Beginning the search for our next B - Lots of Questions

[jakegw2]

After 8 years (filled with lots of family camping) in our Pleasureway Traverse DW and I decided it is time to start the search for our next camper van. With two daughters (11 & 2) the Traverse is really at its limit and since we may have an addition in the future starting the replacement search now makes a lot of sense. Class B options for a young family have improved considerably in the past few years and we decided to check them all out in one place by taking a trip to the Hershey RV show this week. We found several very interesting class B models and would love to hear from current owners of each one and get the details of what they are like to live with.

Before I start with our impressions of the different models I just want to say that I had read a lot prior to the show and came into it leaning toward the Mercedes chassis based on the many positive comments I have seen about it. However, after seeing the Promaster chassis in person I realized that it has a lot to offer. The walls are more vertical and it is around 7" wider which makes a big difference in the feel of the interior. All of the Mercedes platforms felt somewhat cramped inside, and between the high price and the cramped interior we crossed the Roadtrek RS off our list pretty much as soon as we saw it. Also, although it is not mentioned in the individual unit comments below I spent time in the showers of each of the units we looked at and decided that they were all adequate for me.


Here are the models that ended up on our short list by the second day of the show along with our initial impressions:

The Winnebago Travato 59G - This was both of our favorite of the class B vans almost from the moment we saw it. We love that you can keep the adult murphy bed (the most comfortable bed we tried in any of the B's) made up all the time and that it has forward facing seats for the kids. The shower is very nice as well, large and private - good for use with a family. With the bed up there is room to use it for hauling lumber or furniture when needed. Unfortunately it has seating for only two children (and they would need to be children to fit too), so we reluctantly had to cross it off our list.

The Roadtrek Zion SRT - A new model for Roadtrek and my personal next favorite layout of the class B's that we looked at. I like how open it feels and how even though it has 3 rear seatbelts there is enough room across the exceptionally wide rear bench to put a fourth seatbelt and have room for a friend for a day trip. There is room for one of the kids to sleep on the front cab bed option (that sits across the driver & passenger seats) and due to the wide isle and flat floor there is room for two more to sleep, with one under the main bed (a really nice sized space for a kid and probably quite comfortable with a self-inflating sleeping pad, while they are small anyway).

I will add an aside here - With any unit we pick we will probably continue to have my older daughter sleep in her own tent when we are in campgrounds like we do now, but really want the option to have her inside so we can dry camp in a parking lot while traveling if needed or during a rainy one-night stopover on a trip.

In addition, it is only 19' 9" long, an advantage it shares with the 59G when it comes to driving and parking as a second vehicle (like we do with our Traverse) in the Northeast where we live. It also had a compressor fridge, which we have enjoyed on our Traverse and far prefer over the 3-way units. I liked that there was a macerator pump on the unit - a critical item for us to be able to empty the tanks at home into a drainpipe cleanout.

There were downsides however - storage was quite limited. You could have the extra passengers but nowhere to put their stuff. I am not sure why they did not put a large overhead cabinet in the rear like the ERA, it seemed like there was space for it and it is certainly needed. There is no outdoor storage. The rear bed was just barely long enough for me. We were also put off by the strong offgasing of the cupboards (it was particularly powerful when opening a drawer). It gave DW a headache when we visited the Roadtrek display at the beginning of the first day of the show. The second day we visited the Winnebago section first and then came to the RT section in the afternoon - she got a headache again after just a few minutes in the Zion. This was with all the doors open and the fan on the whole time. Do other people have a problem with the smell? Does it get better over time?

In addition to the smell a huge surprise to me was that the Roadtrek cabinetry and hardware felt flimsy and cheaply made compared to the Winnebagos we looked at (yes, you read that right - several parts were even broken on the RT display models just from people opening cupboards and panels during the show). I would never have expected this since the RT pricing is much higher and they have had a long time to get these sorts of details worked out. Between the smell (the real deal-killer) and the storage we have tentatively crossed the Zion off of our list.

The Roadtrek 210 Popular - This model was not really on our list initially but was much more attractive when we looked at it in person. I liked that it was lower height then the Promaster and Mercedes units (only 8' 9" tall compared to 9' 5" for the Zion or 9' 11" for the ERA) and still a shorter length then the Era. Inside it felt roomy and had a large amount of storage. There is enough seating for the family and the mount points for the rear bench seatbelts make it easy to add a third one in the back giving us room to bring a friend along on day trips. The bed was easily the largest of any that we looked at with lots of room to stretch out without hitting a wall or cabinet. One thing that really stood out to me was the huge amount of outdoor storage spread over four different compartments. Not only is there lots of storage space inside but all of the messy stuff you bring on a trip can stay outside with this unit. It was equipped with a macerator pump and a compressor fridge, both of which are big pluses for us.

The real downside here was the sleeping situation. The floor is uneven, so finding places where a second or third child can sleep is very difficult. The best we could tell is that one child could sleep on the floor in the center (blocking the restroom and sleeping on a potentially wet shower area). Not a great option which would force us to set up a tent outside for one or more of the kids most of the time. This unit we looked at had a similar (though less intense) smell issue. It also had cabinetry flimsiness, cabinetry hardware problems, and other accessory quality issues like what we observed on the Zion. I would not say that this model is completely off of our list, but it is not on the top.

The Winnebago ERA 70X - Going into the show this model was dimly on my radar, I knew about it but it just seemed too big. Well having seen it in person I can say that it still seems too big to me, enormously long on the outside. Inside however it was very, very nice. The seating for four in the front means that the younger kids can be near us while driving, and it also means there is lots of room to use if for bringing friends along or helping with rides. Of the Mercedes units we looked at it had the most open feeling, a little too narrow for my taste but still generally open.

There is a huge amount of overhead storage all around the unit along with lots of storage lower down as well. I would say it easily had the most interior storage of any of the units we looked at (This helps as there is no exterior storage). In addition, I was very impressed by the quality of the cabinetry. I have read about older versions of the ERA having poor cabinetry, but what I saw at the show was all quality hardware, excellent solid construction, and a very good level of fit and finish - much better then the Roadtreks.

The rear bed is large, not as big as the one in the 210 but still quite good. Sleeping arrangements for children would be the center isle toward the front and across the cab seats. Not perfect, but pretty reasonable for at least two, and in a pinch three if they are small in the floor space available while still leaving the bathroom accessible. The under-bed area is not really ideal because of the useless (in my opinion) table mount that keeps the floor there from being level (perhaps it could be removed?). Also, why would anyone put carpet in an RV? Have they never been camping? Seriously, hard flooring is the only way to go, so we would have to look at removing it from the rear of the ERA.

The unit had a macerator pump but unfortunately it had a 3-way fridge, a real concern as leveling such a large unit seems challenging to me. There are also lots of questions that I failed to ask at the show and are unaddressed on the website. How much battery capacity does it have? Can it be expanded? Does it have an inverter to allow AC devices to be powered from the battery? Does Winnebago use a quality charge controller in the current version (I have read that early versions did not have 'smart' charge controllers and could damage the AGM batteries). There are still a lot of the not easily visible details to look into further. I am interested in hearing feedback from owners of newer ERA models.

My impression is that Winnebago has made huge improvements to the ERA in the last 2 or 3 years and would like to hear the experiences of owners of these later models. I am also very interested to know your experiences with driving it. My concern is that it will be too big to use as a second car and that it will not be practical to drive in the winter. Both of these capabilities are important to us as we need two vehicles in the family and having to purchase (and park) a third vehicle presents several problems that can be completely avoided if our camper van can just be used when it is needed.

Despite the outstanding questions that we have we left the RV show with the ERA is at the top of our list for further investigation. We would still very much like to hear from Roadtrek owners about the cabinetry smell and about the experience of owning the 210P.

If anyone can provide comments about the driving differences between the Chevy, Mercedes, and Promaster chassis we would be interested in hearing about that as well. We are familar with our Ford van chassis and while it is not terribly difficult to drive it is certainly not like driving a car - the turn radius is huge and while it can be parked pretty much anywhere (only 17' long) it can be difficult to get in and out because of the large turning radius. It looks like test drives of the different models will be our next step.

Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

[black88mx6]

dicktill wrote:


fridge / 3-way or compressor: I wouldn't base my choice of a rig on this criteria. We have a 3-way, and have NEVER used a single one of our couple dozen "Lego blocks" that we've lugged everywhere, and never had much trouble getting "level enough" in any of the campgrounds, boon-docking spots, or roadside spots we've camped in. I think that two or three times in a hilly Walmart (or similar) parking lot, we had to hunt around for a semi-level spot. Bear in mind that being enough out-of-level for the 3-way fridge probably won't be real comfortable for sleeping either. And finally, a number of people have changed out their 3-way fridges for a compressor unit; it ain't rocket science.

Best of luck, Dick

I agree 100% on this, along with propane seems to last a LONG time and is available everywhere.

[dicktill]

I can't help you with most of your concerns and questions, but can offer comments on two topics.

Size / Class B vs. Class C, etc.: My wife and I (only!) have traveled over 40k miles in our RT09/10C190P, our longest trip being around 4 months. Sorry, but I can't imagine traveling with even one more person, let alone two or three for very long. YMMV! I do agree that having a smaller unit is highly advantageous in many situations: we were (barely) able to negotiate the famous, downhill, winding block of Lombard Street in San Francisco! If parking a longer/wider unit at your house is a major show stopper, as you indicated, perhaps you can find a nearby storage place for it?

fridge / 3-way or compressor: I wouldn't base my choice of a rig on this criteria. We have a 3-way, and have NEVER used a single one of our couple dozen "Lego blocks" that we've lugged everywhere, and never had much trouble getting "level enough" in any of the campgrounds, boon-docking spots, or roadside spots we've camped in. I think that two or three times in a hilly Walmart (or similar) parking lot, we had to hunt around for a semi-level spot. Bear in mind that being enough out-of-level for the 3-way fridge probably won't be real comfortable for sleeping either. And finally, a number of people have changed out their 3-way fridges for a compressor unit; it ain't rocket science.

Best of luck, Dick

[black88mx6]

jakegw2 wrote:
Sounds like an interesting setup, could I talk you into posting a picture of it by any chance?

I would prefer to wait until my warranty is up before I post pics. 🙂

[jakegw2]

Sounds like an interesting setup, could I talk you into posting a picture of it by any chance?

[black88mx6]

jakegw2 wrote:
Black88mx6 - How are you working your sleeping arrangements in the ERA? Does it include an inverter? Can you run the microwave off of the battery?

A few people so far have mentioned that with all of the equipment underneath winter travel & use should be limited. It would be a big loss for us, we use our van frequently even in the winter right now (a warm place to come back to after sledding for example).

Sleeping seems to be the most asked question. We use camping hammocks supported by the two front seats. Some pvc cut in half was used to support lines across the top of the seat anchored to the seat base. We can sleep one extra with sleeping mat for a total of five a it tight.

For winter remember the propane tank and other hanging items including generator that is not have any coating or rust proofing. Any side cutouts for appliances, all areas for rust on an expensive chassis. Not something to destroy in the winter other than limited use unless no salt is used in your area.

No inverter at this time, and unlikely to use microwave with only two agm batteries. Easy enough to use generator for microwave or ac if not plugged in has made this a non issue for us. We don't live full time in it.

[jakegw2]

Black88mx6 - How are you working your sleeping arrangements in the ERA? Does it include an inverter? Can you run the microwave off of the battery?

A few people so far have mentioned that with all of the equipment underneath winter travel & use should be limited. It would be a big loss for us, we use our van frequently even in the winter right now (a warm place to come back to after sledding for example).

[black88mx6]

We have a 2016 170X and travel with 2 boys ages 8 and 10. Did a lot of searching including contacting Advanced RV since we are in Ohio. At time they were not interested in doing bunks, but it seems like that has changed as they are building one now.

We have traveled about 10K, so far in the last 3 months, and have really gotten to know our ERA. Overall we are pleased with the unit at the price we purchased it new at.

Winter travel/use in any of these VAN's will tear them up. There is just too much added underneath that will be damaged by salt and winter. Limited / occasional use is your best bet here.

Any questions you have send them and I will try and respond.

[mumkin]

Just for your info... GWV is no longer in business. We don't know if this is permanent or temporary. It seems it may be permanent.

[buta4]

Sailordive wrote:
Sportsmobile is truly customizable. While the Califronia location does a lot of 4x4 that is certainly not the focus of Austin location. You pick the van and pick the layout that fits your needs.

X2

[Sailordive]

Sportsmobile is truly customizable. While the Califronia location does a lot of 4x4 that is certainly not the focus of Austin location. You pick the van and pick the layout that fits your needs.

[victor24]

I am in the hunting process for a class B no longer than 22 foot. I have never owned and RV and want to travel alone short trips at first then longer trips. A RV i can use around town and drive on a regular basis so it does not just sit. Mother is in nursing home so stay close to Florida for now. My dilemma is finding a unit I like. Leaning to Pleasure Way and MidWest with Mercedes. Two of the big dealers in Florida located in Lakeland and Nokomis Fl have a really bad rep.about service after the sale. Any help from forum members would be greatly appreciated wand welcome. Thank you in advance 🙂

[bkroczak]

You can order the longer Zion with a front-facing sofa bed. It looks just the same at the back then as a Roadtrek 190 for example.

[cbigham]

You...are looking for a winnebago view..

[studio_driver]

As an owner of a PW Excel, I have no specific experience with any of the models you describe. However, I would like to offer a few comments.

Although traveling in a Class B with children may be feasible at a given time, it might become rapidly crowded knowing how fast kids can grow. With the cost of Bs these days, specially new ones, you may be faced with an expensive upgrade in a short time.

You also mention using the B as a second vehicle. I notice you live in the North-East where snow and salt on the road may be frequent. It might have been OK with the Traverse that has few items under the belly but the more elaborate units you examined have far more equipment under the belly that could deteriorate quickly. They may also be more challenging to drive on winter roads.

Have you considered a small trailer pulled by a car or pick-up? That might fit most of your criteria although I admit that is much less convenient as a B for driving and parking.

I also agree that most Bs are made for 2 people, and if they travel with kids, these are likely of the "furry" kind.

Good luck in your quest.

Alain

[GENECOP]

Another option, a little more complicated but with exchange rates as they are it could work nicely, Safari Condo, they are a Canadian Company that do a real different kind of B, Definataly geared toward a small family...