Help me understand the difference?!?!

[kfp673]

We are moving on from our travel trailer and looking to move into either a toy hauler or MotorHome. Seems like we are landing on the toy hauler. One of my must haves is auto level. I was originally considering travel trailer toy haulers in the 35-38' range but it is incredibly difficult to find one with auto level. So now we are looking at equal size 2 axel 5th wheel toy haulers.

A few questions. When I look at brands Like XLR Nitro or Impact they have an MSRP in the mid 70's and then sell for upper 40's to low 50's. What makes a brand like Grand design have a prices $30-50k higher? Are they really that much better, or is it more about interior features etc? I read about the GD "Dropped Frame" which gives you huge storage space. Anyone else doing that now?

Anyway, please share your thoughts. Is it worth the difference? XLR, Impact, Carbon, are they all about the same? I am struggling to understand what I am paying for with some of these. I am willing to pay more (within budget) for quality and longevity (we kept out current trailer 15 years) but not for fancy stuff. Thanks!

[JAC1982]

Before we bought our Impact we looked at pretty much anything that had a floor plan we liked, including Grand Design. GD was by far much better "feeling" than our Impact, and even Fuzions. Everything just felt more solid and looked/felt higher quality. XLR Nitro and Impact are about the same, quality/finish wise. In fact, a friend of ours has a Nitro that's almost exactly the same floor plan and finishes as our Impact. Carbon is the next step down in terms of finishes etc. We also looked at Dutchmen Triton models, but they felt really cheap, and at the time, didn't offer auto-leveling even as an option, which was a deal killer.

In the end, we went with the Impact because we don't use it often enough to warrant the higher price. But if we used it a lot/lived in it, we'd go Grand Design all the way. That being said, our neighbor got a Fuzion that's a bit bigger than ours, and has a lot more bells and whistles, for only 3k more, from the same dealer. They didn't have a trade like we did so that factored into it. Their floor plan wouldn't have worked for us but we still were a little annoyed haha!

Also, we previously had a Raptor TT (rebranded as a Carbon after our year). It was fine, but in the end, it wasn't very fun to tow. We do a lot of towing in wind and on grades and TT's aren't great in the wind, no matter what your set up is. Plus, we were already at 32' and that was with only a 10' garage. We didn't want to go longer, or have an open garage, but wanted a bigger garage. The 5er pulls like a dream and we'll never go back to a TT, unless it's to get a second little one just to use on quick weekend trips without the RZR.

[crazybanshee]

We have owned five different brands of toy haulers and our GD is one of the highest quality yet. Just like everything you buy you get what you pay for.

[Y-Guy]

kfp673 wrote:
just curious what made you guys go 5th vs TT or vice versa, and what made you go Toy hauler at all vs motorhome??

1) 5er vs TT - hands down the 5er will tow better, significantly less sway issues and generally more capacity for toys and other things like CCC, water, slides, etc. You have more floor plan options with the 5er too and they go longer lengths as well. I've had a couple TTs and 5er, if I were go back to a trailer it would be a 5er, just due to the towing handling.

2) Trailer vs motorhome. I have had a Raptor Toy Hauler and our Class A. As much as I liked our Raptor, there are several reason we have had our Class A for 11 years. Biggest reason I switched initially was I really needed to have a dually to tow that 39' toy hauler safely and that just wasn't an option for me. Had one near accident with it and I did not like having that much weight behind me, pushing me. With the motorhome I felt I was more in control.

The big payoff I found was driving. I could drive a lot longer and not get to camp feeling exhausted. Having made the exact same drive with both setups a few times I was very happy with the change. The the other plus? No as many stops, not for food or bathrooms!

But you need to know what type of toys and riding you are going to do. There are some places I wouldn't take a motorhome.

Finally the reason we've stayed with the Motorhome; we could haul our ATVs or our boat or now my jeep.

[kfp673]

Thanks all. As to the price, I definitly see GD haulers discounted. My main question is looking at apples to apples trailers (or as close as possible) why the large difference in MSRP. For example, a 5th wheel impact, carbon, XLR, etc 38' with 12' garage, double drop down bed, auto level, etc etc might MSRP for between $70-90k and discount from there. That same GD would be $115 and discount from there. Obviously, much like a home, there are interior products that can be much better quality or even just more stylish that run up cost. My main question is, is that all there is? Is this purely an interior game? Or does the GD (and others in this price range) have a better overall build ie Frame, Roof, insulation, axels, etc.

Also, going back to my original post, just curious what made you guys go 5th vs TT or vice versa, and what made you go Toy hauler at all vs motorhome??

Thanks again!

[arhayes]

tinner12002 wrote:
The difference in pricing is that most GD dealers don't want to come much off the MSRP whereas dealers for other brands usually will sell theirs at 30-35% off sticker. That doesn't mean its any less of a hauler but it does help the pocket book! They all have issues but your dealer in my opinion can make or break your RV owning experience.

Absolutely untrue. I ordered my GD spec'd the way I wanted it and paid 31% less than the MSRP. I know many other GD owners who also negotiated 25-30% off as well.

On the initial question, I also have full-timed in mine for 4 years now. At the time GD did not even have the M Class. As previously stated all of their rigs were along the premium line and comparable to the other premium brands TH's. Their customer service and warranty follow-up seems to be much better than most others. I would focus on getting the layout and features you want.mwe looked at about 60 rigs before buying the one we are in.

[Y-Guy]

Every RV dealer wants you to believe they won't discount their brand, because it's better then the others. Reality is even Grand Design RVs get discounted. Just last week one of my friends bought one at 27% off after being told their price was posted and they couldn't discount the Grand Design units.

[tinner12002]

The difference in pricing is that most GD dealers don't want to come much off the MSRP whereas dealers for other brands usually will sell theirs at 30-35% off sticker. That doesn't mean its any less of a hauler but it does help the pocket book! They all have issues but your dealer in my opinion can make or break your RV owning experience.

[redhooker]

In the last 4 years (we full timed for almost 3) I have been in and even performed repairs on most of the major brands of fifth wheel toy haulers. In my observations not much structural differences between most brands. GD only has a premium model, while the Voltage, Fuzion Chrome, cyclone, and Thunderbolt are the other brands “premium” models. All use LCI frames and components with some MorRyde stuff mixed in. All have some design advantages and some disadvantages, and like dogs-none are truly better than the others. For each brand I have a different list of what I perceive as flaws in their respective designs and each has some trade offs.


Start by walking through each and find some floor plans you like, then research the brands individually and begin to narrow it down.

[socaladam]

kfp673 wrote:
We are moving on from our travel trailer and looking to move into either a toy hauler or MotorHome. Seems like we are landing on the toy hauler. One of my must haves is auto level. I was originally considering travel trailer toy haulers in the 35-38' range but it is incredibly difficult to find one with auto level. So now we are looking at equal size 2 axel 5th wheel toy haulers.

A few questions. When I look at brands Like XLR Nitro or Impact they have an MSRP in the mid 70's and then sell for upper 40's to low 50's. What makes a brand like Grand design have a prices $30-50k higher? Are they really that much better, or is it more about interior features etc? I read about the GD "Dropped Frame" which gives you huge storage space. Anyone else doing that now?

Anyway, please share your thoughts. Is it worth the difference? XLR, Impact, Carbon, are they all about the same? I am struggling to understand what I am paying for with some of these. I am willing to pay more (within budget) for quality and longevity (we kept out current trailer 15 years) but not for fancy stuff. Thanks!

My wife and I went through the same conundrum. Unless you're willing to pay top dollar, they're all built about the same and are not designed for long term or full time usage.

When we searched for a toy hauler, build quality was a necessity for us. I'm a huge proponent of buy once, cry once.

With that said, we found Grand Design 351M to be head and shoulders above the rest, but you do pay more for it. The second option we considered was the Dutchman Voltage V3605 (both were close to the same price).

I'll say that Forest River is like the McDonalds of the trailer industry. The just crank out the volume and the build quality is just ok.

If you're considering a Keystone, I would look more to the upper end of the Raptor and Fuzion lines. They seem to use better quality materials.


Finally, if you're having trouble with a TT and the auto level, you can always have it added. LCI now makes an auto level system for TT and the cost is about $3k + installation. I know this as we are considering this for our ATC toy hauler which currently has manual leveling jacks.

[azdryheat]

There is usually better quality for a higher price. My luxury-class Voltage was $109k MSRP but I got it for low $70's. Except for some initial bugs, which all RV's have, it has been a great, reliable trailer. At the dealership I work at I'm in motorhomes and trailers everyday and it's easy to see and hear the differences between brands and models within brands.

Some examples: When I'm opening and closing slides on Heartland and Keystone trailers they seem somewhat flimsy compared to the more solid feel of the more expensive Vilano trailers. When I'm driving motorhomes the less expensive Thor brand seems to have a louder gas engine noise than the more expensive Tiffin gas models.

Generally speaking, it is only my opinion, that more money buys a better RV.