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Brake caught on fire, getting ready to tow for first time

rgnprof
Explorer
Explorer
I have a '93 Class C on Ford E350 chassis with the 460 motor. I have my Subaru Forester set up to tow with Blue OX Alpha tow bar, Blue Ox baseplate, and the Autostop system from Blue Ox. Took it for a test drive yesterday - no problems with the toad, but my motorhome brakes got really hot. The front left pad caught on fire! Made it safely to our church, after extinguishing the small flame and proceeded to tear things apart.

I'm pretty sure the caliper froze up on that side - I couldn't budge it. Rotor was blueish, so I changed everything on both sides - new hoses, rotors, pads and calipers. The guy I bought this motorhome just called and suggested better rotors, although the rotors that I replaced look just like the new ones - they were not slotted or anything, but he said he was told that these rotors get so hot, that special rotors were recommended to him. Again, the rotors I had on it were on there when I bought the MH from him 4-5 years ago, and I have put 15k miles on the motorhome. I did just have the rotors turned, did the front wheel bearings and new pads about 2k miles ago...in December.

I'm hoping that this was just caused by a bad caliper, but I'm a little anxious about hitting the road this weekend. Any advice? (I bought these rotors at O'Reilly's...).

Thanks,
Ryan
11 REPLIES 11

j-d
Explorer II
Explorer II
They WILL get hot, but it shouldn't feel like you're walking up to a BBQ grill. That's how ours was. Does it feel like the brakes are being applied on their own?

I don't think your year has Anti-lock Front Brakes. Are you able to confirm that? They're a mystery to me, but I suppose an ABS could cause the brakes to not release once applied. From the little I've read an Anti-lock failure cause Anti-lock to not help prevent a skid. Not keep brakes from being applied.

BOTH rotors are hot? About equally? If so:

1. Brake linkage could be mis-adjusted or binding up. This would be the same as "riding the brake" by not completely removing your foot when finished braking.

2. What can happen is the compensating port in the master cylinder can "heal up" with corrosion. Check this diagram:

The pushrod to your brake pedal/booster is to the RIGHT, so Brakes apply as the Piston moves Right-to-Left. As pictured, the Brake Pedal is NOT depressed (meaning a physical pushing down by the driver's foot as opposed to an emotional state of not being able to cope with life in general). Note that the Compensating Ports (which are drawn in the illustration as small, notice that) allow fluid to return to the cylinder's reservoir chambers. If the compensating ports are not open, fluid is trapped between the RELEASED master cylinder piston and the pistons in the calipers. This causes the brakes to drag. The dragging creates heat. The heat expands the fluid. Expanded fluid, more pressure, more braking... An Intervention is required. I rebuild the master cylinder in a Toyota we had, TWICE, before I noticed a little speck in the bore. Looked from the top and saw a hole headed down to the speck and my light didn't shine through. I couldn't poke a wire through there, required a small drill bit. NOTE: If you do this at home, hone the bore again in case the drilling put a burr in there. ANYHOW, Ron, the key to troubleshooting this is: Drive it till the brakes get hot. Ideally you'd jack the front end up, get at least one wheel off the ground. I think you'd find the wheel won't turn. Open the bleeder on the OPPOSITE side. Fluid should spurt out as it does when you're bleeding the brakes. Except nobody's pushing the pedal... At that point, the wheel you raised should turn more easily. Repeat the process, jacking the side you released at the bleeder the first time. Release the bleeder on the side you jacked the first time. Fluid should spurt and the jacked wheel should be released.
--OR-- you could drive till brakes got hot and just crack the brake line at the master cylinder. If fluid spurts, you know there was unreleased pressure in the lines.
You just have to be sure the Master Cylinder is fully released. The Pistons have to be all the way to the RIGHT as shown in the diagram so the compensating ports are open to the reservoirs.

Disk brake system is much more likely to plug the comp port than a drum system. Disks don't have Springs pulling the Calipers and Pads back from the Rotors. Fluid doesn't gush back like with Drums which have Return Springs at their Shoes.

If you still have my number, you're welcome to call.
If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

rgnprof
Explorer
Explorer
Just took it for a quick spin - rotors are smoking and getting really hot still - 250-300F. Any thoughts??

ryan

rgnprof
Explorer
Explorer
Thanks - you guys have made me feel better (I'm a psychologist, so that's important - ha). I did not change the caliper pins - didn't even think about it as I have limited experience with Fords. Should I? I did clean off the old ones and used some synthetic grease on them...

I did bleed and re-bleed the fronts with a power bleeder several times - but I did not bleed the rears - should I?

Ryan

phillyg
Explorer II
Explorer II
Ford caliper pins are notorious for freezing in place during long periods of no useage. I wouldn't be concerned about "special" rotors.
--2005 Ford F350 Lariat Crewcab 6.0, 4x4, 3.73 rear
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j-d
Explorer II
Explorer II
Not uncommon, but unpredictable, frustrating and potentially dangerous. I had all the parts, taken off on another project, but shipping would be prohibitive and I scrapped them
It happened to me. Passenger side caliper locked up. I went and got Pads, Calipers and Hoses. Changed the stuck side on site at the campground, then the other side when we got home. If you changed Hubs/Rotors you found out how tight those caliper bracket bolts are! I wasn't happy with the results and had the rotors re-surfaced ("turned") and much better. BUT...
The fix that blows all the fancy exotic fancy pads and rotors into the weeds is getting late model take-off parts from an outfit that converts Ford Vans to 4x4. I got a "full kit" which was both axles, the brakes, radius arms, and miscellaneous parts. So our 2002 has NEW 2012 rotors, calipers, pads (all much larger), axles, ball joints, bushings and latest generation of radius arms. I drew the job out, spreading over a couple weeks, but actual work was probably 2-1/2 days, by myself, in the driveway.
For this job, Ron, be sure bearings are packed, seals are good, and you changed hoses along with the calipers, pads, and apparently rotors.
If God's Your Co-Pilot Move Over, jd
2003 Jayco Escapade 31A on 2002 Ford E450 V10 4R100 218" WB

USAFBILL
Explorer
Explorer
Perhaps they brake line is not releasing the pressure when you release the brake pedal.....that was my problem on mine,check valva or what ever it is called. Cheap and easy to replace after you confirm it is at fault
2003 Cougar 285EFS
2000 Chev 2500 Ex Cab

charlie_good_ti
Explorer
Explorer
Reminder to all!!!!In motor home any time you smell fire get all people out!Seconds count.Than address problem.

snowdance
Explorer
Explorer
On the Class C with the cabover bed its real common for the water from rain, fog, AC ect to drip off the front and often on the front wheel. It will splash on the calipers thru the vent in the wheel and wash the grease off them over time. We went thru that and now just cover the front wheels most every time we stop for the night to keep them dry. Unlike most that cover them for the sun.
Snowdance

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fitznj
Explorer
Explorer
On vehicles that do not get used frequently, moisture attacks everything and it's not unusual for calipers to freeze - rust forms around the piston and does not allow the piston to retract properly.

It sounds like you have done everything - except bleeding the system - your brake fluid got REALLY hot and needs to be replaced.

BTW - also, don't set the park brake if you are going to park the vehicle for more than a few weeks and is possible, take the vehicle 10-15 mile trip each month. I had a couple of classic cars which deteriorated quicker if not used - I got in the habit of taking them for a drive every month to keep all systems functioning.

Gerry
Gerry

Executive45
Explorer III
Explorer III
Also, invest in a TPMS such as the ones from TST, Truck System Technologies. They monitor temperatures also and will alert you if one of the calipers get stuck....anything is better than a fire...Dennis
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Grandpere
Explorer
Explorer
Sounds to me like you have done everything that can be done to correct the problem. Take the MH & toad on another test run just to be safe then hit the road.
Berniece & Russell Johnson
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