Montana vs. Arctic Fox vs. Grand Design

[Leo_Smith]

My wife and I currently own a Cougar TT that has served us well for weekend camping trips and week-long road trips. As we get closer to retirement, we are looking at fifth wheels for extended road trips. Looking ahead to our next RV (a fifth wheel) we have narrowed down our search to 3 brands: Montana, Arctic Fox, and Grand Design.

The Montana Dealer in our area has a good reputation (also the same dealer where we purchased our Cougar). The Arctic Fox dealer in our area has a stellar reputation. The Grand Design dealer in our area has a so-so reputation.

At the risk of starting the Ram/Ford/Chevy debate, I would appreciate the perspective of current owners of these three brands. Has the quality of Arctic Fox gone downhill with the passing of Ron Nash? Has the quality of Grand Design gone downhill since they have been acquired by Winnebago? Should I put the quality of the dealership ahead of the quality of the fifth wheel?

[marilyninTexas]

We owned a 2007 35' Montana with 3 slides.  We bought it used (it was probably used 3-4 times) in 2012.  It was the top of the line when new.  We pulled that trailer 13,000 miles the first 5 months we owned it.  We have put over 95,000 miles on that trailer.  I know that because we have a Ford F250  diesel with 103,000 miles and we only use it to pull our Montana.  The only thing we did was regular maintenance eg., a/c, tires, etc.  We have since sold it and bought at 2021 Artic Fox Grande Ronde27-5L and have only pulled it for a year.  It has automatic leveling and it has done nothing but give us headaches.  I figure we will give it another summer and if we are not more impressed with it by then, I know where I can sell it!. Hands down, I would buy another Montana any day of the week!

[way2roll]

While I am sure the OP would have found this information useful, this thread is 4 years old and the OP hasn't been on since. 

[marilyninTexas]

So sorry.  Guess I didn't realize it was so old.  It won't happen again.

[way2roll]

No worries. It happens a lot. I think because as a new user/visitor often you can't see the dates. It's something we've raised to the moderators. 

[dieseltruckdriv]

jdb7566 wrote:


We purchased a 2930RL in Sept of 2019. Not impressed with the "workmanship" that you find when you explore a problem. I will never purchase a "new" RV again.

We had that exact conversation when we were deciding to buy new or used.
I said, if we buy new, we know exactly what and how things were fixed. If we bought newer used, there would be no problems.

We bought new, and had a few minor things to deal with. Now we know exactly how they were were dealt with.

[jdb7566]

dpgllg wrote:
We have a 2017 Grand Design Reflection 27RL. It was great for the first year and then things really took a turn south.

Replaced Dometic AC after 13 months. Yup 1 month out of Dometic Warranty.

Replaced entry lock.

Entire frame is covered in surface rust almost as if painted with nothing. I'm waiting on a response now from Lippert.

Replaced circuit board on hot water tank.

Grand Designs response on all but door lock. Contact manufacture of component its not our problem. We don't offer a warranty on rust.

The last phone call with Grand Design the gentleman I spoke with basically called me a liar saying I never reported any of these issues. I told him that Grand Design should consider better quality components and he laughed.

Grand Design DOES NOT offer the same customer service as before being acquired by Winnebago. It is dramatically worse.

We may have got a lemon I don't know but I won't be singing the praises of Grand Design.

Dave

X2
We purchased a 2930RL in Sept of 2019. Not impressed with the "workmanship" that you find when you explore a problem. I will never purchase a "new" RV again.

[dpgllg]

jdc1 wrote:

dpgllg wrote:
We have a 2017 Grand Design Reflection 27RL. It was great for the first year and then things really took a turn south.

Replaced Dometic AC after 13 months. Yup 1 month out of Dometic Warranty.

Replaced entry lock.

Entire frame is covered in surface rust almost as if painted with nothing. I'm waiting on a response now from Lippert.

Replaced circuit board on hot water tank.

Grand Designs response on all but door lock. Contact manufacture of component its not our problem. We don't offer a warranty on rust.

The last phone call with Grand Design the gentleman I spoke with basically called me a liar saying I never reported any of these issues. I told him that Grand Design should consider better quality components and he laughed.

Grand Design DOES NOT offer the same customer service as before being acquired by Winnebago. It is dramatically worse.

We may have got a lemon I don't know but I won't be singing the praises of Grand Design.

Dave

Grand Design was correct. They don't build any of those components...they just install them. As for the rust....maybe it has something to do with salted roads? There again...not GD's doing.

The rust on the frame is not from salted roads as the unit has never been out in any snow / cold. It was stored before Halloween and not taken out till May. The entire frame is covered in surface rust not just a few spots. It is clear that the paint on the frame was not done right.

Yes Grand Design does not build the components BUT they choose to use them. If you have a contractor build a house for you and they use inferior materials and then problems start who do you go to for help. The contractor who built it not the individual component makers. Until consumers demand better quality then these types of issues will continue.

I know that all manufactures use the same components I chose Grand Design because at the time they stood behind the products. It is what made them stand out from the others. Now that Winnebago owns them not so much. The man I spoke to was rude and condescending. I used to work in customer support and there is a way to say no to someone without being a jerk.

Dave

[memtb]

Veebyes wrote:
Noticed that you are on the West Coast. One of the best builders around was right in your state in Yakima.

There should be plenty of Alpenlites around, many of them in very good condition. Try to find a 2000-2005 model. In house built frame, not Lippert. 100gal FW tank. Very well made. Not as good as a Teton Homes but one of the best of the era. Way better than what is out there now new.

You mentioned Teton Homes. We’ve owned a (actually several) Teton since 1993. If something were to happen to ours, God forbid.....we’d be internet shopping immediately. There are quite a few still around for sale, at a small % of what a buyer would pay for one of today’s “so called” quality units. If the buyer was careful, and found a Teton with no structural/roof issues.....the buyer could replace almost every component on the unit, and still be far ahead when quality and construction were factored in. memtb

[goducks10]

memtb wrote:
With the recent ( several years) trend of lowered quality control among most units manufactured, especially those with Lippert manufactured components.....I would look more favorably to the unit with the least amount of Lippert components in critical areas. To my knowledge (and I may be incorrect) Artic Fox is the only unit of the three mentioned that uses in-house manufactured frames. I consider the frame a fairly important area of concern.....arguably, the “cornerstone” of the unit. memtb

x2. Been a member of the NW forum for almost 7 years until just recently when we moved to an ORV product. I don't remember reading about frame issues. I may have but if so it would of only been 1-2 in that 7 year period.
I read about much the same issues, mostly some poor QC from NW, like some stripped screws, and a shower leak that was common in the 27-5L IIRC. They did pop out a couple lemons once in awhile.
Last thing I'd want to deal with is a frame issue on a 5er.

Reading on the Grand Design forum there's owners doing several things to help stiffen the suspension/frame are with some gussets.
It's stuff that NW has been doing for many years.

[jdc1]

dpgllg wrote:
We have a 2017 Grand Design Reflection 27RL. It was great for the first year and then things really took a turn south.

Replaced Dometic AC after 13 months. Yup 1 month out of Dometic Warranty.

Replaced entry lock.

Entire frame is covered in surface rust almost as if painted with nothing. I'm waiting on a response now from Lippert.

Replaced circuit board on hot water tank.

Grand Designs response on all but door lock. Contact manufacture of component its not our problem. We don't offer a warranty on rust.

The last phone call with Grand Design the gentleman I spoke with basically called me a liar saying I never reported any of these issues. I told him that Grand Design should consider better quality components and he laughed.

Grand Design DOES NOT offer the same customer service as before being acquired by Winnebago. It is dramatically worse.

We may have got a lemon I don't know but I won't be singing the praises of Grand Design.

Dave

Grand Design was correct. They don't build any of those components...they just install them. As for the rust....maybe it has something to do with salted roads? There again...not GD's doing.

[memtb]

With the recent ( several years) trend of lowered quality control among most units manufactured, especially those with Lippert manufactured components.....I would look more favorably to the unit with the least amount of Lippert components in critical areas. To my knowledge (and I may be incorrect) Artic Fox is the only unit of the three mentioned that uses in-house manufactured frames. I consider the frame a fairly important area of concern.....arguably, the “cornerstone” of the unit. memtb

[Flapper]

I've only had a Jayco, and now a Grand Design. Both from excellent dealers.
While there are some reports of poor customer service from Grand Design, I have also seen many, many, many for outstanding service.
In my limited experience, a couple of calls to Jayco were immediately turned into a "talk to your dealer" directive. NO attempt to assist, or provide any information.
For GD, there were reports at the time with greased brakes on some units when I was waiting for my newly ordered unit to arrive at the dealer. I called, and they immediately sent me an authorization letter to give to the dealer to remove/inspect/repair as needed - this before I had actually bought the unit, and before they issued a later recall. In five different calls for information, they called me back very quickly and gave detailed answers each time. One time the rep even going out to their lot in a full-on blizzard to investigate how a unit was wired!
Last fall I called to get specific part information for a wonky thermostat. I was long out of warranty. Just wanted the mfg part number. I got an entire replacement parts kit at home, two days later!
They are well known for authorizing any certified repair place/mobile tech to work on their units (except Camping World!).
The Winnebago purchase happened several years ago, and all my contact has been subsequent to that.
They've grown really fast, for a reason. And I expect that contributes to some of the reports of less than perfect service.

Is the product itself superior? NO - as related above, they are, at best, only slightly better than the competition. But they do, generally, continue to provide superior after sale support direct to the customer.

[librty02]

I completely agree with you but unfortunately it has been that way for the last 20 years that I know of and how do we as consumers change that? We need to stop buying the products then...but with RV sales at an all time high I don't see this ending anytime soon ugh :S

[Lantley]

This idea that the RV manufactures use to pawn off the problem on the suppliers is more nonsense that us consumers have somehow accepted. The manufacturers take our money and then dismiss us to others.
If something on my trucks breaks I go back to Chevy period .
I don't want to be told check with Bosch or GM didn't make the radiator or the frame was made by others.
We need to stop accepting these ridiculous excuses for poor quality.