Tongue weight issue on new toy hauler

[Spyingeye]

Hi all, new to forums, first post. Just recently picked up a 2019 Wildwood FSX 280RT. Purchased the weight distribution hitch and had all installed from dealer. I am towing the unit with a 3/4 pickup. When I towed the unit home dry I had no problems however that all changed once I loaded the toy into the back. I have a Can am Maverick X3 with a dry weight of roughly 1700 lbs. Once I hit the highway around 55 mph and attempted a lane change, the unit swayed terribly causing me to cross all 3 lanes and almost lose it. I took the trailer and truck to a cat scale and got 3 weights. Truck, truck and trailer dry and truck and loaded trailer. I then took the unit to have it looked at by a local individual who advised the tongue weight was way under what it needed to be. The problem we found was that the toy hauler garage is 136” and the rear axle sits at 127”. This means that when you put a toy in the garage, nearly all the weight falls behind the rear axle removing a good portion of tongue weight. With all the info I contacted Forest River who came and picked up the unit and took it back to Indiana for testing. That is currently where we stand. I will say that Forest River has been quick and in constant communication throughout this process. My question is, has anyone ever experienced anything like this and what can I expect?

[nayther]

lincster wrote:
That is a 100% band aid fix.
Cheap for them.
Moving axles is not cheap for them.
Horrible service.

yep, cheap and dirty and it does decrease your load carrying capacity. They need to redo your VIN sticker too. You now have a trailer with lesser capacity than you purchased. Not sure if that has any effect on how you intend to use the trailer.

[lincster]

That is a 100% band aid fix.
Cheap for them.
Moving axles is not cheap for them.
Horrible service.

[colliehauler]

What they probably meant was it was a lot cheaper and quicker to add weight then to move the axles.

My opinion only that's BS about the axle move not fixing the problem.

[Spyingeye]

Bit of an update. I talked to them today and they said they contemplated moving the axle but realized that wasn’t going to fix the issue. Instead they added 125 lbs to the A frame on the trailer tongue. I don’t know how well this going to work but now deducts from my total GVW. They are going to bring it back to me to test out and we’ll go from there.

[valhalla360]

rhagfo wrote:

nayther wrote:
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed

Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.

This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.

5th wheels typically run 20-25% pin weight...this results in needing at least a 3/4 ton and often a 1 ton for all but the smallest 5th wheels.

A bumper pull typically runs 10-15% hitch weight. This allows moderate size trailers to be pulled with 1/2 ton trucks. If they pushed the wheels back to increase the hitch weight, people with 1/2 ton trucks would rule out their trailers...which means reduced sales because 1/2 ton trucks are drastically more popular than 3/4 & 1 ton trucks.

Of course, the downside of this compromise is hitch weight will vary substantially depending on loaded or unloaded. In a reverse of typical conditions, a truck pushing the limits may be overloaded (hitch weight) when the toy hauler is running lite with no toys.

I would be very curious to find out what the manufacture actually finds in this situation.
- Did someone mess up when calculating the weight distribution?
- Did the OP have other cargo not mentioned that threw off the weight distribution?
- Was the WDH set up correctly?
- Was there something else we can't see given the limited information provided?

[colliehauler]

lincster wrote:
Forest river has had this issue for years.
I agree about axle placement.

Did not know this. I own 2 Forest River TH TT and never had a issue. Usually loaded with motorcycles the heaviest thing was a jet ski and trailer.

[rhagfo]

twodownzero wrote:

rhagfo wrote:

nayther wrote:
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed

Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.

This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.

If that's true, the truck in the picture is massively overloaded. It has 2000 pounds of payload at most. And if so, you answered your own question--to keep from massively overloading 3/4 ton trucks.

Yep, it sure was, or is it? the only thing supporting the trailer is the jacks under the axles so we can get the tires replaced, AND the rear axle of the TV. TV had camper package and optional 265/75-16E tires.
Dodge was very lazy in those years only GVWR on the 2500 was 8,800#, manual trans and Camper package put the same springs as the 3500 DRW (NO SRW 3500 1994 to 2002), I think Dodge could have bumped up closer to 10,000# due to the heaver springs. I will state no Air Bags or other support devices installed.
It is DD's trailer, dad convinced her to get a 2004 Dodge 3500 DRW to haul it with, combo does great.
As for Dad, we also got a 2016 Ram 3500 DRW, as getting a newer 3500 SRW would be a lateral move even with a 12,300# GVWR. Both pulled and handled great.

[eHoefler]

Rover_Bill wrote:

Spyingeye wrote:

Truck only (2017 Ram 2500)
- steer axle - 4040 lb
- drive axle - 3080 lb

Truck and loaded trailer
- steer axle - 3940 lb
- drive axle - 3840 lb

IMHO, your WDH is not yet properly setup. You need to move 150-200# from your drive axle to the steering axle. The steering axle should NEVER lose weight when the loaded trailer is attached.

Steer axle is loosing too much weight, need to redo the setup for the equalizer to compensate for the loaded trailer. What works empty won't work for it loaded.

[twodownzero]

rhagfo wrote:

nayther wrote:
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed

Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.

This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.

If that's true, the truck in the picture is massively overloaded. It has 2000 pounds of payload at most. And if so, you answered your own question--to keep from massively overloading 3/4 ton trucks.

[rhagfo]

nayther wrote:
If FR has the unit then it's pretty serious. Sounds like axles are too far forward. Of course adding water, etc. to the front will help but why should you have to do that? Proper engineering is needed

Will never understand, why TH don't have axles placed like horse trailers. much closer to the rear.

This would solve the issue with being tail heavy, but could be an issue for tongue weight.
The 30' 4 horse with small living quarters trailer had about the same 2,700# pin EMPTY as our 32' 5er fully loaded at 12,500#.

[Rover_Bill]

Spyingeye wrote:

Truck only (2017 Ram 2500)
- steer axle - 4040 lb
- drive axle - 3080 lb

Truck and loaded trailer
- steer axle - 3940 lb
- drive axle - 3840 lb

IMHO, your WDH is not yet properly setup. You need to move 150-200# from your drive axle to the steering axle. The steering axle should NEVER lose weight when the loaded trailer is attached.

[lincster]

Forest river has had this issue for years.
I agree about axle placement.

[colliehauler]

Spyingeye wrote:
So the dry weight of the hauler is 5900 lbs. the CCC is 2200 lbs. I tried backing in the X3 and filing the freshwater. It’s only a 30 gallon tank, in the center of RV, so it added roughly 240 lbs. Problem is, once it’s loaded with x3, full tank and misc camping gear we come close to exceeding the GVWR. I even took 200 pounds of dumbbells that I had in my house and put them in the front pass through. Here are the weight measurements from the cat scale.

Truck only (2017 Ram 2500)
- steer axle - 4040 lb
- drive axle - 3080 lb
- gross weight - 7120 lb

Truck and dry trailer
-steer axle - 3760 lb
- drive axle - 4400 lb
- trailer axle - 4860 lb
- gross weight - 13020 lb

Truck and loaded trailer
- steer axle - 3940 lb
- drive axle - 3840 lb
- trailer axle - 7240 lb
- gross weight 15020 lb

This weight was with the X3 backed in. Based on my calculations, which may or may not be accurate, it appears the dry tongue weight is roughly 17%. When loaded, the tongue weight drops below 9%. My thoughts are that the axle placement is way too far forward on a unit that only weighs 5900 pounds and offers a CCC of 2200 pounds, especially if the majority of that weight is in the garage.

I would say your spot on with the axle to far forward. I bet that was one wild ride with the sway.

[valhalla360]

Is the weight distributing hitch installed correctly?

You are losing a good bit of weight off the front axle in the unloaded condition.

But yeah, the hitch weight seems really light when loaded.

[the_bear_II]

eHoefler wrote:
Load your SXS backwards, the rear engine will be tail heavy.

X-2