inches or more when hooked up. Now you have 2 more inches than you thought would. Also if you raise the trailer don't exceed a height of 13'6".

The settling of the truck won't change the bed rail clearance, will it? It's a solid connection between the hitch and pin box so the fifth wheel and the truck should drop the same amount it seems. The settling would help the nose up attitude by those 2 inches though.

If you measure a level trailer to ground and your truck to ground unloaded and find a certain difference the truck will be lower with load and trailer still level. Thus the clearance is more. To me trying to determine clearance by measuring a level trailer and an unloaded truck is going to give a false indication. I think this is what the op is trying to do. JMHO.

[NC_Hauler]

Hotel California wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:
The pucks are flush with bed....BUT, the picture frame adapter sits higher than a regular rail kit...again, I had to lower my 5er hitch one notch, by time 5er was locked onto hitch, trucks rear end dropped a couple inches and 5er actually set more level than on the 10 and 12 model Ram 3500 dually's I had....clearance is a little over 5"

Jim, how much pin weight do you have to force that 2" drop?

Last time I weighed my truck with 5er on it, my pin weight was @ 3300# and the weight of the 5er was 16,050#....The truck didn't drop as far as my 10 and 12 did...maybe the new frame and rear suspension? It may not be quite 2"...but it was close to that....again, it's the most level of the 3 Dodge/Ram trucks towing this 5er that I've had

[NC_Hauler]

Hotel California wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:
The pucks are flush with bed....BUT, the picture frame adapter sits higher than a regular rail kit...again, I had to lower my 5er hitch one notch, by time 5er was locked onto hitch, trucks rear end dropped a couple inches and 5er actually set more level than on the 10 and 12 model Ram 3500 dually's I had....clearance is a little over 5"

Jim, how much pin weight do you have to force that 2" drop?

Sent to you in PM...will re-weigh my 5er next month when I, (weather permitting), take our first camping trip to TN...last weigh was 5er at 16,050# with a pin weight of 3300#....

It just barely dropped 2"...I was almost hoping it would drop further, but didn't (new frame and rear suspension??)..Anyway, when I weigh it, will keep an "up to date numbers":)

[Hotel_Californi]

NC Hauler wrote:
The pucks are flush with bed....BUT, the picture frame adapter sits higher than a regular rail kit...again, I had to lower my 5er hitch one notch, by time 5er was locked onto hitch, trucks rear end dropped a couple inches and 5er actually set more level than on the 10 and 12 model Ram 3500 dually's I had....clearance is a little over 5"

Jim, how much pin weight do you have to force that 2" drop?

[NC_Hauler]

glazier wrote:

Hotel California wrote:
I was about to place an order for a 2014 3500HD 4x4 Ram, but went to dealer's lot first to take some measurements. If I want to tow my fifth wheel level, it looks like I'm only going to have 2 inches of clearance between the bed rails and the underside of the fifth wheel nose.

Currently have a 10 year old GMC Duramax 2500HD 4x4 with plenty of clearance. The height of the new Ram bed is 2.5 inches greater than the Duramax and the depth of the bed is 2 inches greater. That puts the RV 4.5 inches closer to the bed rails if I keep the RV level!

I could raise the fiver hitch height and lower the pin box, but that's going to make the RV tow with the nose up and tail down.

Am I understanding and calculating this correctly?

I wonder if the OEM Fifth Wheel package, and the picture frame for the pucks will give you a couple of inches off the bed floor?

The pucks are flush with bed....BUT, the picture frame adapter sits higher than a regular rail kit...again, I had to lower my 5er hitch one notch, by time 5er was locked onto hitch, trucks rear end dropped a couple inches and 5er actually set more level than on the 10 and 12 model Ram 3500 dually's I had....clearance is a little over 5"

[NC_Hauler]

Well Rick, at one time, somewhere in here, I think I told how high it was from ground to top of my tailgate, but it excapes me down and at 23 degrees and snowing....I'll check later. When I dropped my 5er into the bed of my 13' in Novemeber, it dropped about 2"....The picture frame adapter is taller than regular rails, so I dropped the height of my Reese 20K Signature hitch one notch...I have a "tad" over 5" of clearance between bedrail and bottom of 5er that could contact bedrails. I pulled the 5er off my property in WV, made a sharp right turn up a short steep hill, leveled off and had a little over an inch clearance from hitting 5er with bed rail...I back up a semi steep driveway, and truck will still be heading downhill while 5er is leveling off and still no contact, and reality, the 5er is setting "more level" with the 13 than the 12 or the 10...

[45Ricochet]

hmknightnc wrote:

Cummins12V98 wrote:


Probably an optical contusion but your RV looks low in the front in your pic. It won't hurt a thing to be a bit high in the front. The RAM's have a lot of spring travel. I bet you would be fine. Do you have spring hanger adjustments on your RV?

I agree. Your signature picture looks like you are towing at least 2" nose down. With the trailer actually level I suspect you will be fine. Especially since you have an '14 FW it should also be built already for today's higher trucks.

X3

Not sure about 2013 MY but mine will squat 4" when hitched. Top of my tailgate is 58" with no load. Sure does help getting the nose down.

[hoopers]

Hotel California wrote:

john&bet wrote:
Two things not to forget is that the truck will settle about 2 inches or more when hooked up. Now you have 2 more inches than you thought would. Also if you raise the trailer don't exceed a height of 13'6".

The settling of the truck won't change the bed rail clearance, will it? It's a solid connection between the hitch and pin box so the fifth wheel and the truck should drop the same amount it seems. The settling would help the nose up attitude by those 2 inches though.

It means the nose of the fifth wheel will settle the same 2 inches as the truck settles. In turn, the nose of the fifth wheel will be 2 inches lower. In other words, the fifth wheel wont be level anymore, but tilting to the front.
To compensate, you can raise the hitch up 2 inches. I had the same thing happen on my chevy/Bighorn combo. It was more than 2 inches too. Without this compensation, I would have had a big issue on my clearances too.

[Dutch___Di]

Welcome to our world. We ordered our 2014 2 wheel drive single cab Ram 3500 Ram dually in July 2013 before anyone realized how much higher it would be when it actually showed up in October. Yikes. We had to have step installed on the truck just to climb into the darned thing and we're NOT short. Then we realized your dilemma when we turned into a fuel station and almost hit the bed rail on the truck with the 5'er. Double Yikes!! We headed to Vegas and found a shop who could lower our 5th wheel we were able to use another set of bolt holes that were in our Mor/Ryde suspenion. They also dropped the pin box so we have a very good amount of clearance now-thank goodness.

Hotel California wrote:
I was about to place an order for a 2014 3500HD 4x4 Ram, but went to dealer's lot first to take some measurements. If I want to tow my fifth wheel level, it looks like I'm only going to have 2 inches of clearance between the bed rails and the underside of the fifth wheel nose.
Our truck now has a slight nose up attitude but nothing offensive. We did not need air bags with the heavy duty suspension that this truck has which is a good thing because that would have made us higher yet and less clearance. Hope this helps. Hugs, Di

Currently have a 10 year old GMC Duramax 2500HD 4x4 with plenty of clearance. The height of the new Ram bed is 2.5 inches greater than the Duramax and the depth of the bed is 2 inches greater. That puts the RV 4.5 inches closer to the bed rails if I keep the RV level!

I could raise the fiver hitch height and lower the pin box, but that's going to make the RV tow with the nose up and tail down.

Am I understanding and calculating this correctly?

[j2catfish]

Some manufacturers state (in their owners manual) that it is OK to tow slightly nose up. I'd check that first for a cost saving method of correcting your problem. The second thing I would do (or did do)is install the drop shackles like some one else stated. That should give you probably enough clearance. YMMV.
Catfish