Nuts & Bolts

[logsend]

Need information from all of the seasoned Fifth Wheel owners out there. Taking off all the lipstick and mascara tell me what's the most important things to be looking at in terms of our first RV? Talk to me about insulation, talk to me about frames, tell me about the stuff that is key to making a sound RV. What size tanks are really needed? What should we do ourselves in lieu of letting the dealer do? For example are we better off letting them do the generator prep and then buying our own generator?
Thanks!

[logsend]

Thank you!

[jnharley]

To us, the bones of a 5th wheel are the most important. Find a manufacturer that has a great frame, suspension, tires, etc, and then look for a floor plan from that manufacturer. Quality means pricey though. I would be looking at Excel, NuWa (manufactured by Excel to NuWa's specs), DVR, and Lifestyle. Even used rigs from these manufacturers would be an option, I know that NuWa (Kansas RV Center) rehabs every used rig that they sell. You could even get a custom made rig from New Herizons or Forks RV but you are talking big bucks with that option. Get one with good bones and it will last a long, long time. Also, you should be able to factory order your 5th wheel and may be able to customize it to some degree. We ordered our NuWa HitchHiker from the factory and had many things changed all for price of course.

[laknox]

Traveler II wrote:

logsend wrote:
Thanks Lyle that's some seriously good info to have! We already had read to buy used by Dh is a little leery of that because he said if new ones have issues what are the used ones going to be like. We are trying hard not to get 'scared off' but it isn't easy in this pea soup industry!

Many times used RV's have had the problems taken care of.

x2. A good pre-owned RV may be =better=, in some cases, than new. 🙂 Swap in a new mattress (my DW would require that) and save a lot of bucks to start out. Gives you good experiences on both sides, and can help you narrow down what you like and don't like. Buy a nice, recent, pre-owned FW and you shouldn't lose much when you're ready to move into a new one.

Lyle

[Traveler_II]

logsend wrote:
Thanks Lyle that's some seriously good info to have! We already had read to buy used by Dh is a little leery of that because he said if new ones have issues what are the used ones going to be like. We are trying hard not to get 'scared off' but it isn't easy in this pea soup industry!

Many times used RV's have had the problems taken care of.

[logsend]

Thanks Lyle that's some seriously good info to have! We already had read to buy used by Dh is a little leery of that because he said if new ones have issues what are the used ones going to be like. We are trying hard not to get 'scared off' but it isn't easy in this pea soup industry!

[laknox]

logsend wrote:
Money is always an object isn't it and I'm not sure how the amount that we are willing to spend has anything to do with the questions I'm asking. Not trying to be rude or anything we realize that quality is going to cost more. Do we want to spend 200K on a fifth wheel no we don't, but we don't want to spend 50K on a piece of junk either 😉

It's just that we liked the open floor plans of fifth wheels. The more we looked though the more we realized that the floor plan is the least of it as mentioned by AUWing above there are tons of manufactures all snuggled together pushing out the same units under different brands and monikers. The more we read the more we realized that as an industry most accept easily the fact that they are going to spend money on something that isn't of high quality and well we won't do that if we can avoid it so here we are asking questions. 🙂

I realize that opinions are just that. However with them comes experience good or bad and first hand knowledge (One hopes) on something, that we have little of. Regardless of what model or make a person has person they know their specific insulation value and they know that it gets cold as all or they bake in the summer. They also know if their holding tanks are big enough, if they had to have a frame on a certain model year repaired or if they had horrible warranty coverage from the manufacture. They know if their type of roof leaked, if the wooden walls buckled etc. etc. etc.

All of you are more experienced with all of this, you have the knowledge on what has or hasn't worked, what is or isn't (in your opinion) good. For me, at least, asking these questions is just like going to any online review source. I'm looking to gather as much information on the product (in this case a fifth wheel rv) so that we have enough knowledge to make an informed decision. It doesn't matter if it's a $50 or a $500, 000 purchase for us, we research and read reviews because typically if something has gone wrong with the same thing over and over it's a pretty good indication that we should look elsewhere.

If I'm making no sense I'm claiming floor plan and specifications overload 😄

First off, when you're looking at dollars, remember that, as a general rule, you're likely to get about 30% off the "retail" price. I say "retail" because the dealers can sort of make up whatever "retail" price they like. I've seen virtually identical units be $3-4k different in the listed "retail" price. You almost have to do Olympic scoring with finding prices, by tossing the highest and lowest "retail" and averaging the rest. Again, this is for =identical= units. When you realize that dealers will sell for 30% off, you get some idea of just how much margin there is in these things and a more true picture of the "true" price. Some dealers will try and make up with volume, so you'll see them on the extreme low-end of things, but that's =after= negotiations. This is true in the automotive world as well, but at least you start out with a factory-set MSRP and the dealers really can't fudge those number, except by add-ons.

Second, there are a few companies that do make their own frames. Northwood comes immediately to mind, as well as several others. IMO, a big plus.

Third, your camping use will really help determine what you end up with. Personally, several very attractive FW's are right off my list because of ludicrously small holding tanks and because I like to boondock. If you don't ever plan on extended boondocking or dry camping, then tank size isn't as big a concern.

Research the hell out of what you want, but don't get so lost in the details that you inundate yourself or scare yourself out of the market. You hear of problems much more than praises, so do take that into account. Use the Search feature here (and other fora) as well as Google, and you'll find more info than you really want. 🙂

Good luck!

Lyle

[Traveler_II]

Our first fiver was a mid price rig, and if I knew what I know now I could have saved some money and bought the better one first. But at the time we really didn’t know how much we were going to use it. We found we really enjoyed RVing and travel about 6 months a year and wander all over the place. That type of travel puts lots of stress on the trailer and the mid price rig just didn’t hold up well and we were starting to have frame issues, separation of side walls and roof plus suspension problems.

We made a list of things that were important to us and starting asking other RVers and looking around to find what would best meet our needs. As already has been said, determine how you plan to RV.

[Scott16]

Like you we are planning to buy a Fifth Wheel. We have Researched a lot.
As mentioned many times in this thread, and past. Floor plans are the most important. Then frames an Insulation as you stated for winter camping.
Be sure to have Double pained windows, and heated underbellys where you tanks are located.
Some manufacuters make there own Frames in house, like mentioned Northwood and
Arctic Fox, Peterson Industies and Excel,(Also making NuWa Hitchhikers using floor plans from NuWa), and DRV all make there own Frames, there are a few more companies that make there own frames. The last two are upper price range 5ers used by Full-Timers, with lots of floor plans to choose from and will build to your wants, but again pricy.
We are looking for a two to three year old Fifth Wheel because, by one of three we mentioned, above, there is a big Depreciation cost when you buy new, the minute you drive off the lot, and a lot of the warranty issues have been worked out.
Hope this helps you in your search.
Enjoy the research its a lot of fun planning like we are.
Scott

[Gsport]

I'm on my third 5th wheel in seven years. The first one we bought we were totally pleased with, until we saw the second one. After the second, and we had a few years experience behind us we realized what we really needed/wanted. Our third, and hopefully our last has everything we wanted.
39' long, king size bed, large shower, auto leveling, residential size refrigerator, theater seating directly across from the TV, and a super good customer service when needed..
Ours is a 39' Grand Design Solitude

[goducks10]

What are you going to tow with? That will help to determine what size/weight you can tow. The heavier the better. That usually mean more insulation and thicker walls.

My wife are going your route but in a slower time frame. We already have a 5'er but nit one we would take on 2-3 month long trips. We are on our 3rd trailer and pretty much know what we would want for longer term travel.

For us it's a rear living unit with a sofa/recliners facing the tv. We have had enough of the rear living units with the tv at a 90 degree angle.

Lots of counter space. We cook 90% of the time and counter space is a must. Also a pantry. Not having a pantry would mean compromising other cabinets.

A bathroom large enough to be able to shower and get out and dry off without contorting yourself. No more corner showers either. A 48"x30" shower at minimum. Two doors into the bathroom also. With one off the bedroom and the other in the hallway. Look at how the doors open into the bathroom. Some are back a$$wards. If you're in the bedroom and need to use the bathroom some have the door opening from the stairs, which means you need to step down a stair to get in from the bathroom.

Bed slide only. No closet slides. That gives you more room in the bedroom. Also make sure there is enough room between the bed and the sliding closet doors.

Can't have enough storage. Look for as much as you can get throughout the 5'er.

As far a frames go unless you get a Arctic Fox or one of the high end units they all have Lippert.

On insulation, you need as much as possible. But be aware that there is a lot of mumbo jumbo when it comes to what a true 4 seasons 5'er really is. The use of Astrofoil is questionable at most. Some of the R values seem to be overrated. But there's not much you can do about it. Just look for the highest R values you can find. Another issue is how the 5'er is constructed in terms of air leaks. Unless you start taking off access panels or removing drawers you won't really see how they sealed all the cutouts for exterior items.

We found that we will need at least a 32-34' min to get what we want. Can't park much one that is much longer at our house so that's our limit. If it weren't and issue then we would definitely look in the 35-36' range. We don't need a 38-40' 5'er and would be a PITA to park at some of our favorite sites. Let alone traveling to unknown CG's round the country. We don't like the RV park scene at all. Way too close and usually crowded. So in our travels we stay at forest service or state park CG's.

My advive would eb to go to some RV shows and spend some time in one. Sit in all the chairs. What looks comfy isn't always comfy. Check out the whole unit by going thru the motions.

And don't let the sales guy try and sell you anything. It's rare when you can find one that's interested in what you want and not just trying to make a sale.

Check the payload ratings on your truck to make sure you're within the ratings. You don't want to get a 5'er then find out the truck is maxed out. If you haven't got the truck yet, then get the 5'er 1st and then find the truck that works. It's a lot easier to find a floor plan you like than it is to compromise cause your bound by your trucks limitations.

[logsend]

Money is always an object isn't it and I'm not sure how the amount that we are willing to spend has anything to do with the questions I'm asking. Not trying to be rude or anything we realize that quality is going to cost more. Do we want to spend 200K on a fifth wheel no we don't, but we don't want to spend 50K on a piece of junk either 😉

It's just that we liked the open floor plans of fifth wheels. The more we looked though the more we realized that the floor plan is the least of it as mentioned by AUWing above there are tons of manufactures all snuggled together pushing out the same units under different brands and monikers. The more we read the more we realized that as an industry most accept easily the fact that they are going to spend money on something that isn't of high quality and well we won't do that if we can avoid it so here we are asking questions. 🙂

I realize that opinions are just that. However with them comes experience good or bad and first hand knowledge (One hopes) on something, that we have little of. Regardless of what model or make a person has person they know their specific insulation value and they know that it gets cold as all or they bake in the summer. They also know if their holding tanks are big enough, if they had to have a frame on a certain model year repaired or if they had horrible warranty coverage from the manufacture. They know if their type of roof leaked, if the wooden walls buckled etc. etc. etc.

All of you are more experienced with all of this, you have the knowledge on what has or hasn't worked, what is or isn't (in your opinion) good. For me, at least, asking these questions is just like going to any online review source. I'm looking to gather as much information on the product (in this case a fifth wheel rv) so that we have enough knowledge to make an informed decision. It doesn't matter if it's a $50 or a $500, 000 purchase for us, we research and read reviews because typically if something has gone wrong with the same thing over and over it's a pretty good indication that we should look elsewhere.

If I'm making no sense I'm claiming floor plan and specifications overload 😄

[AUWing]

You're asking a lot of great questions.

As far as floor plans go, what size trailer are you considering? You mentioned your looked and many in a size range and "they are all the same" suggests you might have looked and several brands but it's possible they are all under the same corporate umbrella. Forest River as an example includes Cardinal, Salem, Rockwood, Sandpiper, CedarCreek, Blueridge, Wildcat, Sunseeker and several more. Thor Industries has Airstream, Heartland, Keystone and Dutchman as product families and a bunch of brands within each family. In many cases, the same floorplan with changes in lipstick and mascara make one think they are looking at competitors. You'll find regardless of manufacturer, certain sub-components are the same - fridge, furnace, stove, water heater, that sort of stuff. Others have mentioned that certain frame manufacturers command the market which is true but like any tier ll producer, manufacture per the tier l specification or will design and produce for the tier l.

So how do you get answers . . . Factory tours is one way to look beyond marketing hype and owner opinions which are good but mostly based on successful ownership of a single brand. I would suggest a tour of DRV, Jayco, Heartland & Dutchman just to name a few. DRV would be an example of a higher end build with the others being middle of the road to upper middle class.

Also know that the dealer is generally independent from the manufacturer and not always "in the know" when it comes to construction knowledge.

[Splashers3]

To the OP - You have seen a lot of great replies to the great questions you wanted opinions on.....what I haven't seen, and you haven't stated - is money no object? What is your budget, which may dictate a lot of your choices.

Did I miss your mention of the budget?

[logsend]

First thank you for the opinions!

Second my answers to your questions.
At this time we think we want to do year round camping, weather permitting. Meaning that we don't plan on taking off in a blizzard but we did actually discuss using it should the power go out in the house because of a storm. We plan on starting with weekend/extended weekend trips till we get the hang of things (and any bugs worked out, we actually figure our first weekend spent in it will be in our driveway). Then taking some one or two week trips and we plan on traveling all over the country.

To me the build of it starting at the frame and working up to the roof are important. So I know we want a good foundation and that means, good framing, insulation and sub floor material. Some we've seen use tongue and groove plywood, others some sort of particle board. What I don't know is what insulation values are standard vs. upgraded on RV's. Is the plywood exterior grade or treated to prevent mold growth? Are they using a house type wrap too? Can anyone answer that for me?

What about the roof trusses? We've seen metal and wood but which is better and will last longer. Does one flex better than the other? What should be on the roof, what's the most durable roofing product and again what insulation value should be in there?

What about the walls, again we've seen wood and metal framing and the insulation in the walls varies as well. People think insulation and they think cold but it protects against heat and help keep your cool air in too, but what we don't know is what value is standard in the RV industry vs. what is considered higher quality.

Tires are another issue! Been reading it's one of the first things a lot of folks replace to me that's nuts. You spend that much money on something you shouldn't have to replace the tires before you ever use it.

Slides have several different ways of being maneuvered, we seen aircraft type cables, we seen rack and pinion and we've read about hydraulics. How do you know which is better?

On the exterior they talk about automotive quality paint or gel coating. While it being pretty isn't important to me, the seal of it is. I don't want water getting in behind corners and doors, rusting out things I can't see, so which of these is better or is there another option that I've not found yet?

The awnings we've seen them mounted over the slide and open when the slide does other don't have that. Is this feature better for the protection of the slide from weather or just a 'neat' feature?

As for floor plans I bet we've looked at every manufacture there is in a fifth wheel in a size we want and know we can tow. They are all the same! So finding a floor plan isn't going to be near as hard as finding a manufacture that is doing a better build that's going to last. I know no single one will do all that we think they should but we'd love to come close.

As a side note, not being familiar with the industry, we figured that a company as iconic as Winnebago would have quality products. When we first started looking before we had decided on a fifth wheel we looked at some of their Class A's. We were shocked at how cheaply made the insides looked. Walking through a brand new one and seeing the trim not attached, bi-fold doors that didn't work and closet doors off their hinges really surprised me. Yes, these a little things but if you aren't paying attention to those, what do the really important things look like???