Newbie Looking for a New 5ver

[mallardtuff]

I have a 2013 F-250 supercrew 4x4 SRW, GVWR-10,000#. Put it on the scales, weighs 8,280#, that's with full tank of diesel, 2 adults, 2 kids, and 3 overnight bags. Looking for a new 5th wheel, budget is under $50,000. Pretty disappointing to realize to stay within the 10k GVWR limit I need to be looking at half ton towables. All my looking right now is on the net, and I'm having to use posted dry hitch and trailer weights by the manufacturers. Seems to me after I get a hitch (125-150#'s), I only will have about 1,600#'s for hitch weight. Couple of questions.
1) how strict is law enforcement on the 10,000GVWR limit, all towing will be in the U.S.?
2) what hitch weight can this kind of vehicle take, before there are issues? (with tires, axles, suspension parts)
3) what dry hitch weights would you recommend I be looking at and still tow safely? (I understand dry weights aren't anywhere close to actual)

I know there are a lot of people towing more than the 10,000GVWR with SRW 3/4 ton trucks. I probably saw 20 just this weekend, people towing 37-40' 5vers with a SRW 4x4 loaded out 3/4ton trucks. Any info would be great. I like some of the bunk house models, the dry hitch weights run between 1800-2050#'s.

[NC_Hauler]

caberto wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

caberto wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

lillyputz wrote:
My single axle Dodge has a rear axle rating of 11,500 lbs. with the rims and tires I had, I was maxed out at 7,500 lbs. I went to the 19.5x7.5 4,500 lb rated rims with 4,540 lb rated tires. this brought my max rear axle carring weight to 9,000 lbs. Loaded truck weight on the rear was 3,900 lbs. pin weight 4,000. Total 7,900 lbs with lots of lead way.

Lillyputz

Believe you're wrong about your rear axle weight rating...My 2013 with all new frame and front and rear suspension only has a RAWR of 9750#, and it's a dually...I doubt your truck has more RAWR than mine. My GVWR is 14,000#...

I'd look back at your real axle rate rating and if you've tried to compensate for weight by putting tires on that will handle more weight, your weak link could be your rear axle now. But I don't know what your REAL RAWR is... you don't show what model Dodge truck you have, or the year of said truck...not saying your over your trucks RAWR, but unless you've got some special rear axle, I find it hard to believe it's rated at 11,500#

I believe he was stating what his actual "axle" weight rating is, not the RAWR which is limited by the tires and wheels at 7500lbs. The actual rear axles on the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are normally the same, rated at what he stated (11,500 or something similar).

Re-read my post, I stated what you did, I don't buy into his RAWR, as I stated...you have two ratings, a GVWR ( Manufacturers recommended amount that the truck, completely loaded, should weigh no more then)...the other is the RAWR..rear axle weight rating....and I'm saying I find it hard to believe that he has a RAWR that high( 11,500#)!, when the RAWR on my 2013 Ram Dually with practically all new everything, doesn't even have a rear axle rating that high, (I have a GVWR of 14,000#, I doubt the 3/4 ton is anywhere near that) and my RAWR is 9750#...I doubt his is higher. Even if he has a 2013 Ram 2500, he doesn't have a RAWR of 11,500#)

AND, NOW, there is a huge difference in the 3/4 ton and 1 ton SRW in 13'....though the ratings went up on the 13' Ram 2500, even the Ram 3500 SRW has the all new frame and MUCH beefier suspension.....so, no comparison between a 13' 2500 HD and a 13' 3500 SRW Ram.

Bottom line, and completely off topic (sorry, my bad), IF he THINKS he has a rear axle rated to 11,500# (which I highly doubt, unless after market), AND he's added TIRES that will carry more weight than his axle can handle, due to not knowing actual weight handling of his rear axle...his axle just became the weak link...tires may carry the weight, BUT, if the axle can't handle that amount of weight.........ouch.

I don't know where he's getting his #'s from, but if he's referring to the actual "physical axle" rating (not the Rear Axle Weight Rating/RAWR of the truck) of an AAM 11.5 axle itself (which is used by GM and Dodge, don't know about Ford), the axle (not the RAWR) has been rated for almost 11,000 lbs for many years now (and has probably improved), so the weak link is the tires and wheels.

He may be mixing that # with his RAWR, don't know.

Gotcha, but that isn't the way his post read, but thanks for the translation because I sure didn't understand it. ..I'm impressed then with that particular rating, IF INDEED that is correct, because...one more time, his axle has a MUCH HIGHER rating than the axle on my 2013 3500 1 ton dually of 9750#....thus the reason I questioned his, AS HE STATED, 11,500# rear axle weight rating...I know I read it right, but that's all I'll say about it, I've hijacked the thread and didn't mean to, I actually thought the one who posted this information would come back and explained what they meant themsleves....So, my 9750# rated axle, should be MUCH more than his 11,500 weight rated axle because I doubt he has anywhere near the GVWR of 14,000# as my 13' dually has....I know I'm not the only one reading this, so why does one not understand?

How do you "assume" all this, when, like me, I have NO CLUE, the year of model of the truck he has that he is "claiming" has a Rear axle that, yes is an 11.5 AAM, and states it has an 11,500# weight carrying capacity....I don't think so.....Won't elaborate any more, until we find out what year and model truck he has, it would have to have more carrying capacity than my 13' 1 ton Dually with all new frame and suspension...I just don't know what that particular poster has...so I guess I shouldn't have said anything....

[caberto]

NC Hauler wrote:

caberto wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

lillyputz wrote:
My single axle Dodge has a rear axle rating of 11,500 lbs. with the rims and tires I had, I was maxed out at 7,500 lbs. I went to the 19.5x7.5 4,500 lb rated rims with 4,540 lb rated tires. this brought my max rear axle carring weight to 9,000 lbs. Loaded truck weight on the rear was 3,900 lbs. pin weight 4,000. Total 7,900 lbs with lots of lead way.

Lillyputz

Believe you're wrong about your rear axle weight rating...My 2013 with all new frame and front and rear suspension only has a RAWR of 9750#, and it's a dually...I doubt your truck has more RAWR than mine. My GVWR is 14,000#...

I'd look back at your real axle rate rating and if you've tried to compensate for weight by putting tires on that will handle more weight, your weak link could be your rear axle now. But I don't know what your REAL RAWR is... you don't show what model Dodge truck you have, or the year of said truck...not saying your over your trucks RAWR, but unless you've got some special rear axle, I find it hard to believe it's rated at 11,500#

I believe he was stating what his actual "axle" weight rating is, not the RAWR which is limited by the tires and wheels at 7500lbs. The actual rear axles on the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are normally the same, rated at what he stated (11,500 or something similar).

Re-read my post, I stated what you did, I don't buy into his RAWR, as I stated...you have two ratings, a GVWR ( Manufacturers recommended amount that the truck, completely loaded, should weigh no more then)...the other is the RAWR..rear axle weight rating....and I'm saying I find it hard to believe that he has a RAWR that high( 11,500#)!, when the RAWR on my 2013 Ram Dually with practically all new everything, doesn't even have a rear axle rating that high, (I have a GVWR of 14,000#, I doubt the 3/4 ton is anywhere near that) and my RAWR is 9750#...I doubt his is higher. Even if he has a 2013 Ram 2500, he doesn't have a RAWR of 11,500#)

AND, NOW, there is a huge difference in the 3/4 ton and 1 ton SRW in 13'....though the ratings went up on the 13' Ram 2500, even the Ram 3500 SRW has the all new frame and MUCH beefier suspension.....so, no comparison between a 13' 2500 HD and a 13' 3500 SRW Ram.

Bottom line, and completely off topic (sorry, my bad), IF he THINKS he has a rear axle rated to 11,500# (which I highly doubt, unless after market), AND he's added TIRES that will carry more weight than his axle can handle, due to not knowing actual weight handling of his rear axle...his axle just became the weak link...tires may carry the weight, BUT, if the axle can't handle that amount of weight.........ouch.

I don't know where he's getting his #'s from, but if he's referring to the actual "physical axle" rating (not the Rear Axle Weight Rating/RAWR of the truck) of an AAM 11.5 axle itself (which is used by GM and Dodge, don't know about Ford), the axle (not the RAWR) has been rated for almost 11,000 lbs for many years now (and has probably improved), so the weak link is the tires and wheels.

He may be mixing that # with his RAWR, don't know.

[NC_Hauler]

caberto wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

lillyputz wrote:
My single axle Dodge has a rear axle rating of 11,500 lbs. with the rims and tires I had, I was maxed out at 7,500 lbs. I went to the 19.5x7.5 4,500 lb rated rims with 4,540 lb rated tires. this brought my max rear axle carring weight to 9,000 lbs. Loaded truck weight on the rear was 3,900 lbs. pin weight 4,000. Total 7,900 lbs with lots of lead way.

Lillyputz

Believe you're wrong about your rear axle weight rating...My 2013 with all new frame and front and rear suspension only has a RAWR of 9750#, and it's a dually...I doubt your truck has more RAWR than mine. My GVWR is 14,000#...

I'd look back at your real axle rate rating and if you've tried to compensate for weight by putting tires on that will handle more weight, your weak link could be your rear axle now. But I don't know what your REAL RAWR is... you don't show what model Dodge truck you have, or the year of said truck...not saying your over your trucks RAWR, but unless you've got some special rear axle, I find it hard to believe it's rated at 11,500#

I believe he was stating what his actual "axle" weight rating is, not the RAWR which is limited by the tires and wheels at 7500lbs. The actual rear axles on the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are normally the same, rated at what he stated (11,500 or something similar).

Re-read my post, I stated what you did, I don't buy into his RAWR, as I stated...you have two ratings, a GVWR ( Manufacturers recommended amount that the truck, completely loaded, should weigh no more then)...the other is the RAWR..rear axle weight rating....and I'm saying I find it hard to believe that he has a RAWR that high( 11,500#)!, when the RAWR on my 2013 Ram Dually with practically all new everything, doesn't even have a rear axle rating that high, (I have a GVWR of 14,000#, I doubt the 3/4 ton is anywhere near that) and my RAWR is 9750#...I doubt his is higher. Even if he has a 2013 Ram 2500, he doesn't have a RAWR of 11,500#)

AND, NOW, there is a huge difference in the 3/4 ton and 1 ton SRW in 13'....though the ratings went up on the 13' Ram 2500, even the Ram 3500 SRW has the all new frame and MUCH beefier suspension.....so, no comparison between a 13' 2500 HD and a 13' 3500 SRW Ram.

Bottom line, and completely off topic (sorry, my bad), IF he THINKS he has a rear axle rated to 11,500# (which I highly doubt, unless after market), AND he's added TIRES that will carry more weight than his axle can handle, due to not knowing actual weight handling of his rear axle...his axle just became the weak link...tires may carry the weight, BUT, if the axle can't handle that amount of weight.........ouch.

[caberto]

NC Hauler wrote:

lillyputz wrote:
My single axle Dodge has a rear axle rating of 11,500 lbs. with the rims and tires I had, I was maxed out at 7,500 lbs. I went to the 19.5x7.5 4,500 lb rated rims with 4,540 lb rated tires. this brought my max rear axle carring weight to 9,000 lbs. Loaded truck weight on the rear was 3,900 lbs. pin weight 4,000. Total 7,900 lbs with lots of lead way.

Lillyputz

Believe you're wrong about your rear axle weight rating...My 2013 with all new frame and front and rear suspension only has a RAWR of 9750#, and it's a dually...I doubt your truck has more RAWR than mine. My GVWR is 14,000#...

I'd look back at your real axle rate rating and if you've tried to compensate for weight by putting tires on that will handle more weight, your weak link could be your rear axle now. But I don't know what your REAL RAWR is... you don't show what model Dodge truck you have, or the year of said truck...not saying your over your trucks RAWR, but unless you've got some special rear axle, I find it hard to believe it's rated at 11,500#

I believe he was stating what his actual "axle" weight rating is, not the RAWR which is limited by the tires and wheels at 7500lbs. The actual rear axles on the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are normally the same, rated at what he stated (11,500 or something similar).

[NC_Hauler]

mallardtuff wrote:
I have a 2013 F-250 supercrew 4x4 SRW, GVWR-10,000#. Put it on the scales, weighs 8,280#, that's with full tank of diesel, 2 adults, 2 kids, and 3 overnight bags. Looking for a new 5th wheel, budget is under $50,000. Pretty disappointing to realize to stay within the 10k GVWR limit I need to be looking at half ton towables. All my looking right now is on the net, and I'm having to use posted dry hitch and trailer weights by the manufacturers. Seems to me after I get a hitch (125-150#'s), I only will have about 1,600#'s for hitch weight. Couple of questions.
1) how strict is law enforcement on the 10,000GVWR limit, all towing will be in the U.S.?
2) what hitch weight can this kind of vehicle take, before there are issues? (with tires, axles, suspension parts)
3) what dry hitch weights would you recommend I be looking at and still tow safely? (I understand dry weights aren't anywhere close to actual)

I know there are a lot of people towing more than the 10,000GVWR with SRW 3/4 ton trucks. I probably saw 20 just this weekend, people towing 37-40' 5vers with a SRW 4x4 loaded out 3/4ton trucks. Any info would be great. I like some of the bunk house models, the dry hitch weights run between 1800-2050#'s.

2500 or 3/4 ton trucks are only SRW trucks....IF your GVWR is 10,000# and your truck weighs 8200#, then it leaves you 1800# for pin weight, that's without nothing else in the truck...but, as alluded to earlier, a lot of people ignore GVWR and use their RAWR, which would probably make you OK...

PLEASE ignore "dry hitch weight" and "empty" or "dry" GVW of the 5er....PLEASE use the 5er's GVW to determine what your probable hitch weight will be...take 20% of the GVW of the 5er and that will be FAR more realistic to use as a "ball park" to how much pin weight you'll put in the bed of your truck. Bottom line, it's your call how much you want to go over the trucks GVWR and dig into your RAWR...a lot do it, no big deal, you just don't want to use it all up..me, I'm one of those 'weight police" guy's who try's to err to the side of going by what is recommended....

Just because people tow well over there trucks ratings, doesn't make it right or safe.. but also, I don't see officers pulling people over to weigh them...so it's your decision, your money, your family..

[NC_Hauler]

lillyputz wrote:
My single axle Dodge has a rear axle rating of 11,500 lbs. with the rims and tires I had, I was maxed out at 7,500 lbs. I went to the 19.5x7.5 4,500 lb rated rims with 4,540 lb rated tires. this brought my max rear axle carring weight to 9,000 lbs. Loaded truck weight on the rear was 3,900 lbs. pin weight 4,000. Total 7,900 lbs with lots of lead way.

Lillyputz

Believe you're wrong about your rear axle weight rating...My 2013 with all new frame and front and rear suspension only has a RAWR of 9750#, and it's a dually...I doubt your truck has more RAWR than mine. My GVWR is 14,000#...

I'd look back at your real axle rate rating and if you've tried to compensate for weight by putting tires on that will handle more weight, your weak link could be your rear axle now. But I don't know what your REAL RAWR is... you don't show what model Dodge truck you have, or the year of said truck...not saying your over your trucks RAWR, but unless you've got some special rear axle, I find it hard to believe it's rated at 11,500#

[stickdog]

mallardtuff wrote:
I really appreciate all the comments. Some very different approaches to the situation at hand. Just a FYI my drive axle weight was 3360# and my steer axle was 4920#. My RAWR is 6,100#'s and the tires are rated for 3750#'s @ 80psi (E rated). From what I'm gathering, it seems I shouldn't be too concerned about being over the 10,0000 GVWR (within reason). If I went with something not over 2200# loaded hitch weight, that would put my drive axle at about 5760#'s (with hitch), gives me about a 300# cushion back there. Of course my GVWR would then be at 10,680#'s. If I'm thinking correct this would be about a 11,000# loaded 5'ver. Please let me know if my thinking is wrong here, like I said I'm a newbie at 5'vers. Currently I'm towing a Jayco Jayflight 33RLDS TT, hitch weight around 1300#'s.

I'd say you've found the numbers you need, just weigh everything and adjust your load to keep your pin weight where you have that cushion.

[stro1965]

mallardtuff wrote:
I have a 2013 F-250 supercrew 4x4 SRW, GVWR-10,000#. Put it on the scales, weighs 8,280#, that's with full tank of diesel, 2 adults, 2 kids, and 3 overnight bags. Looking for a new 5th wheel, budget is under $50,000. Pretty disappointing to realize to stay within the 10k GVWR limit I need to be looking at half ton towables. All my looking right now is on the net, and I'm having to use posted dry hitch and trailer weights by the manufacturers. Seems to me after I get a hitch (125-150#'s), I only will have about 1,600#'s for hitch weight. Couple of questions.
1) how strict is law enforcement on the 10,000GVWR limit, all towing will be in the U.S.?
2) what hitch weight can this kind of vehicle take, before there are issues? (with tires, axles, suspension parts)
3) what dry hitch weights would you recommend I be looking at and still tow safely? (I understand dry weights aren't anywhere close to actual)

I know there are a lot of people towing more than the 10,000GVWR with SRW 3/4 ton trucks. I probably saw 20 just this weekend, people towing 37-40' 5vers with a SRW 4x4 loaded out 3/4ton trucks. Any info would be great. I like some of the bunk house models, the dry hitch weights run between 1800-2050#'s.

My 2012 F250 PSD is a supercab, otherwise pretty much the same truck. I tow a 38' KZ with a dry weight of 10,950 pounds and a pin weight of 1,890. Haven't had it on the scales yet fully loaded but I suspect I'm overweight. My truck handles it well, but I sure wouldn't want it any heavier. I have a 100 gallon fresh water tank and I can tell when it's full, I no longer pull it that way. I should have bought more truck or less trailer, I'm maxed out.

[469whj469]

You are correct, if you don't mind being over weight som e on the truck, you other number are good at what you stated.

[lillyputz]

My single axle Dodge has a rear axle rating of 11,500 lbs. with the rims and tires I had, I was maxed out at 7,500 lbs. I went to the 19.5x7.5 4,500 lb rated rims with 4,540 lb rated tires. this brought my max rear axle carring weight to 9,000 lbs. Loaded truck weight on the rear was 3,900 lbs. pin weight 4,000. Total 7,900 lbs with lots of lead way.

Lillyputz

[mallardtuff]

Looking real hard at the Laredo 302 BH fifth wheel. Think she'll tow it ok? Anybody have opinions regarding Laredo or similar models I need to look at? Thanks for your help.

[mallardtuff]

I really appreciate all the comments. Some very different approaches to the situation at hand. Just a FYI my drive axle weight was 3360# and my steer axle was 4920#. My RAWR is 6,100#'s and the tires are rated for 3750#'s @ 80psi (E rated). From what I'm gathering, it seems I shouldn't be too concerned about being over the 10,0000 GVWR (within reason). If I went with something not over 2200# loaded hitch weight, that would put my drive axle at about 5760#'s (with hitch), gives me about a 300# cushion back there. Of course my GVWR would then be at 10,680#'s. If I'm thinking correct this would be about a 11,000# loaded 5'ver. Please let me know if my thinking is wrong here, like I said I'm a newbie at 5'vers. Currently I'm towing a Jayco Jayflight 33RLDS TT, hitch weight around 1300#'s.

[469whj469]

The truck is rated for 10,000 lbs and if the truck is 8,280 lbs ready to go, he has 1,720 lbs for pin weight. If you have pin weight of 2,000 lbs you are over weight for the truck.
My 2011 F250, CC, longbed, diesel, RWD, loaded and ready to go is just under 7,500 lbs. I tow a fiver that has a weight rating 9,950 lbs and if I use 20% as pin weight, 1,990 lbs plus truck ready to go of 7,500 lbs, I am 510 lbs under rating for the truck, axle weight is under and the GCWR is not even factor at 23,500 lbs. What I find some what missleading is the 16,300 lbs of fiver that the Ford ratings say that I could pull.

[caberto]

I see no one has really answered your questions specifically.

1. I have never seen or heard of anyone being pulled over or punished by law enforcement for being over the GVWR of the tow vehicle. Has anyone here?

2. This is the weight that is constantly up for debate. Some people go by the GVWR of the tow vehicle and recommend not to go over that. Some people go by the RAWR (Rear Axle Weight Rating) of the tow vehicle which in most all pickups is limited by the Max Load Capacity of the rear tires. Because most original SRW truck tires have a load rating of around 3000lbs each. The pickup's RAWR is usually between 6000 and 6100 lbs. Normally the actual weight sitting on the rear axle of an unloaded pickup is around 3000lbs, depending on what you've loaded it up with, including the 5th wheel hitch. Again, using very loose numbers, this, in turn would leave approximately 3000 lbs for hitch weight to be carried safely by the rear axle using standard tires and using the RAWR for weight capacity. Safely installing tires with higher load ratings (Load Range E for example), you can arguably raise your RAWR since the axle itself is rated for much higher weights.

3. This is up to you depending on how you go with question #2. I think if you stay within a 12K - 13K lbs loaded trailer, with not an especially heavy pin, you would be fine. That will keep your pin at around 2000lbs +/- 200 lbs, which would still be within your RAWR, that is if you choose to use the RAWR for your load capacity on the truck.