460 or V10

[applik]

So hubby and I are looking at some older class C's since that's what we can afford right now. 96 - 01 years We would like to tow our 01 grand cherokee behind whatever we get. So do we need shorter or longer C? We live in northern AZ mountains and frequently travel to the mtns in Utah, CO, and, Idaho. Had a travel trailer but I just didn't fit on the dinette that well! So sold it. And hubby says no 8' wide trailers (ours was a 7) Boondocked most of the time. Only stayed in an RV park two nites. We are retired and 65+ but love to go on little jaunts for a week or so at a time. Never in a hurry just love to see the country.
I've seen some units have a 460 instead of the V10. Will either pull our cherokee? He's a pretty good mechanic and DIY man so we should be able to keep up with maintenance. So many things to consider and I don't know where to start looking. Floorplan isn't such a big deal as bed size. We only sleep in it. The rest of the time we're off jeepin.
Any input and info will be greatly appreciated.

[WinMinnie02]

pnichols was your vehicle bough new or used? Just want to know if my 2002 will give me trouble soon? I have had good luck so far since purchasing it new in 2002.

[pnichols]

For what it's worth - our 2005 V10 Class C motorhome (2005 E450 chassis under a 2005 Winnebago-Itasca coach) came from Ford with a computer controlled TorqShift 5R110 5-speed (6 speeds internally) transmission in it. Our Class C has a little over 51K miles on it.

Last Thursday the 5R110 transmission experienced serious failure leaving our driveway and we barely made it into town with it. By Friday afternoon, a factory rebuilt transmission was installed in it so that we could begin an RV trip across the country. I hope the factory rebuild holds up.

[SRockwood]

JaxDad wrote:

romore wrote:
The newer units will have the V-10, by all accounts it is a strong puller and gets reasonable gas mileage if driven sensibly. The 460 is an old design, not as emission friendly and has a big appetite for gas. Still, a lot of people like it for the brute torque.

It takes 'X' amount of gas to produce 'Y' amount of horsepower, period. There was no revolutionary change in efficiency or performance between the V8 and V10.

V10 is a completely different design with SOHC heads and is more willing to rev. More revs means more power and shorter gears can be run for more torque multiplication (many V10s game with 4.30:1 or 4.56:1). As long as you're willing to put up with some more revs (not necessarily more noise, just busier sounding) and trust that Ford did their homework when setting maximum RPMs, the V10 is the better engine.

I'd go V10 if possible. Far more likely than spark plug failure will be the E40D (which was generally considered junk) blowing up. The 4R100 that comes mated to the V10 is an improvement, though still not a great trans (make sure to manually select gears and stay away from OD when running hills). Also, newer means less sun on the roof and seals, less time for engine gaskets to age out, and less time for the elements to have their way with the coach. Obviously, this will vary with the previous owner's level of meticulousness, but as with everything mechanical, newer is generally better.

[j-d]

Mis-Posted, Moved, Sorry...

[jaycocreek]

I've seen some units have a 460 instead of the V10. Will either pull our cherokee?

The short answer is yes!

I pull a car and/or an ATV trailer with my 21ft class C with the 460 EFI..It has more than enough power here in our Idaho mountains,more so than the 454's I have owned.Our local bargain shop guy bought a V-10..He does not like it as a daily delivery truck.Say's it lacks power compared..His opinion not mine but he does use it daily as a delivery truck.

Personally,I would stay away from any engine with noted problems such as the spark plug issue.Some have it,some don't..My luck,I would..My old 5.4 had the same reputation for spark plugs..Got rid of it before I had to find out if mine was one of the bad boys.

Older trucks and motorhomes run the risk of lack of maintenance..One with service records is a huge plus!Theirs more to an engine/drive chain than just changing the oil.

Good luck in your choice..

[Bumpyroad]

so the "problem" with these early V10s, which I had for 15 years with no issues, was on the rare times that the spark plugs needed to be touched, to have a genuine, knowledgeable mechanic change/tighten them? seems to me to be sort of a non issue. at least not enough to prevent me from buying one. I'd be more concerned with buying a P-30/32 chassis of that vintage.
bumpy

[wcjeep]

j-d wrote:

1997-1999 was first of the V10's with 275-HP and about the same performance as the last of the 460's. Some of those engines had problems with spark plug threads. At least some of that trouble seems to have been from improper mechanics. E4OD was modified all so slightly and named 4R100.

2000 and later V10's went to 305-HP with "Performance Improved" heads that also addressed the spark plug issue.

The V8 truck engines had the same spark plug problem. The V8 version also ate coil packs. A stripped spark plug head can be repaired. It's usually not cheap.

[Gale_Hawkins]

Newer is better with all things being equal. We do have the 454 TBI in our 1992 P30 chevy chassis. Very pleased with it but it is old but all tuned up so it might be good for another 10 years BUT it is old. Any kind of accident will total it out. I have the Ford V-8 big block engine in our F700 farm truck but in a MH I would prefer a V-10. Try to not go over 10 years old if possible would be my thought if buying today. There is no hard and fast rule on what to buy.

[rjstractor]

JaxDad wrote:
It takes 'X' amount of gas to produce 'Y' amount of horsepower, period. There was no revolutionary change in efficiency or performance between the V8 and V10.

That's not exactly true. The 150 hp Dodge Coronet I drove as a kid got 14 mpg, and the 170 hp VW Passat I drive now gets 30. Having said that, while there is a slight increase in performance and efficiency going from the 460 to the V10 (I've owned both), it's not overwhelming.

[Golden_HVAC]

I had a 460" V8 in my 75 F-350 pickup, and again when I bought a new Bounder in late 96, as a 97 model. I like the power of the 460" engine. The V10 is also powerful, and can rev up to a much higher RPM due to it's tiny pistons and short stroke, so it actually makes more power from a smaller powerplant.

I would stay away from the 97 - 2001 or 2002 V10's because they only used 3 threads on the spark plugs to hold them it the engines. While you do not need to change the spark plugs until 100,000 miles, when they do get removed many 'backyard' mechanics would tighten them to 'firm' and bottom out the threads, remove the tiny amount of aluminum (that is soft) and the spark plugs would pop out of the heads after a few dozen miles. The proper way to install them is with a torque wrench, and it is only something like 37 inch pounds of torque! A little more than what is holding the cabinet knobs on your kitchen cabinets!

I agree that if you are going to get something in the 24 - 26' long range, it will fit into most parking places at the mall, grocery store, ect. Towing the jeep would only be required if you wanted to take along a off road vehicle, or avoid leaving 'camp' to go sightseeing. Yes it does take a few minutes to put everything away and run to the store, while taking a Jeep is much faster to get ready and go.

I found that when I had a 27' long class C, I would do all the shopping that I needed while out sightseeing, or traveling to a campground and never really broke camp just to go to the store.

The 460" engine will power any RV, mine is 30' long and 17,000 GVWR, I tow a 4,000 pound car. I have towed a 8,000 pound cargo trailer with my brother's dragster in it. . . No problems with power in it.

I think it was 96 or 97 that Ford changed over the Econoline from 460" V8 to V10. Just do not go older than 1990, because those are fuel injected, and better mileage. In 93 or 94, they all came with overdrive!

Some of the older RV's did not have a strong hitch. Make sure that the chassis is strong enough to haul the expected load.

Good luck,

Fred.

[JaxDad]

romore wrote:
The newer units will have the V-10, by all accounts it is a strong puller and gets reasonable gas mileage if driven sensibly. The 460 is an old design, not as emission friendly and has a big appetite for gas. Still, a lot of people like it for the brute torque.

It takes 'X' amount of gas to produce 'Y' amount of horsepower, period. There was no revolutionary change in efficiency or performance between the V8 and V10.

applik wrote:
J-d,
Thank you so much for the info. I printed it out so I can keep referring to it when searching. So then a 97 460 wouldn't be all that bad from the sounds of it. And I'll make sure it has the 4 speed with OD regardless of engine. Just in case we actually get to a flat area in the road. lol

All 460 / 7.5 V8's after 1995 had a four speed and fuel injection and will be fine for what you want.

Bear in mind however. A) most people with a shorter (24') C find the RV is maneuverabile enough to drive nearly anywhere and you might not need a towed vehicle, and b) anything you tow will have a very real impact on where you're going to drive, and your fuel mileage.

[applik]

J-d,
Thank you so much for the info. I printed it out so I can keep referring to it when searching. So then a 97 460 wouldn't be all that bad from the sounds of it. And I'll make sure it has the 4 speed with OD regardless of engine. Just in case we actually get to a flat area in the road. lol

[j-d]

Your ^^^post here^^^ is spot-on. The majority of Class C's you'll find in your year (read that price) range will be on Ford. The early ones with 460 then 1997 and later with V10.

I believe the following to be true:

460 went EFI (throttle body/TBI, not the newwer more sophisticated MPI (multiple port) starting 1989. I believe (haven't dug into this) they stayed with the C6 transmission (three speed automatic, no overdrive) through 1991

Then, 1992... Body style changed from the angular 1975-91 look to the rounded 1992-2007 look. I do not know if they changed the EFI to MPI right away or not. What they DID do is go to E4OD (four speed overdrive automatic) which is an improvement. By 1996, the 460 was pretty slick. MPI, serpentine belts, totally modern.

Time out. I'm talking CHASSIS years. RV's are sold and usually titled by the manufacturer's designated model year and often the chassis is prior year. In some years, that's important. Example, you go look at a "1992" Class C and find the old angluar chassis (1991) with TBI and the C6. The next "1992" you look at is rounded, has overdrive, might be MPI. Other years are not that critical. Our "2003" is on a 2002 chassis and I wouldn't really care if it was on 2001, 2002 or 2003 since those years were very similar.

1997-1999 was first of the V10's with 275-HP and about the same performance as the last of the 460's. Some of those engines had problems with spark plug threads. At least some of that trouble seems to have been from improper mechanics. E4OD was modified all so slightly and named 4R100.

2000 and later V10's went to 305-HP with "Performance Improved" heads that also addressed the spark plug issue.

All Class C V10's are "two valve" engines and their top HP is 305. Some will talk about 362-HP, "three valve" engines. These are F-Series (pickups and Class A's) ONLY. This also relates to why a diesel class C is no big deal. They are NOT all spun up like the ones in pickups. Space and heat dissipation conditions dictate this. Very mediocre driving experience.

Chances are the true Class C's you find will be wide-bodied, about 101" across the house body. There ARE downsized C's often referred to as B+ and those are narrower, lower, and usually shorter than true C's which have a big cabover overhang, usually with bunks but sometimes entertainment center. B+ has only an aerodynamic fairing between chassis cab and fron to house body.

[applik]

I did find a short 24' 350 based unit with a V10. Would it pull the jeep better than say a 29' unit with V10? We're used to a V10 Dodge Magnum 2500 that pulled that trailer like a cheetah with it's tail on fire! Have a feeling we're just gonna have to get used to a Ford from the sounds of it. Will try to test drive a couple. Problem is we have to travel quite a ways to do so. That's why I'm trying to get some info before we decide which ones to make the trips for. The only As I could find were in the 32' range and I think that's too long for mountain curves where we go.
I looked online and they said 89 first year for FI on 460. So the years I'm looking at should be ok without major overhaul. I don't think we want to get that involved with a mechanical overhaul.

[Hank85713]

The 460 will depend on if carbed or fuel injected, I would recommend you go to a ford based website such as ford truck enthusists and ask your question there. If you find something you like but it has a carb, there are FI kits available if you say your other 1/2 is capable of mech work. The v10s late model are OK but I would still rather have a diesel. we have 2012 e450 with the 3 valve V10 cant really say anything about the 2 valve jobs.

The chebbies referred to are later models than you are looking for I believe? There are some diesel rigs out there but they command a high price and really are not all that powerful in a van/rv. Most likely you would find an old 6.9 or early 7.3. The 7.3 can get some aftermarket help, not much the 6.9.i