First 5th Wheel--Bad Braking???

[bowler1]

Hi,
I just got my first 5th wheel and am a bit concerned about the braking. It weighs 12,500 pounds and has a 2500 pound pin weight. I am pulling it with my Ram 3500 which has a 4,200 pound max pay load so I well within the payload capacity of the truck. I have the factory brake controller maxed out at 10

I drove it home yesterday from the dealer. Slowing down was not a problem while driving because of the exhaust brake so I really did not use the trailer brakes much. However, when I did have to come to a complete stop I found that the brakes did not feel to be slowing me down sufficiently. Maybe I needed to step on them harder, and maybe the trailer brakes will get better as I break them in (user manual said it takes about 1000 miles to do this), but I am a little concerned that I would have a problem if I had to slam the brake on while on the highway.

Any feedback? Will this get better when the trailer brakes are broken in? Is it just that I am not braking hard enough?

thanks
Matt

[garyp4951]

My new truck controller does not even compare to my old truck with the Max Brake controller, If they still sold them I would get one.

[BarneyS]

Matt,
Do not be disturbed if you cannot get your trailer brakes to lock up when using the manual lever. Most trailers are too heavy for the normal brakes to lock the wheels unless equipped with disk brakes or you are on a sandy surface.

That being said, it sounds like your brakes need adjusting. You should feel a strong pull-back when you apply 100% with the manual lever. If you don't, then I would suspect truck controller adjustment first, brake adjustment second, and trailer brake wiring third.
Try some different settings on your truck brake controller settings.
I would even try "elec over Hydraulic" if you have it.
Barney

[bowler1]

Hi,
Thanks for all the replies. I hooked up the trailer yesterday and drove around with it for an hour or so to try to get the brakes burned in a bit. I did several iterations of starting at about 20mph and applying only the trailer brakes until the truck slowed / stopped. I did this enough times (giving time to cool as well) to where I think the brakes should be burned in fairly well.

They work better now, but here is what I found:

-I cannot get them to lock up or even come close to locking up at any speed when manually applying the brake. This is at the highest brake setting and set for "heavy electric"

-If I apply only the trailer brakes at about 20mph I can feel them come on but now very aggressively. It will take maybe 15 seconds or so to stop my rig from this speed (estimated--maybe even 20)

-If applying at 5-10 mph I can feel them come on and provide resistance but not enough to provide a jerk. Applied at 10mph it still takes probably 5 seconds or so to stop my entire rig

So based on the above does that sound normal? They definitely are coming on, but I think my truck brakes are doing a lot of the braking for both trailer and truck.

Matt

[Arcamper]

Self adjusting drum brakes are ok on my 7,000 lb utility trailer but for my 16,000 lb 5th wheel I decided to dump the 1960's tech and go with disc brakes. Night and day difference no matter what anyone says. They do cost more but if you can afford a new camper I bet you can afford a disc brake conversion. I will not go cheap on my families safety.

[justme]

Trailer brakes on most 5th wheel trailers are marginal and one must allow for a long stopping distance. I have two 7K axles on a 40ft trailer and I drive very defensively to compensate for long stopping distance. I am surprised DOT does not force RV mfg's to install more robust brakes. Mine are 12X2.5 inch and should be a minimum of 12X3inch brake shoes on 6-7K axles. Disk brakes are the best option, but very expensive while larger brake shoes/drum would be less expensive..but effective.

[SawdustArtist]

If you find the magnet is bad or the shoes contaminated, you're almost money ahead to replace the brake plates with the self-adjusters. I think I gave $80 - $90 each. It made a huge difference in how the trailer (2011 Crossroads Seville) stops. Not having to adjust the brakes is definitely a plus.

[time2roll]

Charlie D. wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Is this a brand new trailer? 1,000 miles seems a bit long to wait and investigate brake issues. I would start with a clamp-on DC ammeter to check each wheel is getting 3 amps when the brake is manually applied. If that checks out I would inspect all brakes by removing the drums. If you are not getting 3 amps per wheel check the wiring and controller.

From what I have read I agree that each wheel should receive 3 amps when fully applied but would 3 amps per wheel guarantee that the brakes are working and stopping correctly? Would not 3 amps per wheel and improperly adjusted brakes give the OP the same problem he describes?

Maybe I was too brief.

If you have 3 amps it is probably a mechanical issue so pull the drums.

If you do not have 3 amps it is probably an electrical issue. Check the wiring.

Over 3 amps and the magnet is probably shorted. This would most likely cause the controller to display an error.

[Likes_to_tow]

From my experiences, I would never dig into a brake controller or wiring issue until I had pulled my brake drums and checked for grease on the brake shoes and checked the adjustment.........just my personal opinion for what it's worth!!

[Charlie_D_]

time2roll wrote:
Is this a brand new trailer? 1,000 miles seems a bit long to wait and investigate brake issues. I would start with a clamp-on DC ammeter to check each wheel is getting 3 amps when the brake is manually applied. If that checks out I would inspect all brakes by removing the drums. If you are not getting 3 amps per wheel check the wiring and controller.

From what I have read I agree that each wheel should receive 3 amps when fully applied but would 3 amps per wheel guarantee that the brakes are working and stopping correctly? Would not 3 amps per wheel and improperly adjusted brakes give the OP the same problem he describes?

[djousma]

Planning wrote:

bowler1 wrote:
Hi,
I just got my first 5th wheel and am a bit concerned about the braking.
Matt

The towed RV industry has lagged in certain technologies. A significant portion of the boat trailer industry use disc brakes, and a growing segment of OEM and aftermarket towed RV's are switching to disc brakes.

We put them on ours prior to receipt of the unit from the dealer. Many others have used a company called Performance Trailer Braking with almost universal excellent reviews of both the workmanship and the product performance. I have not yet seen a post from anyone who has gone to discs say that they regret the decision. Yes, there are some naysayers, but to my knowledge, none within the group that actually uses them.

The average cost for a turnkey system (Titan and the Titan Brakerite controller in view) is around $3000.

We very much enjoy ours.

Bingo on the PerformanceTrailerBraking.com folks. My Cardinal GVWR is just over 16K. Came with standard electric/drum brakes. My Ford with IBC, cranked up to 10, and aggressive setting, still felt weak. Mine even had self adjusters, so I went to parking lot, and did a lot of start/stops with the manual brake lever too hoping to adjust/seat/bed them to make them better. Finally, gave the boys a call, and a month later, had disc brakes. Boy, what a difference. I now run at 6, and anything higher will lock the wheels.

My next 5th, whenever that may be, will have disc from the factory.

[joebedford]

fj12ryder wrote:

azdryheat wrote:
There are self-adjusting trailer brakes on the market but our trailer builders refuse to use them.

I don't know about your trailer builder, but my trailer has self-adjusting brakes and they work quite well.

I don't know about your trailer builder but mine has manual adjusting brakes and they work quite well.

I only commented on the post from the guy who said use the auto adjusters to tighten up the brakes. Many (most?) trailer don't have auto-adjusting brakes.

[fj12ryder]

azdryheat wrote:
There are self-adjusting trailer brakes on the market but our trailer builders refuse to use them.

I don't know about your trailer builder, but my trailer has self-adjusting brakes and they work quite well.

[Planning]

bowler1 wrote:
Hi,
I just got my first 5th wheel and am a bit concerned about the braking.
Matt

The towed RV industry has lagged in certain technologies. A significant portion of the boat trailer industry use disc brakes, and a growing segment of OEM and aftermarket towed RV's are switching to disc brakes.

We put them on ours prior to receipt of the unit from the dealer. Many others have used a company called Performance Trailer Braking with almost universal excellent reviews of both the workmanship and the product performance. I have not yet seen a post from anyone who has gone to discs say that they regret the decision. Yes, there are some naysayers, but to my knowledge, none within the group that actually uses them.

The average cost for a turnkey system (Titan and the Titan Brakerite controller in view) is around $3000.

We very much enjoy ours.

[time2roll]

Is this a brand new trailer? 1,000 miles seems a bit long to wait and investigate brake issues. I would start with a clamp-on DC ammeter to check each wheel is getting 3 amps when the brake is manually applied. If that checks out I would inspect all brakes by removing the drums. If you are not getting 3 amps per wheel check the wiring and controller.

[azrving]

Search the web. It's an issue with the late model Dodge trucks some people have a problem some don't. When I pull the new 14 foot utility trailer which has one axle brakes it wouldn't hold my truck at a stop with the manual lever full on and set to heavy Electric.

My son's 2012 locks the tires instantly on the pavement. Another son has a 2013 pulling a large tandem axle vehicle trailer and empty can smoke the tires with full manual lever. I have now installed a prodigy P3 and their Ram connector harness and the braking was better. I then went back in and used the universal harness to the Prodigy which has 12 gauge wire pigtails. The only portion of the Prodigy harness that I used was the red wire which has a diode in it so the brake system is not back fed. From The Prodigy Universal connector with the 12 gauge leads I ran 12 gauge to the battery and 12 gauge blue all the way back to the jumper that goes between the bumper 7-way and the bed 7-way that jumper lead has 12 gauge in it.

The wiring from the factory controller to the rear is only 16 gauge. If you check the voltage back at the RV you will probably only see about 7 volts they say that Ram cuts it down to that under 30 miles an hour.

Using the Prodigy controller and 12 gauge wiring it will now smoke the tires on the utility trailer I haven't pulled the fifth wheel yet because we're staying in it.

Obviously you have to be sure you don't have contaminated brakes or poor wiring connections which is common underneath the rig everything in my system has been soldered and sealed.

When doing a tug test on my pin my brakes always seem to hold really well but on the road using the manual lever they never did much and I also use the exhaust brake a lot and manually downshift.

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