Canadian prices too high on used units? Cheaper to import?

[cvbdsl]

Ok, this applies to us living north of the border. I'm starting to get frustrated with a lot of Canadian dealers, especially in Ontario. Long-winded post so please bear with me.

When I'm looking (as I'm seriously doing this week) I use the NADA low and average retail as aguide- stress guide and 30% added for the CAD dollar difference. However dealers seem to be adding 40-50% on to their prices with a take it or leave it attitude.

So my question is, is it getting to the point where I can bring a MH into Canada cheaper myself?

Here is my thought process on how the dollars work out. Same theoretical motorhome in Canada and US, priced at $100K USD in the US and should be priced at $130K in CAD using NADA as a guide.

If I buy in the US I loose any sales tax credit on my trade so I'm thinking it works as follows;

Buy in the US (using an exchange rate of 30%)
Asking price $100K USD
Maybe get $45K USD in trade (taking $5K of off NADA low)
I pay $55K USD or or roughly $71,500 CAD
Add sales tax of $16,900K CAD (13% on the full value in CAD - $130K)
Total cost before any misc fees for import $88,400 CAD

Buying in Canada ideal price
So asking price $130K CAD (assuming realistic markup)
Maybe $45K CAD in trade (even though avg NADA is more like 58K)
I pay $85K CAD plus
sales tax on $85K = $11,505 CAD
Total cost should be = $96,505 CAD


OK, a $8100 CAD difference cheaper in the US based on NADA average.
(The trade in value above in CAD is based on current discussions with lowball dealers offer not NADA average with 30% )


Based on what I've been looking at Canadian dealers are not using NADA average (though they actually say they use it), actual asking price on the MH in Canada for a $100K USD MH is usually around $150K, so potentially I can save $20K going to the US right of the bat.

Actual example on a MH I asked a dealer about. NADA plus 30$ put it at $179K CAD, dealer told me it was $220K CAD. Where did the extra $40K come from? Oh yeah, he told me a tag cost $80K more than non-tag, even used.

So is anyone else thinking of going this route? Also any idea on the import cost? I know there will be at least a couple of grand extra.

Any flaws in my thinking?

Ok, end of my rant.

thanks

Chris

[shum02]

Check these.

Government of Canada - Importing a Vehicle

Registrar of Imported Vehicles

More facts, less rumors and internet lore.

[lonewolf80]

Jax and Moisheh, I hope the two of you aren't referencing me when you write that "lone wolf poster", because if you are, you have me confused with someone else on this forum or another. No I'm not a dealer and I certainly don't live in Canada, like Jax, so I would have no idea nor care to know any Province law. Especially when I review my post regarding the conversation about buying in Canada or the U.S. and what would be the best course of action. If the two of you disagree with letting professionals handle the transaction for the OP why not just state it and your reasons why?

[JaxDad]

moisheh wrote:
Jaqtech: No matter what you use for logic that lone wolf poster will never stop his rantings. He has been on many forums with the same mantra. Usually posters just start to ignore him.

Moisheh

Yup, after several years of me quoting laws in several Provinces one lone wolf has his head stuck firmly in the sand and refuses to accept reality, and the LAW.

I can only assume it's because he's admitted to breaking those laws over & over again.

[moisheh]

Jaqtech: No matter what you use for logic that lone wolf poster will never stop his rantings. He has been on many forums with the same mantra. Usually posters just start to ignore him. I can never understand his logic. I really think he is either connected to an RV dealer or maybe is a dealer. It would be a shame if a forum member was planning on importing a vehicle and changed his mind due to those erroneous posts.

Moisheh

[Jagtech]

There's much discussion about meeting CSA standards or criteria. But understand this: CSA is NOT a government agency in Canada. The CSA Group is a private not-for-profit standards organization only. They don't make the regulations, they only suggest certain minimum standards.
As an aside, I once bought a piece of electrical apparatus that had a CSA certification label. If it had been plugged in and put into service, someone would have been electrocuted....
I'm not a fan of CSA.

[lonewolf80]

Like others have stated, sell your currant rig in Canada first. Then you will have cash in hand, providing your rig is paid off, and maybe get a better deal by not having to haggle two prices, trade in value on a Canadian rig, and purchase price of the new (used) rig. I would think any large dealer in Florida should be able to handle the export paperwork, it isn't like Canadians spending winters down there is rare.

[tropical36]

cvbdsl wrote:
Ok, this applies to us living north of the border. I'm starting to get frustrated with a lot of Canadian dealers, especially in Ontario. Long-winded post so please bear with me.

When I'm looking (as I'm seriously doing this week) I use the NADA low and average retail as aguide- stress guide and 30% added for the CAD dollar difference. However dealers seem to be adding 40-50% on to their prices with a take it or leave it attitude.

So my question is, is it getting to the point where I can bring a MH into Canada cheaper myself?

Here is my thought process on how the dollars work out. Same theoretical motorhome in Canada and US, priced at $100K USD in the US and should be priced at $130K in CAD using NADA as a guide.

If I buy in the US I loose any sales tax credit on my trade so I'm thinking it works as follows;

Buy in the US (using an exchange rate of 30%)
Asking price $100K USD
Maybe get $45K USD in trade (taking $5K of off NADA low)
I pay $55K USD or or roughly $71,500 CAD
Add sales tax of $16,900K CAD (13% on the full value in CAD - $130K)
Total cost before any misc fees for import $88,400 CAD

Buying in Canada ideal price
So asking price $130K CAD (assuming realistic markup)
Maybe $45K CAD in trade (even though avg NADA is more like 58K)
I pay $85K CAD plus
sales tax on $85K = $11,505 CAD
Total cost should be = $96,505 CAD


OK, a $8100 CAD difference cheaper in the US based on NADA average.
(The trade in value above in CAD is based on current discussions with lowball dealers offer not NADA average with 30% )


Based on what I've been looking at Canadian dealers are not using NADA average (though they actually say they use it), actual asking price on the MH in Canada for a $100K USD MH is usually around $150K, so potentially I can save $20K going to the US right of the bat.

Actual example on a MH I asked a dealer about. NADA plus 30$ put it at $179K CAD, dealer told me it was $220K CAD. Where did the extra $40K come from? Oh yeah, he told me a tag cost $80K more than non-tag, even used.

So is anyone else thinking of going this route? Also any idea on the import cost? I know there will be at least a couple of grand extra.

Any flaws in my thinking?

Ok, end of my rant.

thanks

Chris

Can't add much to this, except from the sound of it, I'd be selling my old coach in Canada and probably be buying in Florida come summertime. The state is loaded with them, then and they're anxious to deal. Best to be looking for a consignment dealer, for the best prices and for handling all the paper work.
You can get a lot of coach in the $100K range and depending on what you're looking for.

[JaxDad]

moisheh wrote:
The vehicle does not have to meet Canadian standards. It has to have a US Federal plaque that states it meets the US standard. If it is on the list provided by Registrar of Imported Vheicles it is OK......

Moisheh

I hate to interrupt a perfectly good lecture, but if it's a US vehicle it would obviously meet US standards.

Why then do you think RIV says some are acceptable for import to Canada while lots of others are not?

I'll bet it's because they have to meet Canadian standards........




BTW, i notice the post about the legality of non-CSA compliant RV's in Manitoba was not committed on.

Same as the dozen others over the past few years.......

[moisheh]

The odometer does not have to read in km. The vehicle does not have to meet Canadian standards. It has to have a US Federal plaque that states it meets the US standard. If it is on the list provided by Registrar of Imported Vheicles it is OK, I think a 1996 may be allowed today without all of the above due to age. But not sure.

Moisheh

[Hikerdogs]

One thing lightly skipped over in the document to prepare your vehicle for import is that it has to meet the Canadian motor vehicle standards. That may not be an issue if you intend to purchase a relatively new motorhome. However if you're looking at one built in the 1990's or earlier there could be issues.

A friend of ours (Canadian citizen) purchased a 1996 Winnebago Chieftain to import to Canada. She didn't realize the older models aren't necessarily compliant with current Canadian standards. Part of the vehicle inspection was to be sure the speedometer and odometer would read in kilometers. Her's didn't and it cost a bundle to be compliant. The speedometer was easy in that they just applied decals in the proper places to read KPH. The odometer was a bit more complicated in that not only did the speed sensor ratio need to be changed, but the odometer itself had to be removed and reset to show the accumulated kilometers.

The inspection and related changes to make the vehicle compliant cost a little over $1,800.00. Hopefully the newer vehicles won't need as many changes.

[moisheh]

cvbds: Good post! BTW One of the reasons you saw so many units that were junk is that the dealers buy lots of US auction units. Repos and junk that other dealers do not want to sell to their customers.


Moisheh

[cvbdsl]

OK, OP here with sort of a follow-up.

DW and I just completed a 1200KM (around 800 miles)trip to view three motor-homes in southern Ontario. Unfortunately the best one (2008 Super Nova) did not meet our requirements (DW insists on washer dryer).
A 2007 Holiday Rambler was a mess and would require $10-20K inside and who knows about the chassis.
A 2011 Georgetown had been hit hard in the back and poorly repaired.

So all three were at different dealers, each with large inventories. I had a look at other units on their lots as well.

Not one used motor-home on any lot that we saw had a CSA sticker!
Many used units had current Ontario plates on them, so have been on the road before. Others such as recently imported from the US had no plates.

So I guess all these dealers are selling "illegal" motor-homes and therefore would be liable in the event of any issue? :h



Chris

[JaxDad]

moisheh wrote:
Like you stated one must follow all the steps correctly.

Moisheh

From the Province of Manitoba's website;

"The Manitoba Office of the Fire Commissioner has a responsibility to ensure that any recreational vehicle for sale or rent in the Province of Manitoba complies with the Canadian Standards Association construction standard CAN/CSA Z240 requirements .....

..... This means you cannot sell a recreational vehicle unless it displays an approval label to show it
is certtified."

[moisheh]

Rainbirds. The decent dealers in AZ take Canadian trades all the time. They never wholesale it to Canada. That is just salesman talk. However it is better to sell your own unit in Canada. BTW I have sold all my units in Canada. They were all originally US units. All private sales. Never had any problems. I might also add that failing an inspection is rare. Canadian Tire usually does the import part. They look at : daytime running lights( CT has all the parts to add if necessary), must have US Federal safety sticker from the mfr) Might be a few other small items. If your Province requires a safety inspection I would hope you bought a unit that easily passed! The import (CT) inspection does not require any mechanical inspections> Like you stated one must follow all the steps correctly.

Moisheh

[Canadian_Rainbi]

Yes, the trade in might be a problem. We were looking for a replacement for our 1997 Triple E in 2008. The dealers in the US were not interested in a Canadian registered vehicle, though of course the Dutch Star would have been made in USA in the first place. The problems could be several-, most minor such as speed and mileages in miles, weights and load limits in kilograms and what may be the biggie, exported to Canada without the original post manufacture taxes paid.

I think your best bet would be to contact a US dealer about a suitable rig and see how much interest they would have in your trade in.

Where we bought out current Itasca Horizon in Mesa AZ, when we remarked on a 38' Triple E Commander the salesman perked right up and said "Right, you're Canadian! I can make you a huge deal on this, probably near wholesale. We'll probably have to wholesale it out to a Canadian dealer and there will be transport charges on top". Unfortunately it was too large for our driveway parking so we had to let it go. (Didn't ask the price) However we are still happy with the Horizon. Importing wasn't much of a big deal but you MUST follow ALL the steps. If it doesn't pass inspection it has to be out of the country in I think 45 days from date of import.