Class A Tire Blow and Roll-over

[lakebum]

I am sure this is old and has been posted before but made me wonder....

How much did the driver's actions play into the final outcome?

Link to YouTube video

[msmith1199]

gemert wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:

gemert wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:

gemert wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:
I still think it's a case of driving too fast. And over reacting.

He was in left lane passing and going too fast. Had he been driving the speed limit a coach towing should have been in the right lane, it wouldn't have flipped over when he tried to go around around what ever was laying in the road.

Over reacted at high speeds. Just saying. We will never know what really happened from just the video though.

And how can you tell he was speeding or going too fast! You would have to know how fast the truck was going and that wasn't given. I have been certified as a police speed radar Operator in Florida since 1989. Part of that is being able to estimate speed of moving traffic within 3 MPH. From the cab of a truck though it is unlikely that anyone can accurately estimate either vehicles speed without knowing at least one of them. Give the driver a break! I usually drive at 62 regardless of the speed limit (you know what I mean) and I even pass a truck every now and then.

Actually, assuming the video plays at actual speed, it would not be too difficult to figure out the speed mathematically based on the time and the stripes in the road. You would have to know the distance between the stripes.

LOL, I'm a retired Navy Chief and State Cop not a rocket Scientist. I just hate convicting some poor slob here on this super fair and friendly forum when we don't have the required info to do so. My sense of fair play I guess.

I'm a retired cop too. If I was investigating this crash and wanted to know the speed, I'd do the math.

My point exactly. I learned the formula in THI school but we don't have that info here!!! If we did we could. My point was that you cannot tell by the video. The driver deserves the benefit of the doubt here even though I will get blasted because I used three exclamation points when only one was actually required and probably not in that sentence!

I was referring to your comment that there was no way to tell the speed without knowing the speed of the truck. You even said, "From the cab of a truck though it is unlikely that anyone can accurately estimate either vehicles speed without knowing at least one of them." I was simply pointing out it could be done mathematically.

[rgatijnet1]

In Florida they used to have a catch all violation that they used with some accidents. It was "driving too fast for conditions". They would use this violation even if you weren't exceeding the speed limit but the current conditions made whatever speed you were traveling unsafe. To them it was obviously unsafe because you had an accident. Maybe they were right and that would be difficult to argue in court. In any case, it would apply to this situation since the coach was going too fast to be controlled in case of a tire failure.

[Mr_Mark1]

MSmith1199, you may be right, the cable barrier may have helped him, I guess we may never really know.

What we don't know is how much control he had while in the median. The cable certainly did grab the coach and took over control at that point.

I recall when the original video was released that the trucker spoke about his own speed. When I pull up the original youtube dash cam, there is no sound. I think the trucker said that he, personally, was going 70 mph. That's just what I remember and could be wrong.

What would be great is, if the the original guy driving the coach was on RV.net and could tell us exactly what he was doing and what went on, etc. That would be the icing on the cake.

Safe travels,
MM.

[azdryheat]

rockhillmanor wrote:

gemert wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:
I still think it's a case of driving too fast. And over reacting.

He was in left lane passing and going too fast. Had he been driving the speed limit a coach towing should have been in the right lane, it wouldn't have flipped over when he tried to go around around what ever was laying in the road.

Over reacted at high speeds. Just saying.

We will never know what really happened from just the video though.

And how can you tell he was speeding or going too fast! You would have to know how fast the truck was going and that wasn't given. I have been certified as a police speed radar Operator in Florida since 1989. Part of that is being able to estimate speed of moving traffic within 3 MPH. From the cab of a truck though it is unlikely that anyone can accurately estimate either vehicles speed without knowing at least one of them. Give the driver a break! I usually drive at 62 regardless of the speed limit (you know what I mean) and I even pass a truck every now and then.

Chill out, Glad you are certified radar reader. But This forum is for ALL to give their "opinion". And that is all there is to it, opinions.:W

Actually, Rock, you are trying to pass off your opinion as fact. You made the statement that the MH was, "going too fast" and not "driving the speed limit". So Rock, what exactly was his speed? By how much, exactly, was he exceeding the speed limit? So please, Rock, stick to the facts that we know, which in this case are zip.

[lakebum]

wa8yxm wrote:
If you search these forums, I believe there is a thread "Watching these videos may save your life" or something close to that.

Believe it.

Thanks, as a pilot, I have been used to watching and reading accident files for a long time, learning from others will hopefully keep us safer.

[Mile_High]

Mr.Mark wrote:

Mile High wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:

Mile High wrote:
I can't find it now, but I read the article about that roll-over, and the couple were elderly and walked away with minor injuries. The Driver said it caught him completely off guard. The article also credited the cable barrier for preventing him from crossing into oncoming traffic.

Saw this video about how to handle a blowout - All good info, but I honestly don't think I would automatically react the way they recommend.

Nevada Test Center

Don't know about the article you read but the cable barriers DID NOT prevent him from crossing in to oncoming traffic. If you click on my link above you will see that the coach ended up on it's side, with the truck, and it had slid all of the way across the oncoming lanes and stopped in the curb lane. It was fortunate that there was no traffic in the opposite direction at the time when the RV was sliding over.

Just saying what I read - wasn't there, don't care.

Found it by the way - it was actually a quote from the State Patrol, so take it for what it is worth.

Huffington Post

Just my own personal opinion, I don't think that the cable barrier was beneficial. Actually, I think that the cable barrier caused the motorhome to flip and go into oncoming traffic.


As I mentioned earlier, the guy driving the motorhome had it under control when he was in the middle of the median. The cable caught something under the motorhome causing it to flip.

If you have any interest, start the video and do a 'frame by frame' look, I think the barrier caused more problems than it helped.

Be safe out there!
MM.

I would kind of agree with you. There are a lot of politics around the cable barriers, as the manufacturers are really pushing for them and the jurisdictions with the highway test sections were under pressure for positive results - all my opinion and perception of course.

I personally get a "tingly neck" looking over at those and thinking about if I had to ram through them out of control in my regular car.

[rockhillmanor]

gemert wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:
I still think it's a case of driving too fast. And over reacting.

He was in left lane passing and going too fast. Had he been driving the speed limit a coach towing should have been in the right lane, it wouldn't have flipped over when he tried to go around around what ever was laying in the road.

Over reacted at high speeds. Just saying.

We will never know what really happened from just the video though.

And how can you tell he was speeding or going too fast! You would have to know how fast the truck was going and that wasn't given. I have been certified as a police speed radar Operator in Florida since 1989. Part of that is being able to estimate speed of moving traffic within 3 MPH. From the cab of a truck though it is unlikely that anyone can accurately estimate either vehicles speed without knowing at least one of them. Give the driver a break! I usually drive at 62 regardless of the speed limit (you know what I mean) and I even pass a truck every now and then.

Chill out, Glad you are certified radar reader. But This forum is for ALL to give their "opinion". And that is all there is to it, opinions.:W

[gemert]

msmith1199 wrote:

gemert wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:

gemert wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:
I still think it's a case of driving too fast. And over reacting.

He was in left lane passing and going too fast. Had he been driving the speed limit a coach towing should have been in the right lane, it wouldn't have flipped over when he tried to go around around what ever was laying in the road.

Over reacted at high speeds. Just saying. We will never know what really happened from just the video though.

And how can you tell he was speeding or going too fast! You would have to know how fast the truck was going and that wasn't given. I have been certified as a police speed radar Operator in Florida since 1989. Part of that is being able to estimate speed of moving traffic within 3 MPH. From the cab of a truck though it is unlikely that anyone can accurately estimate either vehicles speed without knowing at least one of them. Give the driver a break! I usually drive at 62 regardless of the speed limit (you know what I mean) and I even pass a truck every now and then.

Actually, assuming the video plays at actual speed, it would not be too difficult to figure out the speed mathematically based on the time and the stripes in the road. You would have to know the distance between the stripes.

LOL, I'm a retired Navy Chief and State Cop not a rocket Scientist. I just hate convicting some poor slob here on this super fair and friendly forum when we don't have the required info to do so. My sense of fair play I guess.

I'm a retired cop too. If I was investigating this crash and wanted to know the speed, I'd do the math.

My point exactly. I learned the formula in THI school but we don't have that info here!!! If we did we could. My point was that you cannot tell by the video. The driver deserves the benefit of the doubt here even though I will get blasted because I used three exclamation points when only one was actually required and probably not in that sentence!

[msmith1199]

gemert wrote:

msmith1199 wrote:

gemert wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:
I still think it's a case of driving too fast. And over reacting.

He was in left lane passing and going too fast. Had he been driving the speed limit a coach towing should have been in the right lane, it wouldn't have flipped over when he tried to go around around what ever was laying in the road.

Over reacted at high speeds. Just saying. We will never know what really happened from just the video though.

And how can you tell he was speeding or going too fast! You would have to know how fast the truck was going and that wasn't given. I have been certified as a police speed radar Operator in Florida since 1989. Part of that is being able to estimate speed of moving traffic within 3 MPH. From the cab of a truck though it is unlikely that anyone can accurately estimate either vehicles speed without knowing at least one of them. Give the driver a break! I usually drive at 62 regardless of the speed limit (you know what I mean) and I even pass a truck every now and then.

Actually, assuming the video plays at actual speed, it would not be too difficult to figure out the speed mathematically based on the time and the stripes in the road. You would have to know the distance between the stripes.

LOL, I'm a retired Navy Chief and State Cop not a rocket Scientist. I just hate convicting some poor slob here on this super fair and friendly forum when we don't have the required info to do so. My sense of fair play I guess.

I'm a retired cop too. If I was investigating this crash and wanted to know the speed, I'd do the math.

[msmith1199]

Mr.Mark wrote:

Mile High wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:

Mile High wrote:
I can't find it now, but I read the article about that roll-over, and the couple were elderly and walked away with minor injuries. The Driver said it caught him completely off guard. The article also credited the cable barrier for preventing him from crossing into oncoming traffic.

Saw this video about how to handle a blowout - All good info, but I honestly don't think I would automatically react the way they recommend.

Nevada Test Center

Don't know about the article you read but the cable barriers DID NOT prevent him from crossing in to oncoming traffic. If you click on my link above you will see that the coach ended up on it's side, with the truck, and it had slid all of the way across the oncoming lanes and stopped in the curb lane. It was fortunate that there was no traffic in the opposite direction at the time when the RV was sliding over.

Just saying what I read - wasn't there, don't care.

Found it by the way - it was actually a quote from the State Patrol, so take it for what it is worth.

Huffington Post

Just my own personal opinion, I don't think that the cable barrier was beneficial. Actually, I think that the cable barrier caused the motorhome to flip and go into oncoming traffic.


As I mentioned earlier, the guy driving the motorhome had it under control when he was in the middle of the median. The cable caught something under the motorhome causing it to flip.

If you have any interest, start the video and do a 'frame by frame' look, I think the barrier caused more problems than it helped.

Be safe out there!
MM.

I don't see him in control at all. He left the road and is veering left heading toward the opposing lanes. He did not turn that motorhome to the right. The cable turned that motorhome to the right. Had that cable not been there he would have continued in that left arc and gone right into the opposing lanes. Yes, the cable likely caused the RV to flip, but who knows what would have happened had he gone into the opposing lanes and maybe even on across and head first into a tree? That cable bled off a lot of speed. It did the job it was supposed to do.

[gemert]

msmith1199 wrote:

gemert wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:
I still think it's a case of driving too fast. And over reacting.

He was in left lane passing and going too fast. Had he been driving the speed limit a coach towing should have been in the right lane, it wouldn't have flipped over when he tried to go around around what ever was laying in the road.

Over reacted at high speeds. Just saying. We will never know what really happened from just the video though.

And how can you tell he was speeding or going too fast! You would have to know how fast the truck was going and that wasn't given. I have been certified as a police speed radar Operator in Florida since 1989. Part of that is being able to estimate speed of moving traffic within 3 MPH. From the cab of a truck though it is unlikely that anyone can accurately estimate either vehicles speed without knowing at least one of them. Give the driver a break! I usually drive at 62 regardless of the speed limit (you know what I mean) and I even pass a truck every now and then.

Actually, assuming the video plays at actual speed, it would not be too difficult to figure out the speed mathematically based on the time and the stripes in the road. You would have to know the distance between the stripes.

LOL, I'm a retired Navy Chief and State Cop not a rocket Scientist. I just hate convicting some poor slob here on this super fair and friendly forum when we don't have the required info to do so. My sense of fair play I guess.

[msmith1199]

Mile High wrote:

rgatijnet1 wrote:

Mile High wrote:
I can't find it now, but I read the article about that roll-over, and the couple were elderly and walked away with minor injuries. The Driver said it caught him completely off guard. The article also credited the cable barrier for preventing him from crossing into oncoming traffic.

Saw this video about how to handle a blowout - All good info, but I honestly don't think I would automatically react the way they recommend.

Nevada Test Center

Don't know about the article you read but the cable barriers DID NOT prevent him from crossing in to oncoming traffic. If you click on my link above you will see that the coach ended up on it's side, with the truck, and it had slid all of the way across the oncoming lanes and stopped in the curb lane. It was fortunate that there was no traffic in the opposite direction at the time when the RV was sliding over.

Just saying what I read - wasn't there, don't care.

Found it by the way - it was actually a quote from the State Patrol, so take it for what it is worth.

Huffington Post

You are correct. The cable didn't completely stop him from making to the other side, but it clearly slowed him way down, diverted his course, and caused a delay before he got into the other lanes. If you watch the video, you see that he was heading directly for two vehicles in the opposite lanes, a white SUV and then a red vehicle behind that. Had it not been for the cable he would have probably taken them out head on. But the cable turned the motorhome back to the right and then caused it to tip over and slide into the other lanes. Had there been other vehicles behind the first two, there is a good chance they would have had time to stop or drive around him, or at the very least it wouldn't have been as violent of a collision.

[msmith1199]

gemert wrote:

rockhillmanor wrote:
I still think it's a case of driving too fast. And over reacting.

He was in left lane passing and going too fast. Had he been driving the speed limit a coach towing should have been in the right lane, it wouldn't have flipped over when he tried to go around around what ever was laying in the road.

Over reacted at high speeds. Just saying. We will never know what really happened from just the video though.

And how can you tell he was speeding or going too fast! You would have to know how fast the truck was going and that wasn't given. I have been certified as a police speed radar Operator in Florida since 1989. Part of that is being able to estimate speed of moving traffic within 3 MPH. From the cab of a truck though it is unlikely that anyone can accurately estimate either vehicles speed without knowing at least one of them. Give the driver a break! I usually drive at 62 regardless of the speed limit (you know what I mean) and I even pass a truck every now and then.

Actually, assuming the video plays at actual speed, it would not be too difficult to figure out the speed mathematically based on the time and the stripes in the road. You would have to know the distance between the stripes.

[427435]

The short of it is that he was going too fast for his skill level and didn't counter steer correctly and quickly enough.

I blew a LF tire a couple of years ago doing 65. Kept it in my lane (barely) and brought it to a safe stop on the side of the interstate.

[wa8yxm]

If you search these forums, I believe there is a thread "Watching these videos may save your life" or something close to that.

Believe it.