Question on Pin Weight and Toy Haulers

[miboje]

Take it easy on me - I am a female still learning about this stuff, so I apologize if this is a loaded or dumb question!

Our truck, a 2003 F-350 PSD, allows for 2100 lbs. of pin weight. The toy haulers we are considering have a pin weight of 2400 lbs.+/-. How much weight do we need to put in the garage to lighten the toy hauler's pin weight to an acceptable weight? Or is this going to be running too close to our limit?

Thank you for your help.

Bobbi

[miboje]

lincster wrote:

stsmark wrote:
To the OP, you actually have a very capable truck, it will pull up to a 36' 2 axle 5ver nicely. Yes the paper ratings don't jive but with good tires ( Load E with 3750 wt Cap ) , well maintained running gear and a level head behind the wheel you should have some fun trips.
A larger hauler I definitely recommend more truck.
Have fun

I wouldn't want a 2 axle 36' toy hauler..... Not with the weights I put inside of mine.

We won't be taking any toys, so that doesn't bother me. See, I don't want a toy hauler to haul toys - I want it for that multifunctional garage space.

We'll take our bicycles and oversize intertubes, but I really only want a toy hauler for the versatility of the garage. We need space for the kids to sleep, but I don't want to give up valuable floor space to a bunk room. The toy hauler garage affords us two queen beds, and a great, spacious hang-out area with the addition of a patio deck, and a dining room for when it rains or is a bit chilly to be outside.

[lincster]

stsmark wrote:
To the OP, you actually have a very capable truck, it will pull up to a 36' 2 axle 5ver nicely. Yes the paper ratings don't jive but with good tires ( Load E with 3750 wt Cap ) , well maintained running gear and a level head behind the wheel you should have some fun trips.
A larger hauler I definitely recommend more truck.
Have fun

I wouldn't want a 2 axle 36' toy hauler..... Not with the weights I put inside of mine.

[lincster]

broccoli2 wrote:

lincster wrote:

broccoli2 wrote:

Well,first, unless you have a DRW or a gas motor, you don't have 4.30 gears. Unless you did a swap out. Ford's SRW trucks for that year all came with 3.73 gears.
Secondly, you don't have the 26k GCWR unless you have the dually with the tow boss package. The DRW with 4.30 gears was the only truck you could get that year with the 26,000 GCWR.
If you have the diesel, your truck weighs close to 8000lbs, with full fuel and no people in it. I know, I owned a 2006 DRW and my truck was 8200lbs with full fuel, no people and my 5th wheel hitch.

So, in short, if you go by the weight ratings, that Warrior you are looking at is going to put you over the weight ratings of your truck BIG TIME!!!!

When I had my sand rail and a full load hooked up for Thanksgiving, I was at 25,980lbs. I put my rig on a CAT scale.
My trailer is not as heavy as the one you are looking at.

Yep, thats what I was looking for. Thanks for confirming all that... Now I need to find a new truck or smaller rig...
I have been trying to search for a bigger truck, Can someone post up a list of names of the trucks that can tow this thing, I'm having a hard time searching, I have a few i.e.,
1) f550
2) topkick /kodiak

No problem.

New F450 will handle that trailer with no problem. 33,000 GCWR and 13,000lbs GVWR.

A new F350 might be able to handle it, depending on how you load the trailer. New F350's have a GCWR of 30,000lbs and a GVWR of 13,000lbs.

[N-Trouble]

Bedlam wrote:
Look at some of the Northwood Mfg Desert Fox toy hauler travel trailers. They are built and insulated well. We had a Weekend Warrior prior to our truck camper. It had great capacities but the insulation was poor for colder climates. Don't be dissuaded in your purchase - Just turn your attention to vehicles that the truck will tow comfortably so you enjoy your time camping instead of dreading the drive.

But you pay for that in the form of weight which is what the OP is trying to avoid. Desert Fox trailes have to be one of the heaviest on the market for their size. Years ago I towed one of their 28ft bumper pulls behind an 04 Durmax and couldn't believe how heavy it was for the size of trailer.

[stsmark]

To the OP, you actually have a very capable truck, it will pull up to a 36' 2 axle 5ver nicely. Yes the paper ratings don't jive but with good tires ( Load E with 3750 wt Cap ) , well maintained running gear and a level head behind the wheel you should have some fun trips.
A larger hauler I definitely recommend more truck.
Have fun

[broccoli2]

lincster wrote:

broccoli2 wrote:

Well,first, unless you have a DRW or a gas motor, you don't have 4.30 gears. Unless you did a swap out. Ford's SRW trucks for that year all came with 3.73 gears.
Secondly, you don't have the 26k GCWR unless you have the dually with the tow boss package. The DRW with 4.30 gears was the only truck you could get that year with the 26,000 GCWR.
If you have the diesel, your truck weighs close to 8000lbs, with full fuel and no people in it. I know, I owned a 2006 DRW and my truck was 8200lbs with full fuel, no people and my 5th wheel hitch.

So, in short, if you go by the weight ratings, that Warrior you are looking at is going to put you over the weight ratings of your truck BIG TIME!!!!

When I had my sand rail and a full load hooked up for Thanksgiving, I was at 25,980lbs. I put my rig on a CAT scale.
My trailer is not as heavy as the one you are looking at.

Yep, thats what I was looking for. Thanks for confirming all that... Now I need to find a new truck or smaller rig...
I have been trying to search for a bigger truck, Can someone post up a list of names of the trucks that can tow this thing, I'm having a hard time searching, I have a few i.e.,
1) f550
2) topkick /kodiak

[lincster]

broccoli2 wrote:

miboje wrote:

lincster wrote:
Guess who wears the pants in the family. LOL

Hate to tell you, but if you go by tow ratings alone, and you want to stick within those tow ratings, you don't have the right truck for a big 5th wheel toyhauler.

You won't offset the pin weight by putting something in the garage, especially if you tow with full water.

My empty pin weight on my trailer is 2600lbs.
I put a 2700lb sand rail in my toy hauler, but with full water, my pin weight actually goes up to 3400lbs. It also depends on where your water tanks are located.

So, if you want to live by the tow ratings, you need to be looking at a bumper pull trailer.

I had a 2004 SRW F350, but once I ordered my 5th wheel, I proceeded to trade my truck in on a Dually. I am one of those people that go by tow ratings, so having the correct truck for my trailer was important to me.

When it comes to money, I am the practical, wise and frugal one. So yes, I wear the pants when it comes to spending and money management.

I have been looking at the bumper pull toy haulers. Thank you for that advice. We don't want one of the land yacht toy haulers.

Like I said, we are still in the learning process, so it's wise to ask questions, which is what I am doing here. We do understand at this point that we won't be able to offset the pin weight enough to make a difference.

We did wonder about the water tanks and how that would affect things as well. Thank you for your input on that.

I'm glad that you are in a financial position to manage being able to order a new fifth wheel, then turn right around and trade up to bigger truck. For us, that would be two sizable monthly payments on top of a sizable mortgage that I don't feel is a wise choice for us. Not everyone is in that position, though. We're just an average, middle class family. I guess we don't quite fit in.

Hi There, I saw this post and was hoping you would not take offense but, figured you might. I have been around this forum a long time and I can pretty much guarantee he did not mean to offend but to put a smile on a few faces. that being said, we are here to help and ask questions don't let anyone's post send you away. You are doing the correct thing and asking the correct questions. Most of us here can not go out and buy a new TV, a few can. I seam to be in the same place you are asking the same questions and I have been RVing for many years. I know I can't tow the rig I want but what someone else to verify so i don't give up with out some sort of back up...
FYI this might work for me you might be able to do something similar.. I found a F550 that is 2 years older than my current tow vehicle that is worth about the same.. I might try and sell my F350 and get the F550.

I don't mean to offend anyone, I just speak facts and numbers from my learnings over the years. Sometimes, folks don't like to hear those actual numbers/facts/weights.
On the other hand, I have gotten plenty of PMs over the years thanking me for providing these numbers as it caused some folks to change their thinking on the truck/trailer they were ready to buy.

[lincster]

broccoli2 wrote:
Trying not to hijack this thread but I am in the same predicament. I have an 07 f350 SRW 4x4 crew cab. I bought this to tow my 32 foot WW bumper pull. Towed it with no problems. I sold that and I've had a class A for the last few years, sold that and now found the perfect 09 WW CLD 4005. I was pretty much ready to go pick it up when it dawned on me that it's pretty heavy. 18,000 pounds with a 2800lb pin weight. I'm having a pretty hard time figuring out what my 07 can handle. What I've found. With 4:30 gears I have a 26k gcwr I have not weighed my truck since I had the bumper pull years ago, I would think its at least 6k. That leaves 20k. Is that to close? I see these trucks pull these massive toy haulers all the time. What can I do to my truck short of adding wheels can I do

Well,first, unless you have a DRW or a gas motor, you don't have 4.30 gears. Unless you did a swap out. Ford's SRW trucks for that year all came with 3.73 gears.
Secondly, you don't have the 26k GCWR unless you have the dually with the tow boss package. The DRW with 4.30 gears was the only truck you could get that year with the 26,000 GCWR.
If you have the diesel, your truck weighs close to 8000lbs, with full fuel and no people in it. I know, I owned a 2006 DRW and my truck was 8200lbs with full fuel, no people and my 5th wheel hitch.

So, in short, if you go by the weight ratings, that Warrior you are looking at is going to put you over the weight ratings of your truck BIG TIME!!!!

When I had my sand rail and a full load hooked up for Thanksgiving, I was at 25,980lbs. I put my rig on a CAT scale.
My trailer is not as heavy as the one you are looking at.

[miboje]

Bedlam wrote:
Since you already have the tow vehicle, what about looking at a car hauler style FW that has living quarters up front? I looked at InTech, Millennium and FeatherLite because they use an aluminum chassis and smaller draft behind your truck. These are more expensive since the construction is aluminum instead of steel, but it gives you the biggest unit for the minimum weight. Race Junkies could be a source for used models.

http://www.racejunkies.com/

I had looked at those. I'm going to look again to be sure I didn't miss anything. I even looked at horse trailers with living quarters.

The haulers are sort of missing the things a fifth wheel toy hauler usually offers that are important to us, such as an additional bedroom, which also converts to a living room and dining room without giving up floor space for each of those separately. Plus, from what I did see, they tend to not offer slide-outs making space tight for 5 of us.

[Bedlam]

Since you already have the tow vehicle, what about looking at a car hauler style FW that has living quarters up front? I looked at InTech, Millennium and FeatherLite because they use an aluminum chassis and smaller draft behind your truck. These are more expensive since the construction is aluminum instead of steel, but it gives you the biggest unit for the minimum weight. Race Junkies could be a source for used models.

http://www.racejunkies.com/

[miboje]

Our '03 F-350 comes in at 7,740 with 1/4 tank of diesel, a dog, and a 200 lb. man, so I'm thinking your truck is probably heavier than 6K. It's best to find a scale and get your truck weighed loaded with people, pets, fuel and stuff you'll take in it, just as you would be taking it for camping.

haha Yea, your correct, I think I'm just avoiding doing this because I'm not sure I want to know..... Checking out some used 550's now..

I've felt your anguish!
We did also look into the F-450s an 550s. We eventually decided not to go that route because of the gear ratios and subsequent decreased fuel economy. Our truck is also used for hauling firewood and sometimes for daily driving, so fuel costs were considered. But again, I'm a tightwad...lol. I do know many people choose the 450s and 550s for heavier towing, though. I think they are a good choice. You are wise to be doing your research now and figuring out what works best for you according to your towing needs.

[broccoli2]

miboje wrote:

lincster wrote:
Guess who wears the pants in the family. LOL

Hate to tell you, but if you go by tow ratings alone, and you want to stick within those tow ratings, you don't have the right truck for a big 5th wheel toyhauler.

You won't offset the pin weight by putting something in the garage, especially if you tow with full water.

My empty pin weight on my trailer is 2600lbs.
I put a 2700lb sand rail in my toy hauler, but with full water, my pin weight actually goes up to 3400lbs. It also depends on where your water tanks are located.

So, if you want to live by the tow ratings, you need to be looking at a bumper pull trailer.

I had a 2004 SRW F350, but once I ordered my 5th wheel, I proceeded to trade my truck in on a Dually. I am one of those people that go by tow ratings, so having the correct truck for my trailer was important to me.

When it comes to money, I am the practical, wise and frugal one. So yes, I wear the pants when it comes to spending and money management.

I have been looking at the bumper pull toy haulers. Thank you for that advice. We don't want one of the land yacht toy haulers.

Like I said, we are still in the learning process, so it's wise to ask questions, which is what I am doing here. We do understand at this point that we won't be able to offset the pin weight enough to make a difference.

We did wonder about the water tanks and how that would affect things as well. Thank you for your input on that.

I'm glad that you are in a financial position to manage being able to order a new fifth wheel, then turn right around and trade up to bigger truck. For us, that would be two sizable monthly payments on top of a sizable mortgage that I don't feel is a wise choice for us. Not everyone is in that position, though. We're just an average, middle class family. I guess we don't quite fit in.

Hi There, I saw this post and was hoping you would not take offense but, figured you might. I have been around this forum a long time and I can pretty much guarantee he did not mean to offend but to put a smile on a few faces. that being said, we are here to help and ask questions don't let anyone's post send you away. You are doing the correct thing and asking the correct questions. Most of us here can not go out and buy a new TV, a few can. I seam to be in the same place you are asking the same questions and I have been RVing for many years. I know I can't tow the rig I want but what someone else to verify so i don't give up with out some sort of back up...
FYI this might work for me you might be able to do something similar.. I found a F550 that is 2 years older than my current tow vehicle that is worth about the same.. I might try and sell my F350 and get the F550.

[miboje]

lincster wrote:
Guess who wears the pants in the family. LOL

Hate to tell you, but if you go by tow ratings alone, and you want to stick within those tow ratings, you don't have the right truck for a big 5th wheel toyhauler.

You won't offset the pin weight by putting something in the garage, especially if you tow with full water.

My empty pin weight on my trailer is 2600lbs.
I put a 2700lb sand rail in my toy hauler, but with full water, my pin weight actually goes up to 3400lbs. It also depends on where your water tanks are located.

So, if you want to live by the tow ratings, you need to be looking at a bumper pull trailer.

I had a 2004 SRW F350, but once I ordered my 5th wheel, I proceeded to trade my truck in on a Dually. I am one of those people that go by tow ratings, so having the correct truck for my trailer was important to me.

When it comes to money, I am the practical, wise and frugal one. So yes, I wear the pants when it comes to spending and money management.

I have been looking at the bumper pull toy haulers. Thank you for that advice. We don't want one of the land yacht toy haulers.

Like I said, we are still in the learning process, so it's wise to ask questions, which is what I am doing here. We do understand at this point that we won't be able to offset the pin weight enough to make a difference.

We did wonder about the water tanks and how that would affect things as well. Thank you for your input on that.

I'm glad that you are in a financial position to manage being able to order a new fifth wheel, then turn right around and trade up to bigger truck. For us, that would be two sizable monthly payments on top of a sizable mortgage that I don't feel is a wise choice for us. Not everyone is in that position, though. We're just an average, middle class family. I guess we don't quite fit in.

[broccoli2]

miboje wrote:

broccoli2 wrote:
Trying not to hijack this thread but I am in the same predicament. I have an 07 f350 SRW 4x4 crew cab. I bought this to tow my 32 foot WW bumper pull. Towed it with no problems. I sold that and I've had a class A for the last few years, sold that and now found the perfect 09 WW CLD 4005. I was pretty much ready to go pick it up when it dawned on me that it's pretty heavy. 18,000 pounds with a 2800lb pin weight. I'm having a pretty hard time figuring out what my 07 can handle. What I've found. With 4:30 gears I have a 26k gcwr I have not weighed my truck since I had the bumper pull years ago, I would think its at least 6k. That leaves 20k. Is that to close? I see these trucks pull these massive toy haulers all the time. What can I do to my truck short of adding wheels can I do

Our '03 F-350 comes in at 7,740 with 1/4 tank of diesel, a dog, and a 200 lb. man, so I'm thinking your truck is probably heavier than 6K. It's best to find a scale and get your truck weighed loaded with people, pets, fuel and stuff you'll take in it, just as you would be taking it for camping.

haha Yea, your correct, I think I'm just avoiding doing this because I'm not sure I want to know..... Checking out some used 550's now..

[Bedlam]

Your truck has the same 9750 lb axle as mine, but 7000 lb rear suspension and wheels. I suspect the rear is about 3000 lbs empty before you load the people gear and pin weight. You could add taller bump stops to your overload springs and 19.5" wheels to get the full capacity out of the axle and some reserve on your tires, but you will have to decide if it is a safe combination for you. I suspect the actual pin weight on that fifth wheel will be closer 4500 lbs when loaded for camping.

My truck is an extended cab diesel and weighs about 7500 lbs - A crew cab weighs about 500 lbs more, long beg adds another 100 lbs and gasoline engine removes 500 lbs to help you get a rough idea of what yours weighs. My GCWR is 23K lbs with 3.73 gears.