Towing a 5er while understanding weight issues.

[jffnkrn]

We have visited this before, but now that all is dialed in, here is the run down. your comments are appreciated.
2010 GMC Sierra 4X4 extended cab short bed 3:73 6.0 gas. Manual says max trailer weight 9900 lbs., GCWR 16,000 lbs. Door sticker: 9200 GVWR, 4200 GAWR front 6084 GAWR rear. So with elimination of some tool box junk and adding fifth wheel hitch actual scale weights today with full fuel, hitch and passengers is / are: front axle 3760 lbs., rear axle 3080 lbs. for a total of 6840. tires Michelin load range E max at 80 psi of 3042 per. Now the new fifth wheel: not scaled yet: shows UVWR of 8755 and GVWR of 10475 and hitch of 1675 lbs.. It is considered a light weight, but that probably doesn't matter. with our generator 130 lbs., food clothes etc. about 500 lbs. puts us just over the limits by a couple hundred pounds.according to the provided numbers on the vehicle and trailer. if I fill water and haul some firewood we are over the numbers by about 750 lbs. Now I understand just over borderline or max, but within a year or so in hopes of upgrading tow vehicle. I hope enough info: Your thoughts, comments, etc. Thanks Jeff

[laknox]

jffnkrn wrote:
Thanks for the info and the honesty. Yes we are spoiled as when we travel we haul water with us and stay off the grid as long as we can, in part so we can save some$$$. usually staying in an RV park mid week to flush and fill, do laundry etc. As far as fire wood, like to have it with us so we don't have to go looking. I guess it could be somewhat of a wash for cost for hauling extra weight or spending a few buck on the stuff we don't haul. Thanks again for the input and comments. We should be leaving in about a week to get the rig. Looking forward to it. Thanks again. Jeff

As I said earlier, we carry minimal water with us on our annual boondocker with DW's family and water down about 30 miles away from our destination. Even then, we face about a 4,000 vertical foot climb from that spot to our camp site. No point in climbing the first 2,000 feet and 100 miles with 300 extra lbs on board. 🙂 Since we're in the forest, all I carry is a chain saw, gloves and gas, so no firewood needed. 🙂

Lyle

[jffnkrn]

Thanks for the info and the honesty. Yes we are spoiled as when we travel we haul water with us and stay off the grid as long as we can, in part so we can save some$$$. usually staying in an RV park mid week to flush and fill, do laundry etc. As far as fire wood, like to have it with us so we don't have to go looking. I guess it could be somewhat of a wash for cost for hauling extra weight or spending a few buck on the stuff we don't haul. Thanks again for the input and comments. We should be leaving in about a week to get the rig. Looking forward to it. Thanks again. Jeff

[thomas201]

My experience with a ½ ton fifth wheel, on a drive to Yellowstone, from New Jersey. The 2011 Silverado was set up with the 5.3 and 3.73 gears, along with the towing package. It is a standard bed and rated for a 9600 pound trailer. Trailer was a new 2011 Wildcat.

Over the Cat scales at Flying J exit 2 in Jersey with a full freshwater tank, and loaded for a long camping trip:

Truck only:
Front 3320
Rear 2360
Gross 5680

Truck & Trailer:
Front 3180
Rear 3740
Trailer 8000
Gross 14920

Calculated:
Truck 6920
Pin 1240
Trailer 9240

So, with the truck rated at 7000, and the combined at 15000 and the trailer at 9600, I ain’t no bricks shy of a full load. This was a little high to me, so for our first journey we decided to not go to Alaska. So we dropped a second spare tire for the truck and the fresh water. Thus we dropped 400 to 450 pounds of gross weight all out of the trailer. The cost to weigh was $10.50, cheap to know as opposed to guessing.

So over the mountains we went. It pulls fine on the flat lands along the Atlantic coast. At 65 mph the transmission saw 180-190. Even with the fairly low pin weight it handled well, no swaying, just a well behaved load. Crossing the eastern continental divide from the town of Seneca Rocks, WV I had my first worry moment. Outside temp was about 80 at the bottom of the mountain. The truck pulled this steep mountain at about 30 to 40 mph, mostly in 2nd gear, with an occasional drop to 1st in the tight turns. The coolant peaked at about 240 or so, and then the temperature dropped to 220. I guess the electric fan has two speeds. Transmission fluid also hit 250 for just a moment, before dropping into the 230 to 240 range. The truck did not give a warning light. Anyone know the temperature to throw a warning and drop into the limp mode?

The tow/haul mode works sweetly going down the mountains, only an occasional use of brakes was necessary. The rest of the mountains pulled with no real drama. Topped most of them in 3rd at 40 to 50 mph. Got about 8.4 mpg on this leg from Jersey to Elkins WV.

Continuing on across the plains all was fine until the long constant pull against a strong headwind in South Dakota. With an outside temp of 105 the truck began to heat up on any extended grade. Four times the temp of the coolant climbed to 240 or so, and the transmission fluid also climbed to 221. Each time this happened, I shut down the A/C for 15 minutes and cooled everything down. The truck spent most of its time in 3rd gear under these conditions, at about 55 to 60 mph. The big headwind (maybe 40 mph) killed my mileage down to 8 even. A bigger truck would be needed to keep up with traffic. The strong headwind limited me to 4th and about 65mph on the downgrades. It would not stay in 5th, unless dropping into a river valley.

Easier pulling from Rapid City, SD to Gardiner, MT with no real headwinds. With temps in the mid 90’s the tranny held 190 to 205. Got about 9.2 mpg. Truck made it West, but I will be shopping for ¾ ton in either gas or diesel for more performance in the mountains.

On the trip East, I normally had a tailwind and cooler temperatures. Across North Dakota and through the Michigan UP, and on down to WV, mileage was in the middle nines with one whole day at 10.1. Plenty of truck for this driving.


After this trip I upgraded to a 2012 F250 with the 6.7 diesel. In 15,000 miles of towing in 13 and 14 no drama at all. The bigger brakes only were needed after the loss of trailer braking between Durango and Silverton Colorado. Ford replaced the trailer brake controller under warranty in Steamboat Springs. I like the F250 with a 10k door sticker since it gives me the towing limits I need (I like to de-rate the manufactures about 10%) and it allows me to use the left lanes and some parkways in the Northeast without the camper.

[mpfireman]

Tom_Diane wrote:
QUOTE "if I fill water and haul some firewood we are over the numbers by about 750 lbs."

Why travel with water on board? If its for in travel use then why not just use the fuel stops or just use maybe 5 or 6 gallons instead of filling it!
Consider that you cannot transport wood from certain areas so why not suck it up and buy your wood locally upon arrival!
As for towing with what you have, I would look at what your payload is and stay within that and you should be fine! Just don't overload the RV either!
Take that thing to the mountains if you want! Just know that you wont win any races to the top but RV'ing is not about racing but rather enjoying the ride!

Agree on the water and fire wood as added weight. We will fill the water tank when we reach the camping spot.

[Tom_Diane]

QUOTE "if I fill water and haul some firewood we are over the numbers by about 750 lbs."

Why travel with water on board? If its for in travel use then why not just use the fuel stops or just use maybe 5 or 6 gallons instead of filling it!
Consider that you cannot transport wood from certain areas so why not suck it up and buy your wood locally upon arrival!
As for towing with what you have, I would look at what your payload is and stay within that and you should be fine! Just don't overload the RV either!
Take that thing to the mountains if you want! Just know that you wont win any races to the top but RV'ing is not about racing but rather enjoying the ride!

[jffnkrn]

according to my owners manual the (D) "Fifth Wheel or gooseneck kingpin weight should be 15 percent to 25 percent of trailer weight up to 3,000 lbs maximum. If this helps, Great!!!

[avvidclif1]

The tow rating listed is for a bumper pull. 5th wheel has a different number that is higher. In my experience.

[C-Bears]

Reading all the numbers I wouldn't rule it out right away for towing. The only thing I would caution you on is trying to navigate really steep grades. You are going to find yourself jumping on the brakes coming down out of steep mountain passes and you will chew through brakes and possibly even have some brake fade if the run is long enough or steep enough.

You can get by in the flats and hills, I just would stay away from mountains.

[laknox]

Don't forget that Biscuit's numbers are at GVW of the FW, so these are MAX numbers. If you load lighter, then they will be less. Best thing is to load up as if you're going camping, then hit a CAT scale and get actual weights. Also, if you can, get separate axle weights on the FW and even side to side.

Lyle

[Racine96]

Unless you change the rear end to 4.10, you are looking for problems. MHO

[Old-Biscuit]

Fuel/hitch/passengers--------6840#
20% of 5vr GVWR (10475)------2095#
Total truck weight-----------8935#
Trucks GVWR------------------9200#
Amount under trucks GVWR------265#

Rear axle scaled weight---------------3080#
Pin weight (20% of 5vrs GVWR)---------2095#
Rear axle/tire weight-----------------5175#
Trucks RAWR (actually rear tires)-----6084#
Amount under RAWR/Tire load------------909#

Trucks max tow rating--------9900#
5vrs GVWR-------------------10475#
Amount over max tow rating----575#


Loaded truck (fuel/hitch/pass.)-------6840#
5vr at GVWR--------------------------10475# (this number includes pin weight)
Total combined weight----------------16315#
GCWR---------------------------------16000#
Amount OVER GCWR-----------------------315#

So with truck loaded and trailer packed full at GVWR you will be:
Under trucks GVWR by 265#
Under trucks rear tire max load rating by 909#
Over max tow rating by 575#
OVER GCWR by 315#

As far as ratings.......close to being maxxed on trucks GVWR & rear tire ratings (over GCWR and tow rating). But rear tire/trucks GWVR are the real important ones.
What is really going to be your limiting factor is the gas engine.

Loaded.....yes
OK on flats
SLOW going on ANY grades----tad heavy coming down grades

I'd tow it!

I'm right at rear tire rating, over trucks GVWR but tow with a 'tractor motor' and have exhaust brake so I'm not scared :B

[jffnkrn]

Sorry, we do have the HD 2500 and yes it is the gas 6.0.

[Flapper]

You may want to consider how you load, also. Putting as much heavy stuff in/on the back of the 5th will help a bit in reducing the pin weight. If you can put the gen. on a tray behind the bumper, that might reduce pin weight by 30-40 lbs, etc. I know, not huge, but you're in the territory where everything helps....

[laknox]

jffnkrn wrote:
We have visited this before, but now that all is dialed in, here is the run down. your comments are appreciated.
2010 GMC Sierra 4X4 extended cab short bed 3:73 6.0 gas. Manual says max trailer weight 9900 lbs., GCWR 16,000 lbs. Door sticker: 9200 GVWR, 4200 GAWR front 6084 GAWR rear. So with elimination of some tool box junk and adding fifth wheel hitch actual scale weights today with full fuel, hitch and passengers is / are: front axle 3760 lbs., rear axle 3080 lbs. for a total of 6840. tires Michelin load range E max at 80 psi of 3042 per. Now the new fifth wheel: not scaled yet: shows UVWR of 8755 and GVWR of 10475 and hitch of 1675 lbs.. It is considered a light weight, but that probably doesn't matter. with our generator 130 lbs., food clothes etc. about 500 lbs. puts us just over the limits by a couple hundred pounds.according to the provided numbers on the vehicle and trailer. if I fill water and haul some firewood we are over the numbers by about 750 lbs. Now I understand just over borderline or max, but within a year or so in hopes of upgrading tow vehicle. I hope enough info: Your thoughts, comments, etc. Thanks Jeff

You're going to be very close to your limits. You're likely to exceed your tires' capacity. If you have 245/75R-16 tires you can upgrade to 265/75R-16's and pick up several hundred lbs of tire capacity. Also, if at all possible, travel with minimal water and fill up near to your destination.

Lyle