TV/Fifth Wheel combo provide an acceptable ride?

[Garyl53]

We completed a recent trip of about 750 mi. round trip over various roads from highways (mostly) to city streets. Our ride was terrible consisting of constant chucking and general rough riding. I have fought a chucking issue that has improved slightly with additions to TV and 5vr over the past 3 years but DW can't take ride anymore since there is just too uncomfortable preventing her from reading or even using a tablet or phone. It has caused us to reevaluate our plans to travel extensively with this rig after retirement in the next year. My signature shows our rig info. Maybe I have a suspension defect in the trailer or the truck but I haven't been able to resolve it.
What is your ride like?
Is it comfortable for the passenger?
Is that why many move to a Class A, B or C?
Thanks for any feedback!

[thomas201]

I will give you a different suggestion. It is very cheap, and can help with the chucking. I started driving class 5, in 1985 and we often moved partially full tube trailers. They had a very lively ride. I am still driving my first 5er from 2011, and it has a very light pin weight, only about 12-15%, even with a truck spare in the basement (it is a RK model). I pull with an el cheapo drawbar hitch, because simple is best. To help with the chucking, drive as smooth as silk, no cruise control, look ahead and think ahead. Brake smooth, time lights, make no sudden moves. At first driving like this will wear you out, until it becomes the way you drive all the time. It can make a big difference. This is not my idea, it was taught at the Dowell Schlumberger driving school in Tulsa and it does work.

[danrclem]

I think you're right about staying with the 5,600 lb. standard Ford spring. My son rented a 2016 F250 CC, 6.7 last Dec. to pull his camper to Florida and he said it was the most comfortable ride he'd ever been in but I think it had a lot to do with the seats. I guess he meant including cars too but not sure.

Taking the bumper off might have been his way of trying to justify the cost or making me believe the cost was justified. I haven't even looked at mine to see how it'll have to come apart but I'll check the youtube video out and if I don't have to use a compresser it'll icing on the cake.

[Garyl53]

Hi,
I am going to change the front coils to the 5600 lb. non-plow option. I am tempted to try the 5200 lb coils but I think it is wiser to stay with those that Ford specified for base 6.7L 4X4 models.

danclem - I would shop around a bit since I don't think the front bumper needs to come off just to change the coil spring. Also I think it is possible to change the springs without a coil compressor tool since the axle can be dropped down. Here is a video example - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xo3MJEomK3M

[danrclem]

Garyl53, I don't know if this information will help you but I'll pass it along just in case. I would think that what affects the front would somewhat affect the rear.

I started a thread over on the tow vehicles forum about my problem. JIMNLIN kindly posted a link to the vehicle specifications. I found that my 2011 F250 6.2, 4X4, Super Cab with plow package has front springs with a rating of 5,600 lbs. The stock springs have a rating of 4,800 lbs. so a difference of 800 lbs. I think would make quite a bit of difference unloaded.

I got a price from a spring company that said it would cost about $900 for the swap including new bolts. He said the front bumper would have to be taken off to switch these out. I called a Ford dealer up and got a price of $263.38 for a pair of 4,800 lb. springs. I'm sure that different dealers are going to have different prices but this is the only one I called. I know there have to be a lot of used ones lying around but finding them and having the right rate may be a problem.

If I can find a set of coil spring compressors that I think are worthy of compressing these I'm going to change them myself. I've changed coil springs before but nothing of this caliber and it wasn't that hard.

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/topics/techspec.html

[larry_barnhart]

Before the highway was fixed going though Boise Idaho on I-84 it was a rough ride on our 3500 chev dually towing our 35 ft alpenlite with an air hitch and trailair center point suspension. Talking to 2 MH friend from our state that traveled this route both complained the same as we did. One was a 43 ft Monaco with very big tires and air suspension and the other was a 36 ft Bounder.

Didn't seem like it was better for either so who knows the best but a large MH would seem to be smoother. Who spends the most money better think it is the best.

chevman

[ReneeG]

Durb wrote:

ReneeG wrote:
Durb, OP said he bought a BD3 and it didn't fix his problem. I know what you mean about a TrailerSaver because we have one. We boondock off many forest service roads and don't feel the trailer chuck, do the truck as you said. You may be onto something with the trailer being the culprit. Ours has an E-Z Flex suspension system and quad shocks which I'm sure helps. Plus all our holding tanks are in the middle, adding to correct weight distribution.

I didn't see that OP had tried a BD3. Forces coming from the trailer are a combination of bouncing forces (up and down) and chucking forces (back and forth). I feel that the BD3 does a good job with the bouncing forces but the chucking forces are pushing against the solid steel uprights and are being transferred to the truck frame. Fortunately, the bouncing and chucking forces are timed events so that the trailer is pushing down and pushing forward at the same time. The TS3 has a high hinge design so when the hitch jaws are being pushed down they also rotate forward absorbing the chucking forces. I believe the TS3 is more capable of dissipating chucking forces than the BD3 by the nature of the design. Many people on this forum run the BD3 with a MorRyde pin box.

We've had the BD3 with this FW since 2010 with a great towing experience and we've traveled many miles with it including off road with no problem. I would say, depending on your setup needs, any TrailerSaver hitch is worth it.

[mt1729]

My only suggestion would be to move your 5th wh hitch forward a few inches, that is if you have the clearance to do so.

[IBcarguy]

I have been fighting a bad chucking over bumps also. Leveled the trailer, added pin weight, installed Bilstein shocks on my 2500HD and nothing seemed to help until I installed a MORryde pinbox. This was a huge improvement. I won't own another 5ver without one.

[Durb]

ReneeG wrote:
Durb, OP said he bought a BD3 and it didn't fix his problem. I know what you mean about a TrailerSaver because we have one. We boondock off many forest service roads and don't feel the trailer chuck, do the truck as you said. You may be onto something with the trailer being the culprit. Ours has an E-Z Flex suspension system and quad shocks which I'm sure helps. Plus all our holding tanks are in the middle, adding to correct weight distribution.

I didn't see that OP had tried a BD3. Forces coming from the trailer are a combination of bouncing forces (up and down) and chucking forces (back and forth). I feel that the BD3 does a good job with the bouncing forces but the chucking forces are pushing against the solid steel uprights and are being transferred to the truck frame. Fortunately, the bouncing and chucking forces are timed events so that the trailer is pushing down and pushing forward at the same time. The TS3 has a high hinge design so when the hitch jaws are being pushed down they also rotate forward absorbing the chucking forces. I believe the TS3 is more capable of dissipating chucking forces than the BD3 by the nature of the design. Many people on this forum run the BD3 with a MorRyde pin box.

[ReneeG]

Durb, OP said he bought a BD3 and it didn't fix his problem. I know what you mean about a TrailerSaver because we have one. We boondock off many forest service roads and don't feel the trailer chuck, do the truck as you said. You may be onto something with the trailer being the culprit. Ours has an E-Z Flex suspension system and quad shocks which I'm sure helps. Plus all our holding tanks are in the middle, adding to correct weight distribution.

[Durb]

OP, been there done that, except we lasted about 30 miles and a half hour. Some trailers for many reasons create chucking forces. One major factor is short length. Not much you can do to change that.

Let's see, truck doesn't chuck when the trailer is not hooked up. There is chucking when the trailer is hooked up. I know, let's blame the truck. The truck is not causing the chucking.

The hitch is not causing the chucking. It is just transferring the chucking energy to your truck frame. If you are using a solid joint hitch (Andersen) you might as well have your drivers seat bolted directly to your pin box in terms of comfort. Chucking energy that makes occupants uncomfortable has a pathway that goes from the trailer to the pin box to the truck frame to the cab to the seats. The truck's suspension is not part of this pathway. Truck shocks, air bags, different leafs or heavier trucks will not alleviate your problem. Your trailer is creating the chucking forces.

Your solution likes at your hitch joint with the goal of keeping the chucking energy your trailer is generating from reaching your truck. This generally entails an air ride hitch or pin box which converts chucking energy into heat energy by compressing air and radiating it into the atmosphere. I can guarantee you my chucking was as bad as yours and my solution was an air ride hitch. No more chucking. I just completed a 7 hour tow today from eastern Oregon. The road was **** with many bumps and heaves. We still felt the jolts when the truck hit the bumps but we felt nothing when the trailer hit the same. It just bounces along back there (still creating chucking forces) but none of it gets into the cab of the truck. The heaves are still an issue but no getting around those.

My Trailer Saver TS3 was designed to remove chucking forces. It works splendidly and is the reason I still have my 5er and enjoy towing towing it. It was expensive but is worth every penny.

[larry_barnhart]

A friend bought a jeep to tow behind the MH. It had a plow front end suspension. The ride was jarring. chevman

[Garyl53]

danrclem -
If you are experiencing shaking or vibration in the front end on rough roads and bumps it may the the steering stabilizer (shock) needs replacement. I agree that the front springs are upgraded one level when Plow package is ordered so on your gasser that is likely what you have. I have upgraded to Bilstein 5100s.

rhagfo - thanks for the additional input.

[rhagfo]

Old-Biscuit wrote:

Garyl53 wrote:


The label specs on my F250 are 10k GVWR, 14.4k max tow, 2020# payload, 23.5 GCWR, 6200# GRAWR. I also believe due to the options configuration it is identical to F350 with following specs:
11.5k GVWR
15.7k max tow
23.5k GCWR
3.5k payload

I think I am under all specs except labeled payload (2020# v 2720# actual)
Here are CAT numbers:
Truck only -
Steer - 4720#
Drive - 3300#
Total - 8020

Truck + 5vr -
Steer - 4840#
Drive - 6020#
5vr - 8680#
Total- 19540#

Thank you for the questions.

Thank you for the answers.......

Couple of things.
NO your truck is NOT like a F350
It has a 10K GVWR, 2020# payload -----nothing you have on truck changes that

Those snowplow HD Coils up front are causing some of your rough riding issues

As for the numbers:
Wet pin weight 2720#
Not really ....you have added 2720# to Rear axle BUT have also increased weight on front axle by 120#-----that's 2820# pin weight
800# OVER your payload of 2020#

Trucks GVWR is 10,000#
trucks scaled weight when hitched to 5vr is 10,860#
F/axle--4840# plus R/axle 6020#
860# Over GVWR



Trailers suspension should result in trailer riding smooth...but truck is the culprit

Rough ride is due to trucks heavy duty/stiff front axle suspension, air bags vs overloads and the resonance created by trucks wheel base and distance to trailers axles.


IF you got rid of those HD front snowplow coils....back to stock I think you would see/feel a marked improvement in ride comfort

One other question???

What tire PSI are you running up front when towing?

My F/axle has similar weight....I run 55 psi ALL the time (towing or not towing) as front axle weight doesn't change much (I add 150# to F/axle when I hitch up my 5vr----king pin is 2" forward of R/axle center line)
Rear tires.....45# not towing and 80# towing

Stiff suspension, Tire PSI higher then needed.......rough rough ride

Well not going to get into the 250/350 debate, OP appears to know he is towing over the tagged Class 2 10,000# GVWR. I do agree with Old Biscuit that the TV is set up too stiff.
We tow with a Ram 2500 5er is the same weight, but I have a lighter pin and more on the wheels. Our 5er has shocks, and tows level, also has wet bolts and heavy duty shackles.
Our TV is has Camper and Tow packages, no snow Plow package, we currently have almost zero chucking. I don't run bags, and at last check still missing the overloads by about 3/4".
Based on that I would assume the TV is set too stiff.

[danrclem]

Garyl53 wrote:
danrclem -
I think the F250/350 6.7L SRW (W/O the Plow and Camper options) models come standard with a 5600# Front GAWR (Spring Code D). I may also look into having those changed. I suspect there are a lot of those available at a good price used since lots of people will "lift" these trucks and discard the front springs in the process.

I'm thinking that you and I may have the same problem but are maybe looking at it a little differently.

I just went outside and looked at my door tag. My front springs are DD/5600# and my rear are LL/6100#. So it looks like I may have 6.7 springs on a 6.2 gasser because of the snow plow/camper packages. I've read that the camper package adds a stabilizer bar on the F250 model rear axles so that's good.

I posted on the Ford truck forum but don't really have answers so far that would reveal the problem 100%. One guy did say change the shocks which really I should. I have what appears to be a Rancho shock on the front which I thought were a replacement shock but then read that FX4 packages came with the Rancho so these may be the original shock. I think that I'll start with the shocks and go from there.

Gary, do you have the original shocks on yours?