WEIGHT QUESTION for GMC 2500

[DBECHEN]

Hi all, We are considering moving up to a FW from our hybrid TT. We have a 2007 GMC 2500HD crew cab diesel with a 6' bed. we are looking at a Heartland Big Country 3950 FB (GVWR 15500). My question, will it be safe for us to tow with our current TV? Do we need to put air bags on the rear suspension? Will we be maxing out out TV and putting undue stress on it? We are trying to make a decision on the best FW option withthe hopes of going full time in the future. We would like to make one purchase and not have to buy another TV as our's is paid for already. Thanks for the help and input.

[bucky]

Until you weigh the trailer with your "stuff" in it you can't really make a decision. Our 14000lb Jayco weighs 11600 on the road with empty tanks.

[NC_Hauler]

IH_Fan wrote:
Hi folks,

I’ve been watching/reading the weight posts with interest and have seen the difference of opinions and approach.

I’ll throw in that government regulations and manufacturer’s desire to maximize profits by creating commonality in parts adds to the debate (or confusion!).

Here’s my thinking on the issue and I’ll use my 2013 Ram 2500 CTD Longhorn as an example.

The GVWR on my truck is 10,000 lbs. That falls directly under the wire of the next class of vehicle of 10,000 lbs per DOT regs. This is where manufacturers have the ¾ ton trucks built under. Over 10,001 lbs is 1 ton + territory and with that comes increased licensing and registration fees. In other words a Government imposed threshold.

This same truck shows a GAWR rear of 6,200 lbs and front of 5,500 lbs. Add these 2 together and the GVWR is in fact 11,700…….not 10,000. Did Ram (or the other manufacturers) do this on purpose? No. What they did do is standardize parts in a narrow truck market. Lots of ½ tons are sold, but far fewer ¾ or 1 tons. The best way to maximize profits is to keep as many parts between these two models the same. That is why for all RAM model years (except the 2013 Ram when the ¾ and 1 ton had different frames transitioning to the new K50 frame) the ONLY difference between the 2 was/is an added leaf spring and different tires. To be sure, Ram has made the Aisin transmission an option in the 1 ton. Personally, I think you’ll see the 68RFE will be phased out in future (a maximized design) with all ¾ and 1 tons with the Aisin as the torque and HP wars continue, but I digress……

The rear tires on my Ram are maxed to 6,390 lbs (Firestone Transforce AT)…….Ram used a tire that is higher rated than the rear axle. Yet this is the EXACT same axle as found on the 1 ton….

Based on this, my recommendation to anyone researching is this:

The big number to be mindful of is the rear axle, followed by the tire rating. The payload argument has validity and perhaps more so in some earlier model years. But in the newer trucks, payload is becoming more and more of a false start in the ¾ vs 1 ton argument, only because of Government regulations and manufacturers trying to maximize profits are not aligned with each other.

Yes, you need to be safe…..Yes, you need to drive wise and to changing road conditions…..Yes, you can only buy a set up you can afford….

But – this argument is a bit more complicated than on the surface of things. No, this is not justification to pull a 40’ trailer with a 1986 K-car!!! This is about common sense…….

It may be the same axle as on a 1 ton SRW, but not the same as on the 1 ton DRW truck, which has a 9750# weight rating per Ram, but an 11,800# rating from AAM....

common sense isn't so common anymore...

[wildernesshd]

I have an 08 GMC 2500 and tow a 38 ft. 4 slide 5th wheel.if I max out the load on the camper I would be over the advertised rating. But as used I`m just under. as for as wearing out items like brakes, axles,bearings and frame,these parts are shared between the 2500 and 3500 minus a couple of tires and springs on the rear.
as for the original post i would have to say that 5ver is too large for that truck.a 3950 will probably measure around 42 ft. and about 1500-1800 over weight.
as for pulling it the truck will do it, but without any margin.I have weighed mine and am just under on the rear and when loaded the front axle actually losses about 80 lbs compared to the weight of the truck minus the camper.

[IH_Fan]

Hi folks,

I’ve been watching/reading the weight posts with interest and have seen the difference of opinions and approach.

I’ll throw in that government regulations and manufacturer’s desire to maximize profits by creating commonality in parts adds to the debate (or confusion!).

Here’s my thinking on the issue and I’ll use my 2013 Ram 2500 CTD Longhorn as an example.

The GVWR on my truck is 10,000 lbs. That falls directly under the wire of the next class of vehicle of 10,000 lbs per DOT regs. This is where manufacturers have the ¾ ton trucks built under. Over 10,001 lbs is 1 ton + territory and with that comes increased licensing and registration fees. In other words a Government imposed threshold.

This same truck shows a GAWR rear of 6,200 lbs and front of 5,500 lbs. Add these 2 together and the GVWR is in fact 11,700…….not 10,000. Did Ram (or the other manufacturers) do this on purpose? No. What they did do is standardize parts in a narrow truck market. Lots of ½ tons are sold, but far fewer ¾ or 1 tons. The best way to maximize profits is to keep as many parts between these two models the same. That is why for all RAM model years (except the 2013 Ram when the ¾ and 1 ton had different frames transitioning to the new K50 frame) the ONLY difference between the 2 was/is an added leaf spring and different tires. To be sure, Ram has made the Aisin transmission an option in the 1 ton. Personally, I think you’ll see the 68RFE will be phased out in future (a maximized design) with all ¾ and 1 tons with the Aisin as the torque and HP wars continue, but I digress……

The rear tires on my Ram are maxed to 6,390 lbs (Firestone Transforce AT)…….Ram used a tire that is higher rated than the rear axle. Yet this is the EXACT same axle as found on the 1 ton….

Based on this, my recommendation to anyone researching is this:

The big number to be mindful of is the rear axle, followed by the tire rating. The payload argument has validity and perhaps more so in some earlier model years. But in the newer trucks, payload is becoming more and more of a false start in the ¾ vs 1 ton argument, only because of Government regulations and manufacturers trying to maximize profits are not aligned with each other.

Yes, you need to be safe…..Yes, you need to drive wise and to changing road conditions…..Yes, you can only buy a set up you can afford….

But – this argument is a bit more complicated than on the surface of things. No, this is not justification to pull a 40’ trailer with a 1986 K-car!!! This is about common sense…….

[billyray50]

kohai wrote:
There is a sticker on the inside of the driver's door that will tell you how much weight you have available for payload on your specific vehicle.

.

That number is really based on wheel and tire ratings. 19.5 wheels and tires will be the way upgrade payload number. Adding a leaf spring to each rear pack also. Thats what i did with my Dodge 2500 for a heavy Truck camper.

[TXiceman]

Never mind the ratings on the trucks, a lot of SRW drivers feel that there is safety in numbers. If enough of them tow over ratings, they will be safe.

Ken

[NC_Hauler]

"IF" going to full time and his 5er has a GVW of over 15,000#, I will "assume" that it very well may be loaded near it's GVW, which could result in a 3,000# or higher pin weight. I think RAWR for his 2500 was a little over 6,000#...really pushing the limit I would think.

[rhagfo]

kohai wrote:
There is a sticker on the inside of the driver's door that will tell you how much weight you have available for payload on your specific vehicle.

Well we are way past that sticker!
OP is looking at a 13,000# dry, going to weigh an easy 14,500 wet 5er. He will be past GVWR, but the real question is will he be within axle and tire ratings.

[kohai]

There is a sticker on the inside of the driver's door that will tell you how much weight you have available for payload on your specific vehicle.

[NC_Hauler]

rhagfo wrote:

NC Hauler wrote:

smurf wrote:
Well guys we have been full timing for 10 years / We have an 04 364 Everest 4 slides . I also have a 50 gal tanking my bed. OO I for got we pull it with an 04 GMC 2500 HD /Allison Tran. !!! I have 150,000 miles . I have weighted it full of fuel ( 80 gal )loaded 5th wheel and was a 150# over on front axle . We travel over west of the Mississippi River CO. WA. OR. Mont. ID. Ca. NM. Minn. And all points in
between .:)

Well, actions speak louder than words...it appears it works for you, and you're pushing the limits even more by adding an additional 365# of diesel fuel. You and the poster below you appear to make it work and both of you state, by mileage towing, it is quite safe...I still don't know if I would advocate towing, pushing the limit of trucks axle ratings, but I tend to err to the side of safety....BUT..... I guess the two posters who have been towing 14,000# 5er's, "noticed" that the OP's 5er has a GVW of 1500# MORE than their 14,000# 5ers at 15,500# GVW?? Significantly heavier, so if above poster is over an axle weight with a 14,000# GVW 5er, IF OP loads heavier than last two posters, would the two posters recommend for OP to "go ahead" and still do it:h..I can't advocate not being safe..

I towed just under 14,000# with an 03' Chevy D/A as I stated earlier with no extra fuel,and trucks configuration was ext cab/short bed....I did it, but on some mountainous secondary roads felt I needed a little more truck...I can't imagine on top of 14,000#, possibly adding ANOTHER 1/2 ton or more..I personally wouldn't recommend towing a 15,500# 5er with the 3/4 ton the OP has....

This is where I am at, for sure not weight police, BUT there are still limits as to what you can exceed the limits of your TV.

I don't often suggest others do as I do, we are over the TV GVWR by a decent amount, BUT still have about 500# of axle capacity both front and rear.
That said the rear axle rating is 6,084# just what the stock 245/75-16E tires rate out at. TV is Camper Special bigger springs and larger tires 265/75-16E so stock is 3,042# ea, and the 265 are 3,415# ea. so in reality my rear axle rating is 6,830#! I base all loading on the VIN plate axle ratings. A lawyer will try to challenge being over GVWR, but over axle ratings I would not want to be in the situation!

Well, can't deny that I've been called a "weight police":), but we do agree that being over one's axle weight is a bit on the "hairy side" and even I now agree that GVWR isn't the magic number, (more the RAWR as far as "legality), though I do try to stay within the recommended weight ratings, I believe if one is under their RAWR, they should be ok...going over, I would think, at some point is pushing the limits of some of the trucks safety functions, (ie brakes, ABS, stopping distances, maneuverability while well overloading the truck,), and could prematurely wear out some components on the truck....

[NC_Hauler]

Paul Clancy wrote:
See them every day camping in every campground. Would I feel safe? - no, not at 14k. Having said that I also know the single rear wheel 3500 of the same year is the same truck as 2500 with one more leaf and higher rated wheels and tires and a sticker - so trading for that is a tough pill for the money lost versus some simple upgrades. Personally I'd go to a dually with that weight.

They also state they're planning on going "full time"...also added that 5er they're looking at has a GVW of 15,500#, (1500 more than the 14K in example)..I would think, going full time, it'll be pretty well loaded...I agree that 2500 and 3500 SRW, back then, difference was the overload leaf...(tires on my 2500 were the same "E" rated tire found on a 3500 back in 03', I know because I looked at both, tires at that time, were identical.)

[rhagfo]

NC Hauler wrote:

smurf wrote:
Well guys we have been full timing for 10 years / We have an 04 364 Everest 4 slides . I also have a 50 gal tanking my bed. OO I for got we pull it with an 04 GMC 2500 HD /Allison Tran. !!! I have 150,000 miles . I have weighted it full of fuel ( 80 gal )loaded 5th wheel and was a 150# over on front axle . We travel over west of the Mississippi River CO. WA. OR. Mont. ID. Ca. NM. Minn. And all points in
between .:)

Well, actions speak louder than words...it appears it works for you, and you're pushing the limits even more by adding an additional 365# of diesel fuel. You and the poster below you appear to make it work and both of you state, by mileage towing, it is quite safe...I still don't know if I would advocate towing, pushing the limit of trucks axle ratings, but I tend to err to the side of safety....BUT..... I guess the two posters who have been towing 14,000# 5er's, "noticed" that the OP's 5er has a GVW of 1500# MORE than their 14,000# 5ers at 15,500# GVW?? Significantly heavier, so if above poster is over an axle weight with a 14,000# GVW 5er, IF OP loads heavier than last two posters, would the two posters recommend for OP to "go ahead" and still do it:h..I can't advocate not being safe..

I towed just under 14,000# with an 03' Chevy D/A as I stated earlier with no extra fuel,and trucks configuration was ext cab/short bed....I did it, but on some mountainous secondary roads felt I needed a little more truck...I can't imagine on top of 14,000#, possibly adding ANOTHER 1/2 ton or more..I personally wouldn't recommend towing a 15,500# 5er with the 3/4 ton the OP has....

This is where I am at, for sure not weight police, BUT there are still limits as to what you can exceed the limits of your TV.

I don't often suggest others do as I do, we are over the TV GVWR by a decent amount, BUT still have about 500# of axle capacity both front and rear.
That said the rear axle rating is 6,084# just what the stock 245/75-16E tires rate out at. TV is Camper Special bigger springs and larger tires 265/75-16E so stock is 3,042# ea, and the 265 are 3,415# ea. so in reality my rear axle rating is 6,830#! I base all loading on the VIN plate axle ratings. A lawyer will try to challenge being over GVWR, but over axle ratings I would not want to be in the situation!

[Paul_Clancy]

See them every day camping in every campground. Would I feel safe? - no, not at 14k. Having said that I also know the single rear wheel 3500 of the same year is the same truck as 2500 with one more leaf and higher rated wheels and tires and a sticker - so trading for that is a tough pill for the money lost versus some simple upgrades. Personally I'd go to a dually with that weight.

[NC_Hauler]

smurf wrote:
Well guys we have been full timing for 10 years / We have an 04 364 Everest 4 slides . I also have a 50 gal tanking my bed. OO I for got we pull it with an 04 GMC 2500 HD /Allison Tran. !!! I have 150,000 miles . I have weighted it full of fuel ( 80 gal )loaded 5th wheel and was a 150# over on front axle . We travel over west of the Mississippi River CO. WA. OR. Mont. ID. Ca. NM. Minn. And all points in
between .:)

Well, actions speak louder than words...it appears it works for you, and you're pushing the limits even more by adding an additional 365# of diesel fuel. You and the poster below you appear to make it work and both of you state, by mileage towing, it is quite safe...I still don't know if I would advocate towing, pushing the limit of trucks axle ratings, but I tend to err to the side of safety....BUT..... I guess the two posters who have been towing 14,000# 5er's, "noticed" that the OP's 5er has a GVW of 1500# MORE than their 14,000# 5ers at 15,500# GVW?? Significantly heavier, so if above poster is over an axle weight with a 14,000# GVW 5er, IF OP loads heavier than last two posters, would the two posters recommend for OP to "go ahead" and still do it:h..I can't advocate not being safe..

I towed just under 14,000# with an 03' Chevy D/A as I stated earlier with no extra fuel,and trucks configuration was ext cab/short bed....I did it, but on some mountainous secondary roads felt I needed a little more truck...I can't imagine on top of 14,000#, possibly adding ANOTHER 1/2 ton or more..I personally wouldn't recommend towing a 15,500# 5er with the 3/4 ton the OP has....