How to buy a used toy hauler

[twodownzero]

I'm in the market for a 10-15 year old used toy hauler. I'd like to spend $6-8k on one. The book value on these units suggests that I have sufficient budget and just have to find the right one, but I've had very little luck finding any units priced anywhere even close to book. I thought the book just be low, but I inquired with the bank and they will not loan more than NADA high retail for any unit, so apparently they think the book means something. What can I do to make sure I don't pay too much for a well used trailer?

I'm looking for ~30 feet, probably 5th wheel, with a generator. Other features not important.

[twodownzero]

bullmastifflover wrote:
Congrats, I think we have the same unit. Ours is a 33TB. We bought our 2002 model in 2010 for $9,500. We love ours, so roomy and comfortable. Enjoy!

Mine is a 327TB; not sure if the models are named different things in different years. Just got done winterizing her to make sure she doesn't freeze, although in southern NM, it doesn't get cold for long. Thanks for the kind words.

[bullmastifflove]

Congrats, I think we have the same unit. Ours is a 33TB. We bought our 2002 model in 2010 for $9,500. We love ours, so roomy and comfortable. Enjoy!

[twodownzero]

CincyGus wrote:
Congrats on the trailer! On the point of your post, many just have to understand that large "markups" are the norm on such a large purchase of this type. I mean look at the $7000-$10000 off ad's on TV for trucks during truck month or whatever the marketing gimmick is every quarter.

These forums are full of people that negotiated 25%-30% off New trailers. Even have a few that if they are honest will tell you they traded in their trailer for about 60% of what they later saw it listed for on that dealer website.

So know that listed or MSRP is a number that no one expects anyone to pay for NEW or USED trailers. Many private owners are having a hard time coming to grips that they are upside down in a 15 year load of their trailer and it's worth about half what they owe on it. Some decide that they want a new trailer bad enough to trade it in, take the loss and move on. The smart ones list it, listen to offers for a while and sell it for somewhere between what the dealer offered and low retail.

I couldn't agree more. The market for these things is really screwed up. I ended up buying an older, larger, and heavier 5th wheel than I wanted, because that's what I found used and in good condition. Mine is a 1-owner unit, smells new, and so even though I will have to carefully go over a lot of details, it's a good canvass.

The entire RV market is broken. Dealers are delusional on used units. I wouldn't be surprised if they're listing them for 3 times what they own them for. I have no problem with people making a fair profit, but if someone is going to do business like that, I am skeptical of absolutely everything they represent about the product. I went to look at a camper locally that had a book value of about $9000. The guy told me he was "blowing it out" at $19,300 and wouldn't negotiate. I see now the same unit is for sale in the $18k range. I would have happily written him a check for the whole $9k and left with the unit that day, but our discussion indicated that he was looking for a willing sucker to part with his cash (or worse, to finance it with private money, since no bank will loan $19k for an asset worth $9k).

[twodownzero]

socaladam wrote:
The problem I have with the NADA guide is they only let you pick from the outdated list of items. For instance, have two or three AC units all 15k BTU? you can only pick one. Have a patio kit on the back? Not an option. Have two or three televisions, all the same size? You get to pick one. Have an electric awning longer than 21 feet? Too bad, 21 is the max. The list goes on and on...

Not only that, but the prices are a joke. I mean really? $490 for an electric awning? $500 doesn't even cover the cost of the awning material and $630 for a fuel station? Give me a break.

I don't trust anyone that can't spell DUAL PANE WINDOWS...

Duel Pane Windows
$705
$850

A lot of the options you're mentioning actually aren't "options" on most toy haulers. If I noticed something when I was shopping, it was that most toy haulers, especially new ones, come with A/C, awnings, and sometimes even fuel stations and generators standard. As such, those things do not affect the value of a used unit, since all of the used units have them.

I did end up paying a little more than NADA for my trailer, for which I'm not thrilled, but it was the right unit for me and I don't plan to sell anytime soon. The nice thing about an 18 year old unit is that it's pretty much done depreciating if it is kept in good condition; there are no toy haulers of really any shape or size that sell for less than $5000 if everything works.

The marginal cost of additional options isn't designed to compensate the seller for the market value of a new awning. A new awning is not worth the same as a used one to anyone. The marginal addition in cost of a unit with a particular option is designed to recognize what a buyer and seller might negotiate for additional $$$ on the sale because the option is there. Power door locks might only be a $60 option, but if a seller is willing to pay $200 more for the same car with power door locks, then that is what it adds to the value of the car. If the same buyer doesn't like a sunroof, that might subtract from what he is willing to pay. Most complex durable goods like trailers and cars are worth more as a sum of their parts than as a complete unit. If you want to deal with the hassle of taking them apart and parting them out, you can make a handy profit selling used parts by buying functional units and parting them out. I'm sure you've seen junkyards in your life; those businesses aren't in the business of losing money.

[nayther]

socaladam wrote:
The problem I have with the NADA guide is they only let you pick from the outdated list of items. For instance, have two or three AC units all 15k BTU? you can only pick one. Have a patio kit on the back? Not an option. Have two or three televisions, all the same size? You get to pick one. Have an electric awning longer than 21 feet? Too bad, 21 is the max. The list goes on and on...

Not only that, but the prices are a joke. I mean really? $490 for an electric awning? $500 doesn't even cover the cost of the awning material and $630 for a fuel station? Give me a break.

I don't trust anyone that can't spell DUAL PANE WINDOWS...

Duel Pane Windows
$705
$850

You're confusing "value" with "cost" two entirely different animals.

[socaladam]

The problem I have with the NADA guide is they only let you pick from the outdated list of items. For instance, have two or three AC units all 15k BTU? you can only pick one. Have a patio kit on the back? Not an option. Have two or three televisions, all the same size? You get to pick one. Have an electric awning longer than 21 feet? Too bad, 21 is the max. The list goes on and on...

Not only that, but the prices are a joke. I mean really? $490 for an electric awning? $500 doesn't even cover the cost of the awning material and $630 for a fuel station? Give me a break.

I don't trust anyone that can't spell DUAL PANE WINDOWS...

Duel Pane Windows
$705
$850

[CincyGus]

Congrats on the trailer! On the point of your post, many just have to understand that large "markups" are the norm on such a large purchase of this type. I mean look at the $7000-$10000 off ad's on TV for trucks during truck month or whatever the marketing gimmick is every quarter.

These forums are full of people that negotiated 25%-30% off New trailers. Even have a few that if they are honest will tell you they traded in their trailer for about 60% of what they later saw it listed for on that dealer website.

So know that listed or MSRP is a number that no one expects anyone to pay for NEW or USED trailers. Many private owners are having a hard time coming to grips that they are upside down in a 15 year loan of their trailer and it's worth about half what they owe on it. Some decide that they want a new trailer bad enough to trade it in, take the loss and move on. The smart ones list it, listen to offers for a while and sell it for somewhere between what the dealer offered and low retail.

[twodownzero]

All mine! Thanks all.

[twodownzero]

Going to look at some units tomorrow. I'll probably return with a trailer. I think I can stay within budget but I suspect I'll be paying more than I want to pay for one.

[JAC1982]

As with real estate, the only way to determine true value is to see what someone is actually willing to pay for it. Just because a bank will lend X amount, doesn't mean it's worth that.

I say, if you find a trailer you like, and come up with a price you're willing to pay, then that's what it is worth to you. It doesn't matter what a bank will lend or what some guide is saying it's worth if you don't think it's worth that.

With our last trailer, NADA said it was worth $27,000. We were lucky to get $20,000 when we traded it in. Zero bites when trying to sell it ourselves. So, to me, it was worth $20,000 (which sucks considering we paid $34,000 for it 2 years prior). Dealer sold it for around $25,000, not much less than we offered it for when trying to do a private sale. They have the advantage though, because they make it easy to purchase.... if you buy private you have to get financing (assuming you aren't paying cash of course) lined up, etc etc all by yourself. At a dealer, they make it easy, and also I think many people think buying from a dealer vs a private seller is "safer".

I think you'd be better off just trying to find a private seller for a trailer in that price range, than going through a dealer. Or, just offer what you think it's worth at the dealer... they can take it or leave it.

[joebedford]

twodownzero wrote:
Maybe I actually will try this. I guess I find it so dishonest when someone lists a trailer that is worth $5500-6500 for $9000 that I don't think they'll deal at all.

What's dishonest about that? Welcome to Capitalism 101.

[twodownzero]

4x4ord wrote:
Years ago when I bought my first 5th wheel I saw a very nice Custom Coach advertised. It was a private sale. The guy had it listed for $18,000 and I believe he honestly thought it would sell for that. I showed him an ad for another trailer that I was interested in and offered him 13500. He told me that he had already purchased a new trailer and his dealership was willing to allow him more than my offer. Anyway he traded it and a week later I saw his old trailer on a used trailer lot with an asking price of 13500.

Isn't that wild? He was so married to the unit that he took $8k for it plus some sales tax savings instead of the $13.5k you offered!

I would drive 500+ miles to buy the right unit with a wad of 20s right now, and it's winter everywhere. It's not like I'm looking for something new or too good to be true.

[4x4ord]

Years ago when I bought my first 5th wheel I saw a very nice Custom Coach advertised. It was a private sale. The guy had it listed for $18,000 and I believe he honestly thought it would sell for that. I showed him an ad for another trailer that I was interested in and offered him 13500. He told me that he had already purchased a new trailer and his dealership was willing to allow him more than my offer. Anyway he traded it and a week later I saw his old trailer on a used trailer lot with an asking price of 13500.

[Dirtclods]

figuring out what trailers are really worth

Or check out ebay


You can also do similar on Craig's list. https://orangecounty.craigslist.org/search/rva?query=5th+wheel+toy+hauler