New guy buying his first toyhauler - have concerns

[Nlambert182]

First off, I have browsed the forums for a while now while my wife and I searched for our first toy hauler. We are not new to campers, but we are new to campers this large. We have potentially made a deal on a 2008 Coachmen Adrenaline 400DS from a dealer in Kentucky, but I am getting some cold feet on it mainly due to the size of the trailer versus my truck. I am looking for some advice on whether or not my truck can tow this trailer.

Truck: 2012 Ram crew cab 2500 4wd - 6.7 Cummins (full deletes)

Camper: 2008 Coachmen Adrenaline 400DS
Dry Weight: 12,,552 lbs
GVWR: 18,000 lbs

Our dilemma is that we have a 2016 RZR XP 1000 4 seater (1,700 lbs) that requires at least 12' of garage space to fit. My wife wants a separate living space so that when we aren't towing the RZR along we can still use it as a typical camper with the garage as a bedroom for the kids instead of having the fold out couches and seats. Around my area, the only thing that fits our budget and needs is a 5th wheel hauler.

I could really use some discussion before we make the 3 hr drive to KY to buy this thing to make sure we know what we are getting into in advance. Is this camper too much for the truck?

[Nlambert182]

tinner12002 wrote:

I think the differential is different, heavier on the dually vs your truck. I would advise a smaller RV if you intend to stay with the truck you have. Your going to do what you want but many on here are telling you that you don't have enough truck...for your safety and your families safety don't do it!

They're identical per Ram customer service. The only difference in a 2500 and 3500 is the overload spring and extra rear tires. Or at least that is what Ram says. The overload spring can be added which then makes the limiting factor the tires. Granted, even if I tried I couldn't get to the listed payload capacity of the 3500 simply because of the lack of dual rear wheels so I get that.

However, as stated before this was just to gather information so this has all been good information to read and I do appreciate it all. I'm going to continue my search for a bit lighter toyhauler to ensure I don't completely overload the truck.

Any suggestions on a used model that would fit the bill? We've exhausted our searches at this point.

[Nlambert182]

tinner12002 wrote:
A 2012 Ram dually would handle it if you can find one for sale.

It definitely would..... however I have just spent a good bit of money with my deletes and other work and I would prefer to hang onto this one if at all possible. If anything I'll find another trailer.

[tinner12002]

Nlambert182 wrote:
I've received so much conflicting information that it had me second guessing everything. I'm not new to pulling or navigating large vehicles. I've done that my entire life, however I've never spec'd out a towing combo as that part was already done for me. The safest thing that I know to do is to gather information and try to make an informed decision.

I've contacted just about everyone to try and obtain more information before making a decision. Here's what I've been told so far.

Ram (customer service, not a dealership) - The trucks are underrated on the stickers because they assume that people will see that number and try to push their limits with them. I explained my situation to the guy and he said that "unofficially" the truck should handle it just fine. Granted, not as stable as a 3500 but it has the capability. He recommended air bags or helper springs to level the truck (or to swap to a 3500 leaf spring) and advised that I lock out 6th gear and hold my rpms between 1800-2000 when towing and to monitor my temps closely. I took this with a grain of salt but it was interesting to hear nonetheless.

Firestone - Firestone (manufacturer, not shop) told me that my tires are rated at 3,196 lbs each and that the tires on the rear axle are capable of carrying around 6k lbs safely at 80psi cold. My rear GAWR is 6,010 lbs.

The reason I posed the initial question is as follows:


Dry weight of the trailer: 12,552 (per spec)
Actual weight of the RZR: 1,637 lbs
Onan 5.5KW weight: 279 lbs
Propane tank weight: 80 lbs
Battery weight: 40 lbs
30 gallon fuel station weight: 201 lbs (6.7 lbs per gallon)
150 gallon fresh water - 945 lbs (6.3 lbs per gallon)
Miscellaneous luggage, tvs, "junk": 400 lbs (estimated)
B&W Companion slider 5th wheel: 206 lb (B&W spec)

We don't intend to go off the grid, so there is no reason for us to fill the fresh water tank, however I factored it in to add some margin of error.

If I based the estimated weight of the trailer against the numbers above the total weight would be 16,134 lbs. At 20% pin weight that brings the load on the truck to 3,432 lbs. With the fresh water tank empty, the weight is 15,395 and the 20% pin weight would be 3,079.

Dodge claims the payload capacity of a 2012 Ram 3500 DRW with 3.73 gearing (same as mine) is 4,500 lbs. The only difference is an additional set of wheels and an additional leaf spring (which can be added very easily).

When stumbling upon this information it began to make me question why the ratings were so different. If I were to add a helper spring or swap to a 3500 spring set, the only difference would be the tire's capabilities. It seems to me that in theory, if the suspension is equal to the 3500 then the limiting factor is the tires and what they can support.

Just to add.... we have not pulled the trigger on this trailer. I am gathering information so that we make a wise choice. I wanted to be clear on that because it seems that this could very quickly turn into a heated discussion, which is far from my intent.

I think the differential is different, heavier on the dually vs your truck. I would advise a smaller RV if you intend to stay with the truck you have. Your going to do what you want but many on here are telling you that you don't have enough truck...for your safety and your families safety don't do it!

[tinner12002]

A 2012 Ram dually would handle it if you can find one for sale.

[Nlambert182]

I've received so much conflicting information that it had me second guessing everything. I'm not new to pulling or navigating large vehicles. I've done that my entire life, however I've never spec'd out a towing combo as that part was already done for me. The safest thing that I know to do is to gather information and try to make an informed decision.

I've contacted just about everyone to try and obtain more information before making a decision. Here's what I've been told so far.

Ram (customer service, not a dealership) - The trucks are underrated on the stickers because they assume that people will see that number and try to push their limits with them. I explained my situation to the guy and he said that "unofficially" the truck should handle it just fine. Granted, not as stable as a 3500 but it has the capability. He recommended air bags or helper springs to level the truck (or to swap to a 3500 leaf spring) and advised that I lock out 6th gear and hold my rpms between 1800-2000 when towing and to monitor my temps closely. I took this with a grain of salt but it was interesting to hear nonetheless.

Firestone - Firestone (manufacturer, not shop) told me that my tires are rated at 3,196 lbs each and that the tires on the rear axle are capable of carrying around 6k lbs safely at 80psi cold. My rear GAWR is 6,010 lbs.

The reason I posed the initial question is as follows:


Dry weight of the trailer: 12,552 (per spec)
Actual weight of the RZR: 1,637 lbs
Onan 5.5KW weight: 279 lbs
Propane tank weight: 80 lbs
Battery weight: 40 lbs
30 gallon fuel station weight: 201 lbs (6.7 lbs per gallon)
150 gallon fresh water - 945 lbs (6.3 lbs per gallon)
Miscellaneous luggage, tvs, "junk": 400 lbs (estimated)
B&W Companion slider 5th wheel: 206 lb (B&W spec)

We don't intend to go off the grid, so there is no reason for us to fill the fresh water tank, however I factored it in to add some margin of error.

If I based the estimated weight of the trailer against the numbers above the total weight would be 16,134 lbs. At 20% pin weight that brings the load on the truck to 3,432 lbs. With the fresh water tank empty, the weight is 15,395 and the 20% pin weight would be 3,079.

Dodge claims the payload capacity of a 2012 Ram 3500 DRW with 3.73 gearing (same as mine) is 4,500 lbs. The only difference is an additional set of wheels and an additional leaf spring (which can be added very easily).

When stumbling upon this information it began to make me question why the ratings were so different. If I were to add a helper spring or swap to a 3500 spring set, the only difference would be the tire's capabilities. It seems to me that in theory, if the suspension is equal to the 3500 then the limiting factor is the tires and what they can support.

Just to add.... we have not pulled the trigger on this trailer. I am gathering information so that we make a wise choice. I wanted to be clear on that because it seems that this could very quickly turn into a heated discussion, which is far from my intent.

[2001400ex]

JAC1982 wrote:

2001400ex wrote:

JAC1982 wrote:
Yeah, no.

Our neighbor has a Fuzion 341 that he pulls with his 2500 and it makes me nervous just looking at it and he has said it doesn't do the greatest... very slow going and I can't picture it being that safe. He owns a landscaping company and pulls trailers for his work on the regular so he's more comfortable with it than someone who doesn't haul for a living.

Our trailer is similar specs to yours, weight-wise (12,060 dry), only we're only 38'1" with a 12'6" garage. I don't think we'd ever want to attempt it with anything less than 1 ton. Ours is a dually which we don't absolutely need, but I'm glad we do because most our travel is here in CO and WY, both with mountains and wind. We just did a trip with it and my husband commented that you could feel it working going up a grade, although he was able to maintain 60MPH doing it. That would not be the case with a 2500.

Do you really want to put your family's safety at stake?

The powertrain between a 3/4 and a 1 ton are the same. Some 1 tons have different gear ratios, some don't. But any recent 3/4 has the powertrain to handle the weight.

Cool. I don't know the technical details, but hauling 15,000+lbs with a 2500 still sounds like a terrible idea.

Agreed. I'm about my max with 12k loaded.

[JAC1982]

2001400ex wrote:

JAC1982 wrote:
Yeah, no.

Our neighbor has a Fuzion 341 that he pulls with his 2500 and it makes me nervous just looking at it and he has said it doesn't do the greatest... very slow going and I can't picture it being that safe. He owns a landscaping company and pulls trailers for his work on the regular so he's more comfortable with it than someone who doesn't haul for a living.

Our trailer is similar specs to yours, weight-wise (12,060 dry), only we're only 38'1" with a 12'6" garage. I don't think we'd ever want to attempt it with anything less than 1 ton. Ours is a dually which we don't absolutely need, but I'm glad we do because most our travel is here in CO and WY, both with mountains and wind. We just did a trip with it and my husband commented that you could feel it working going up a grade, although he was able to maintain 60MPH doing it. That would not be the case with a 2500.

Do you really want to put your family's safety at stake?

The powertrain between a 3/4 and a 1 ton are the same. Some 1 tons have different gear ratios, some don't. But any recent 3/4 has the powertrain to handle the weight.

Cool. I don't know the technical details, but hauling 15,000+lbs with a 2500 still sounds like a terrible idea.

[2001400ex]

JAC1982 wrote:
Yeah, no.

Our neighbor has a Fuzion 341 that he pulls with his 2500 and it makes me nervous just looking at it and he has said it doesn't do the greatest... very slow going and I can't picture it being that safe. He owns a landscaping company and pulls trailers for his work on the regular so he's more comfortable with it than someone who doesn't haul for a living.

Our trailer is similar specs to yours, weight-wise (12,060 dry), only we're only 38'1" with a 12'6" garage. I don't think we'd ever want to attempt it with anything less than 1 ton. Ours is a dually which we don't absolutely need, but I'm glad we do because most our travel is here in CO and WY, both with mountains and wind. We just did a trip with it and my husband commented that you could feel it working going up a grade, although he was able to maintain 60MPH doing it. That would not be the case with a 2500.

Do you really want to put your family's safety at stake?

The powertrain between a 3/4 and a 1 ton are the same. Some 1 tons have different gear ratios, some don't. But any recent 3/4 has the powertrain to handle the weight.

[2001400ex]

Bedlam wrote:
Although there are ways to modify your 2500 to handle the pin weight, it will end up costing you about $5k. I would look for a FW around 15K lb GTWR or look into long bumper pulls. Check out some of the car trailer based units with living quarters. These are typically lighter and have more "garage".

It won't cost $5k. You can usually negotiate airbags in with the camper purchase. Or your can add leaf springs as that's the main difference between 3/4 and 1 ton (mostly, some years and models there's other differences). This is assuming you have tires that can hold the weight. My tires are 3,415 pounds a tire and higher quit rating than the stock 1 ton tires.

All they being said, unless you register with the DMV at a higher GVW, you could be held liable if something went wrong and you are over legal weight.

[JAC1982]

Yeah, no.

Our neighbor has a Fuzion 341 that he pulls with his 2500 and it makes me nervous just looking at it and he has said it doesn't do the greatest... very slow going and I can't picture it being that safe. He owns a landscaping company and pulls trailers for his work on the regular so he's more comfortable with it than someone who doesn't haul for a living.

Our trailer is similar specs to yours, weight-wise (12,060 dry), only we're only 38'1" with a 12'6" garage. I don't think we'd ever want to attempt it with anything less than 1 ton. Ours is a dually which we don't absolutely need, but I'm glad we do because most our travel is here in CO and WY, both with mountains and wind. We just did a trip with it and my husband commented that you could feel it working going up a grade, although he was able to maintain 60MPH doing it. That would not be the case with a 2500.

Do you really want to put your family's safety at stake?

[Bedlam]

Although there are ways to modify your 2500 to handle the pin weight, it will end up costing you about $5k. I would look for a FW around 15K lb GTWR or look into long bumper pulls. Check out some of the car trailer based units with living quarters. These are typically lighter and have more "garage".

[dedmiston]

ScottG wrote:
I hate to say it but not nearly enough truck unless you never haul anything.

Or a whole trailer full of helium balloons.

[mattmountz94]

I have a 2015 Ram 3500 SRW SB and tow my 42' 14k trailer with no issues what so ever. Has the cummins and Aisin trans. I am right on the limits of my trucks payload. I have been towing trailers this size though and larger with trucks for some time so i am pretty comfortable behind the wheel. I would never try to tow it with a 2500 though, let alone another possible 4k pounds.

[ScottG]

I hate to say it but not nearly enough truck unless you never haul anything.

[lincster]

Not enough truck.
My trailer is 41' and I have a F350 dually with a GCWR of 30,000lbs.
My GVWR is 13,000 lbs.
I am within all of my ratings after I weigh it on a CAT scale and compare all weights to Ford specs.