Stability

[Coach-man]

I have a Dodge 2500, and pull my Grand Design Solitude. I know I am pushing the limits of the 2500, and have been worried about high wind conditions. Today, we left PA, heading South, back home on I 81. Heavy cross winds, 30 plus MPH, with blowing snow. Yes I could feel the gusts, but had absolutley no problems going down the road. I managed to keep up to the speed limit. There was a post about black ice, that I constantly kept thinking about as I was driving down the road. But, again I felt confident driving the old Dodge!

[transamz9]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that most DRW truck fans try to push the two extra tires on the rear as the greatest thing since the plow when in reality it's just a very small part of the equation. They act like there is no better towing experience than towing with a dually. Hook a class 8 truck to it then post you opinion. I mean if you are going to come on a forum and tell someone that that they have an inferior truck then go get yourself a real truck so you can make that claim for real.

[transamz9]

transamz9 wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
I thought about these types of threads the other day while driving to work with 30-40 mph sidewind gusts blowing me all over my lane. I was in my DRW truck. I just couldn't believe my eyes because there was SRW trucks still on the road everywhere. I don't know how they were staying on the road.

Think we were talking about when towing, and not exaggerating examples.....I've felt wind buffet my truck, but never experienced one blowing me all over or out of my lane with either a SRW truck or the Dually when empty.. I've noticed more stability with the dually versus SRW when towing on curvy mountainous roads...that's been more of my personal experience.

I towed with SRW vehicles from 75 through 2005 and purchased my first dually in mid 05' ONLY because I went to a heavier 5er...THAT'S when I noticed the difference on the many curvy mountainous roads I tow on...All trucks will get buffeted by wind and if you're towing, it'll be even more noticeable, I just feel with rear wide stance and 4 wheels on the ground with the dually, it offers a more "solid" or "stable" towing experience...certainly something that not only I noticed, but also my wife felt the difference when towing...Don't think she's just making it up, nor am I...

So the additional spring and sway bar don't make it feel more stable? It's all just adding two tires. The way these threads always read it's the 4 tires on the back that makes the difference. I guarantee my 2013 feels as stable as a dually with the same payload capacity. The center of gravity is not that much different btw a DRW and SRW.

BTW, I was towing.

[transamz9]

NC Hauler wrote:

transamz9 wrote:
I thought about these types of threads the other day while driving to work with 30-40 mph sidewind gusts blowing me all over my lane. I was in my DRW truck. I just couldn't believe my eyes because there was SRW trucks still on the road everywhere. I don't know how they were staying on the road.

Think we were talking about when towing, and not exaggerating examples.....I've felt wind buffet my truck, but never experienced one blowing me all over or out of my lane with either a SRW truck or the Dually when empty.. I've noticed more stability with the dually versus SRW when towing on curvy mountainous roads...that's been more of my personal experience.

I towed with SRW vehicles from 75 through 2005 and purchased my first dually in mid 05' ONLY because I went to a heavier 5er...THAT'S when I noticed the difference on the many curvy mountainous roads I tow on...All trucks will get buffeted by wind and if you're towing, it'll be even more noticeable, I just feel with rear wide stance and 4 wheels on the ground with the dually, it offers a more "solid" or "stable" towing experience...certainly something that not only I noticed, but also my wife felt the difference when towing...Don't think she's just making it up, nor am I...

So the additional spring and sway bar don't make it feel more stable? It's all just adding two tires. The way these threads always read it's the 4 tires on the back that makes the difference. I guarantee my 2013 feels as stable as a dually with the same payload capacity. The center of gravity is not that much different btw a DRW and SRW.

[NC_Hauler]

transamz9 wrote:
I thought about these types of threads the other day while driving to work with 30-40 mph sidewind gusts blowing me all over my lane. I was in my DRW truck. I just couldn't believe my eyes because there was SRW trucks still on the road everywhere. I don't know how they were staying on the road.

Think we were talking about when towing, and not exaggerating examples.....I've felt wind buffet my truck, but never experienced one blowing me all over or out of my lane with either a SRW truck or the Dually when empty.. I've noticed more stability with the dually versus SRW when towing on curvy mountainous roads...that's been more of my personal experience.

I towed with SRW vehicles from 75 through 2005 and purchased my first dually in mid 05' ONLY because I went to a heavier 5er...THAT'S when I noticed the difference on the many curvy mountainous roads I tow on...All trucks will get buffeted by wind and if you're towing, it'll be even more noticeable, I just feel with rear wide stance and 4 wheels on the ground with the dually, it offers a more "solid" or "stable" towing experience...certainly something that not only I noticed, but also my wife felt the difference when towing...Don't think she's just making it up, nor am I...

[Searching_Ut]

fj12ryder wrote:

Searching_Ut wrote:
Glad you had a great trip there coach-man. Personally I worry much more about deep wet slushy snow than I do black ice. Deep slush when hit a speed can jerk you around leading to sliding where ice just significantly reduces traction and changes the handling of the vehicle. If you've practiced ice driving a lot you learn to handle the vehicle to where you should never loose control on ice in most conditions on major roads. As mentioned, excess speed greatly affects potential outcomes.

As for the Dually argument: Suspensions designed for heavy weights sway and wallow less under load than overloaded suspensions, but handle many other situations worse. A 3/4 ton truck handles much worse on a windy mountain road empty than a half ton does, and a 1 ton is a pain in the tush under the same conditions. An empty dually in snow doesn't get as good of traction as a SRW, and on rutted dirt roads DRW are a real pain, and if you're really unlucky you get something stuck between the wheels and cut up the sidewalls. I've only ever owned 1 DRW truck, and that was enough for me. All trucks are compromises, but the dually had more than I was willing to make for what I use a truck for.

There's a pretty big difference between regular ice and "black ice". With "black ice" there is no control because there is no connection between your wheels and a solid surface for the wheels/tires to work with. I've driven on ice lots and it's a not a big deal if you have some experience with it. All the experience in the world will not help with "black ice".

All the points you mentioned about a dually may be true, but we are talking tow vehicles here. This is the 5th wheel forum and we assume that you're using that dually to pull a 5th wheel, not as a grocery getter. If it works well as a tow vehicle you put up with it's imperfections in other areas.

Black ice is just a "wet" ice, reduced traction not complete loss. Quick lock into 4X4 to help with the understeer and you should be able to keep things on the road unless you were unlucky enough to be caught on a curve were you have enough momentum towards the outside of the curve to deal with given the reduced traction. Of course if you have to stop, all bets are off. My own thoughts on black ice being particularly bad is because it catches folks off guard, and straight up most Americans aren't particularly good drivers when it comes to actual vehicle control. They tend to be pretty quick on brakes though so all isn't lost.

I'll give you the towing issue, but again trucks are compromises, and the OP was pleased with the way his handled his rig in the wind. Many of us tow to get to a destination, and then are stuck with the tow vehicle as our daily use vehicle once at your location. For 5ers under 16k or so newer SRV vehicles work great and tend to be nice and solid, especially with the factory airbags you can get them with now. Why put up with the downsides of a dually unless you absolutely have to? Even a SRW diesel tends to have a lot of downsides, personally much more compromise and I switch back to a class A and a toad.

[DirtyOil]

TXiceman wrote:
Most of the folks that say that they is no difference in stability with a SRW or a DRW have NEVER towed in windy conditions with a DRW.

Got to love one RV owners and experience.

Ken

Myself and a fellow RV transporter were picking identical TT (Jayco-Jay Flight 32TSBH m/t weight 8075 and 35"8" long), neither one of us using WD or stabilizers and heading to the same dealer. Going through Minnesota, North Dakota and into Saskatchewan we experienced winds gusting up to 50mph(when they get that high we pull off the Hwy). Anyways, I followed him for the majority of the trip, I as you can see in my sig... I drive a short box SRW 3500, he had a long box DRW 350/3500(not gonna start any brand wars) while driving on his six he was being pushed around as much or dare I say... worse then I was. Tires, maybe? Or issues with steering components on his truck, maybe. But being a DRW and longer wheel base, you would think he would have been much more stable? So, I'll call BS on the guys with the training wheels being any more stable in cross winds then a SRW. Argument about blowing a rear tire no different then blowing a front tire or a trailer tire whether it's in a DRW or a SRW... it's gonna be a pain in the rear!

[BB_TX]

transamz9 wrote:
I thought about these types of threads the other day while driving to work with 30-40 mph sidewind gusts blowing me all over my lane. I was in my DRW truck. I just couldn't believe my eyes because there was SRW trucks still on the road everywhere. I don't know how they were staying on the road.

:B

[fj12ryder]

Searching_Ut wrote:
Glad you had a great trip there coach-man. Personally I worry much more about deep wet slushy snow than I do black ice. Deep slush when hit a speed can jerk you around leading to sliding where ice just significantly reduces traction and changes the handling of the vehicle. If you've practiced ice driving a lot you learn to handle the vehicle to where you should never loose control on ice in most conditions on major roads. As mentioned, excess speed greatly affects potential outcomes.

As for the Dually argument: Suspensions designed for heavy weights sway and wallow less under load than overloaded suspensions, but handle many other situations worse. A 3/4 ton truck handles much worse on a windy mountain road empty than a half ton does, and a 1 ton is a pain in the tush under the same conditions. An empty dually in snow doesn't get as good of traction as a SRW, and on rutted dirt roads DRW are a real pain, and if you're really unlucky you get something stuck between the wheels and cut up the sidewalls. I've only ever owned 1 DRW truck, and that was enough for me. All trucks are compromises, but the dually had more than I was willing to make for what I use a truck for.

There's a pretty big difference between regular ice and "black ice". With "black ice" there is no control because there is no connection between your wheels and a solid surface for the wheels/tires to work with. I've driven on ice lots and it's a not a big deal if you have some experience with it. All the experience in the world will not help with "black ice".

All the points you mentioned about a dually may be true, but we are talking tow vehicles here. This is the 5th wheel forum and we assume that you're using that dually to pull a 5th wheel, not as a grocery getter. If it works well as a tow vehicle you put up with it's imperfections in other areas.

[transamz9]

I thought about these types of threads the other day while driving to work with 30-40 mph sidewind gusts blowing me all over my lane. I was in my DRW truck. I just couldn't believe my eyes because there was SRW trucks still on the road everywhere. I don't know how they were staying on the road.

[NC_Hauler]

Lantley wrote:

Coach-man wrote:
I appreciate your comments on Black ice, however with temps hovering between 9 and 14 I don't think black ice would be an issue. Also, in 50 plus years of driving, I have always tried to stay within 10 MPH of the prevailing traffic. I.e. Speed limit 65, majority of cars/trucks going 70, I would not drive less than 60.

I believe, the DRW stability is phycological. I have never had an issue passing, or being passed by trucks. I related my experience because it was the most cross winds I have ever felt towing my 5th wheel! The performance of my 2500 Dodge was far above what I was expecting, yes I have read all the "DRW stability posts" and was expecting a white knuckle experience, but was pleasantly surprised.

Drive a dually you will experience the difference. It is not psychological.
Dually drivers are not brainwashed!
The wider stance and additional rubber on the road makes a difference simple physics it's not psycho magic!

EXACTLY:)

[Searching_Ut]

Glad you had a great trip there coach-man. Personally I worry much more about deep wet slushy snow than I do black ice. Deep slush when hit a speed can jerk you around leading to sliding where ice just significantly reduces traction and changes the handling of the vehicle. If you've practiced ice driving a lot you learn to handle the vehicle to where you should never loose control on ice in most conditions on major roads. As mentioned, excess speed greatly affects potential outcomes.

As for the Dually argument: Suspensions designed for heavy weights sway and wallow less under load than overloaded suspensions, but handle many other situations worse. A 3/4 ton truck handles much worse on a windy mountain road empty than a half ton does, and a 1 ton is a pain in the tush under the same conditions. An empty dually in snow doesn't get as good of traction as a SRW, and on rutted dirt roads DRW are a real pain, and if you're really unlucky you get something stuck between the wheels and cut up the sidewalls. I've only ever owned 1 DRW truck, and that was enough for me. All trucks are compromises, but the dually had more than I was willing to make for what I use a truck for.

[Lantley]

Coach-man wrote:
I appreciate your comments on Black ice, however with temps hovering between 9 and 14 I don't think black ice would be an issue. Also, in 50 plus years of driving, I have always tried to stay within 10 MPH of the prevailing traffic. I.e. Speed limit 65, majority of cars/trucks going 70, I would not drive less than 60.

I believe, the DRW stability is phycological. I have never had an issue passing, or being passed by trucks. I related my experience because it was the most cross winds I have ever felt towing my 5th wheel! The performance of my 2500 Dodge was far above what I was expecting, yes I have read all the "DRW stability posts" and was expecting a white knuckle experience, but was pleasantly surprised.

Drive a dually you will experience the difference. It is not psychological.
Dually drivers are not brainwashed!
The wider stance and additional rubber on the road makes a difference simple physics it's not psycho magic!

[Coach-man]

I appreciate your comments on Black ice, however with temps hovering between 9 and 14 I don't think black ice would be an issue. Also, in 50 plus years of driving, I have always tried to stay within 10 MPH of the prevailing traffic. I.e. Speed limit 65, majority of cars/trucks going 70, I would not drive less than 60.

I believe, the DRW stability is phycological. I have never had an issue passing, or being passed by trucks. I related my experience because it was the most cross winds I have ever felt towing my 5th wheel! The performance of my 2500 Dodge was far above what I was expecting, yes I have read all the "DRW stability posts" and was expecting a white knuckle experience, but was pleasantly surprised.

[broark01]

BB_TX wrote:
There are those who keep insisting that you must have a dually for stability. Just ain't so. I have no stability issues at all with my F350 SRW and high profile 35' 5er even in high cross winds, passing trucks, and winding roads.

I had a 2013 SRW F350 pulling 35 footer through Wyoming and got hit by 40-50 MPH gusts. That SRW was not as stable as the 2015 DRW F350 that I currently have...No WAY.

[transamz9]

fj12ryder wrote:

BB_TX wrote:
There are those who keep insisting that you must have a dually for stability. Just ain't so. I have no stability issues at all with my F350 SRW and high profile 35' 5er even in high cross winds, passing trucks, and winding roads.

Unless you've driven a dually, you can't really compare because you have no basis for comparison. You may feel you're really stable, but with nothing to compare it to...

What about us that do have and tow with both and still like my SRW better.