Tire Balance

[83trekker]

So i am about to go buy some new tires for my 5th wheel, and tire shop is saying dont bother pay to have them balanced , its not necessary.

What does everybody do here? They are for 29ft 5th wheel 225-75-15

[Cummins12V98]

Les Schwab Trailer Tire no weights. Discount Tire tire has weights.

[Lynnmor]

memtb wrote:
If we’re concerned about the drum being out of balance....why not use “balance beads”? That should take care of that issue....unless it’s “very” badly out of balance! memtb

Not a believer in those, they need to reorient themselves every time the speed drops to a certain point. I asked the believers this question a long time ago: How many ounces of beads would you add to a tire that is 4 ounces out of balance with a brake drum that is 5.5 ounces out? Never got an answer. This is a real situation that I experienced. I knew the heavy spots on both and mounted with them opposed, so only 1.5 ounces of weight were required. For the bead fans, please calculate the amount needed (hint: it would be between 2 and 14 ounces).

[memtb]

If we’re concerned about the drum being out of balance....why not use “balance beads”? That should take care of that issue....unless it’s “very” badly out of balance! memtb

[cummins2014]

bpounds wrote:
My opinion, many are making way too much out of hub versus lug centric balancing. You might have a wheel bad enough to matter, but very very unlikely. And if your wheel is that bad, it is going to run OOR, and never balance well anyway. The shop would see that, and if they are any good at all, they will try to figure out why. If they slap way too much weight on one side, and you let that pass, look in the mirror.

As far as balancing or not, how would you even know if you need balancing until you've done it? And if you're going to buy the mounting and hazard insurance, balancing is going to already be included. At most shops anyway. If they try to charge extra they are just gouging you.

I have seen them more then once rotate a tire on the rim, to get it to balance out better on truck tires .. I have no problem with balancing trailer tires, but lets put it this way, I wouldn't pay extra. I understand most include balancing in the mounting, but thats generally accepted because its automotive. I just don't think I am going to get too hung up on balancing trailers tires .

Pretty sure you won't see them balanced from the factory like automotive tires, and most likely in a lot of case those tires go thousands of miles not balanced . I know mine have

[bpounds]

My opinion, many are making way too much out of hub versus lug centric balancing. You might have a wheel bad enough to matter, but very very unlikely. And if your wheel is that bad, it is going to run OOR, and never balance well anyway. The shop would see that, and if they are any good at all, they will try to figure out why. If they slap way too much weight on one side, and you let that pass, look in the mirror.

As far as balancing or not, how would you even know if you need balancing until you've done it? And if you're going to buy the mounting and hazard insurance, balancing is going to already be included. At most shops anyway. If they try to charge extra they are just gouging you.

[MFL]

fj12ryder wrote:
FWIW, I've always balanced my motorcycle tires, and they are always, always a little bit off. However I've talked to people that have never balanced a motorcycle tire and swear that they have never needed to. Seems to me that it would be unlikely that I'm the only person buying tires that need a little weight to be balanced.

I think the difference in motorcycle tire balancing need, is the speed you ride. A guy chugging along on his Harley at 60 mph may not need tire balancing, while you/me running often times triple digits, a tire slightly out of balance, will be noticeable.

IMO, trailer tires do not need balancing for this very reason. Not many towing a trailer at speeds over 65. I also agree with others, that if you don't balance trailer wheels/tires properly, many shops don't, you are better off to not balance them at all.

Jerry

[JIMNLIN]

The more I think about balancing trailer wheels , and reading this thread ,the more I question the wisdom of doing so . I never balance utility trailers . And I know for a fact I’ve never had a fifth wheel balanced lug centric , always hub centric . Although none of them have been steel wheels .

This bit from North American Trailer MFG on the issue;
NATM clicky

Lots of new gen tire dealers out here that don't deal with very many customers with road trailers and haven't learned from their customer base what works best for trailers that see lots of hiway miles. Most of their customers are folks like lawn service trailers or rv owners that never actually wear a tire out before they time out. When you put 50k-55k miles on a set of tires and use maybe two sets a year you soon learn about EXPERIENCED truck tire dealers vs a new guy tire shop down the street.

[fj12ryder]

FWIW, I've always balanced my motorcycle tires, and they are always, always a little bit off. However I've talked to people that have never balanced a motorcycle tire and swear that they have never needed to. Seems to me that it would be unlikely that I'm the only person buying tires that need a little weight to be balanced.

[cummins2014]

Huntindog wrote:
It is an adaptor that holds the rim by the lug holes
It has a center hole for attaching it to the balancing machine

Most trailer rims need to be balanced this way as they are lug centric not hub centric
Tire shops hate to use them if they even have them

The more I think about balancing trailer wheels , and reading this thread ,the more I question the wisdom of doing so . I never balance utility trailers . And I know for a fact I’ve never had a fifth wheel balanced lug centric , always hub centric . Although none of them have been steel wheels .

[Cummins12V98]

Huntindog wrote:
It is an adaptor that holds the rim by the lug holes
It has a center hole for attaching it to the balancing machine

Most trailer rims need to be balanced this way as they are lug centric not hub centric
Tire shops hate to use them if they even have them

Thanks!

Makes sense!

[Huntindog]

Mike134 wrote:
The machinist in me things the argument of how to mount the tires while balancing is not relevant. I would expect the lug holes to be as accurately stamped into the rims as your steel rims from any of the auto manufacturers in relation to the center hole. The attached article maybe of interest.

https://www.machinedesign.com/fastening-joining/article/21832042/whats-the-difference-between-lugcentric-and-hubcentric-wheels

You can understand after reading this why it's so important to make sure you check the torque on the lug nuts.

I would also expect that from any auto manufacturer

But we are talking about the RV trailer industry here
Big difference

[Bird_Freak]

Balance and find a new tire store.

[Huntindog]

This can be the case for aftermarket auto rims as well
For several years I fought balance issues on my 73 Blazer
Tire shop blamed it on everything else
When I read here about trailer rims
A lightbulb went off
I requested they use a lug plate
That fixed it for good

[time2roll]

Cummins12V98 wrote:

time2roll wrote:
Not just balanced but I make them use the lug centric hold down.

Please explain what that is???

Most use hub centric where a cone goes in the center hole to center the wheel on the balancer. Most aluminum wheels are pretty good but many steel wheels just have a punched hole that is not perfectly centered.

Lug centric uses an adapter that centers the wheel using the lug holes that have a taper to them and center the wheel same as it is mounted on the vehicle. This method will not have any chance of off-center based on that center hole.

Many cars and trucks have oem wheels that use a machined center hole that fits snug on the hub and these are fine for the hub centric cone. So the shops get used to this faster method and do the same for trailers.

google may have additional info or pictures.

[fj12ryder]

I've seen the difference between balancing them correctly and not. I took the wheel to a place that balanced the wheel using the center hub, hub centric. Then I found out he had balanced it that way, and I took it to a place that could balance it using the lugs, lug centric. The difference was very substantial, i.e. several ounces off.

Consider that if you try to balance a lug centric wheel where the hub is too large to be centered on the adaptor, the weight will be way off because the wheel is spinning on an eccentric, not a circle.